Zynga's Wringer

[Gunner 51]

I can agree with Hopeless Bastard on this one. I do think that Zynga's little apps are a little more than a spam-fest. I've actually played Zynga's games for a while, got bored with the whole 'add-more-chums-for-progress' gameplay mechanic and have since moved on.

But Zynga's main problem asides from it's lack of animated gameplay, is it's spam. Why should other people have to block it's spam? If a player has a friends list that hits triple figures, that's a lot of spam.

What's needed to combat this is one of three things.

1.) Zynga stops the spam completely.
2.) Zynga changes it's achievement messages to "Do NOT tell all my friends about this."
3.) Facebook makes it easier to stop such spammy messages for those who do not know how to stop the spam.

 

[Delusibeta]

I dunno. Get Kongregate to implement a spamming system on Facebook? "I just scored 1,689m on Canabait, click here and try to beat it"?

Honestly, I think that the "social" gaming market is a bubble, and I think it's simply unsustainable. The Playfish execs were claiming that half of all active Facebook users play a "social" game a couple of weeks ago. I doubt that's true, and I imagine there's a large chunk of Facebook users cheesed off by the amount of spam "social" gaming in general generates. Hopeless B has a point: Zynga would not be in the position it is today if they did not actively encourage spamming.

And to anyone saying "it lowers the barrier to gaming", how hard is it to type "www.kongregate.com" or "www.newgrounds.com" into an address bar or a search engine?

I think that Facebook has not got into the position Google has, in which thinking that Google will go bust is pretty far-fetched. Google has internet search, map directions, a comparison website, mobile phones, e-mail, a blog provider, YouTube, a web browser and is developing an operating system, amongst hundreds of different things. If Google went bust, the technology industry in general would be severely affected. Facebook has, well... Facebook. If they went bust, people will move on.

 

[ASnogarD]

I have to laugh at these Farmville players, not in a offensive manner but because there are free games with much more depth, more scope for the player to use thier own ingenuity than Farmsville... and you dont even need to have ad's around.

I mean Dwarf Fortress , its a very hard to get into game with seriously basic graphics (ASCII or Tilesets), a nightmare of a UI and the learning curve of a overhanging cliff on a snowscape during avalanche season ... and having a mobile phone in the pocket with a LOUD call tune.

... but its one hell of a deep and gratifying game, the sheer scope in what you can do once you understand the underlying game world rules is immense.
Its easy to sit there for hours happily plotting out a massive fort, and even if things go wrong and you lose... its still fun, and for most players its just a chance to try out a new idea for a new fort.

 

[Gunner 51]

Dwarf Fortress to me is the other end of the scale. I found it just too hard to pick up and play. Zynga could go some way to redeem itself by remaking Dwarf Fortress with a decent user interface and graphics. (Though they should keep everything else intact.)

 

[Dogstile]

-snip-

Why is it that when anyone argues against you that you have to reference them sucking Zynga's proverbial penis?

Seriously, you're not screaming facts. Your experience with Zynga is very different to what my experience has been but that isn't the only experience.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

it seems after the March Madness thing, everyone here sees Zynga as some sort of Mafia, Warring with the actual gaming crowd.

It tends to do that after March Madness. Whenever some obscure company surpasses the popular ones, controversy pops up. Afterwards, we tend to study the companies themselves. We just need to wait a month and everyone will move on.

Note* Although, I'm wondering "what if Zynga had won?".

The whole gaming industry would have collapsed... not! This is the escapist, cool, but not the entire world of videogamers. Zynga is the most popular developer of games or whatever you want to call it and the outcome of the contest wouldnt change it. Chances are the vast majority of the gamers ignore its existence. But would definitly be traumatic for the escapistees.

 

[Dogstile]

-snip-

Your asking us to not take it personally?

Screw it, i'll leave it at that, i'm to busy laughing at that statement alone and I can't be arsed to argue anymore.

 

[hi0marc]

I dunno about anyone else but i voted for Zynga in MM to annoy the GTA and COD fanboys...

 

[XerxesQados]

And to anyone saying "it lowers the barrier to gaming", how hard is it to type "www.kongregate.com" or "www.newgrounds.com" into an address bar or a search engine?

Pretty hard. Remember, these are Facebook users. You can't assume that they know how to properly use a search engine, or what an address bar is [http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php#comments].

 

[Mistwraithe]

Major comprehension fail Hopeless Bastard. An appropriate name perhaps?

You are right on the money about the spam from Zynga games being the reason they have become so popular. That is a key part of the 'social model' aspect of their success that Shamus refers to. And as Shamus said in his article if someone applies that same model to a more entertaining game then they do indeed have a good chance of being successful.

Don't believe me? Refer to Everquest vs World of Warcraft. Everquest stuck too long to trying to force people to spend hours and hours camping spawn points etc. Make a game which has the same fun elements but removes excessive grind (without destroying the core of the game and revenue model) and the chances are you've just made a game which is going to be more attractive to the masses.

 

[w00tage]

I'll throw in a vote for "it's not the game that will keep people from fleeing Zynga's grasp, it's the players". Zynga has made it hurtful to your Facebook friends for you to quit their game, or even slow down. And your first friends on Facebook are typically your real friends and family, and their friends.

 

[Bat Vader]

You don't know that some of them won't move on to different games though. Out of all the people who play games made by Zynga I am pretty some of them have started playing other games not made by Zynga.

Yea, I do. Zygna's game design is "login daily to spam your friends with bullshit or lose all the shit you've been spamming your friends to get." The precious few people I've seen break out of zygna's hold have done so because for whatever reason (sudden development of a life) their entire farm died. They now believe all video games are a waste of time. They're right, of course. But the fact is the only way someone could move from farmville (for example) to another game is to give up their farm.

No, you don't know. Just because you know a few people who broke away from it does not mean they speak for the entire fan-base. To me it seems like you are generalizing.

Just because their farms died doesn't mean they will quit. They can just as easily make another one. They don't have to quit their farm, they could spend a hour a day looking after their farm and the next ten hours playing a video game. Considering that millions of people play games made by Zynga I am sure some of them play different games.

If this is such a big deal to you why do you keep reading the editorials on it?

 

[jmoore4ska]

I don't think ...lets just say 'some people,' are getting the point of this article. Shamus was saying that Zynga IS the wringer, and that players of Zynga only do so because they haven't been introduced to the "washing machine," i.e. another game which employs the reward structure of zynga's game with a more user friendly interface.

Shamus seemed obviously against Zynga in this article, so screaming (as its been so eloquently self-referred to) that this article was pro-Zynga just makes you look like you can't read or understand the whole article. He wants people to be introcuced to better 'casual' products in the medium that's convenient to them.

Also, maybe "Some people" should just take the hint that they got suspended for acting like a jerk, not for criticizing an article with their god-sent intelligence.

 

[Delusibeta]

And to anyone saying "it lowers the barrier to gaming", how hard is it to type "www.kongregate.com" or "www.newgrounds.com" into an address bar or a search engine?

Pretty hard. Remember, these are Facebook users. You can't assume that they know how to properly use a search engine, or what an address bar is [http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php#comments].

That is true. If you're looking for proof that there is a large quantities of people on the internet who don't read, there is your evidence. And the comments of any Zynga announcement of Facebook calls into question whether there is any potential in the "social" gaming market for "traditional" games (or maybe it's just a bad reflection on Zynga's fanbase).

 

[Cynical skeptic]

What no one seems to be understanding is there is nothing new, exceptional, improvable, or relevant about the social games business model. They've existed for almost as long as the internet (outwar) and have been pretty uniformly regarded as cancerous masses on the internet as a whole.

The only reason we're starting to see a surge in their popularity is a surge in popularity of two things, facebook and the internet in general. New arrivals to the internet have not been inoculated against the corrosive nature of spam and do not have the capacity to recognize "machines" (as calling them games is an insult to all games, and "products" is an insult to things actually produced) that exist only to get it's users to generate spam.

These people don't feel they have an inferior product, they feel they have the easiest product to use be rewarded for using. The people who play farmville actually feel they are actually sending gifts to their friends. They feel good about sending and receiving. They feel good about fertilizing and being fertilized. They'll never "move on" to a new/better/different game because even if someone managed to convince them they made a better "washing machine" they would still lose everything they had and would cease to help their neighbors with their farms.

Not to mention altering the structure of a zygna machine in any way would only impact it's success.

 

[IanPrice]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it as a contender yet, despite the fact that it's come up in this thread: World of Warcraft is the game that's done it.
- it has a game structure that rewards both extended play and many short sessions.
- players are encouraged to spread the game with more play time and in-game goodies.
- there is more depth to the game than Zynga's cheap tricks.

Admittedly, it's not the perfect game, but it is always evolving and has a very good mix of elements that clearly appeal to a variety of players - witness the 13 million or more people who are those players.

 

[Ravinak]

You could also go the Pokemon toute and allow people to customise the appearance of their crops.

O..M..G... Just give me Facebook Pokemon, that'll be awesome!

Not a crappy facebook pet clone, but an actual well developed version. I doubt Nintendo will develop anything other than for their own consoles though.. Still, there's money to be made.

 

[RootbeerJello]

I'd like to see Nitrome handle the art and music on a Farmville competitor. Because a. Nitrome is amazing, b. They would be able to perfect the aesthetic for a game like Farmville and c. They make the catchiest game music in the freaking world.