The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Piscian]

So apparently in an attempt to catch up to the insane Snyder fans, insane MCU fans have been sending Wyatt Russell death threats. Dude had to leave Instagram. Shame on these no life losers, Jesus Christ.

I tried to find the sources on this, from what I can tell it's horseshit to drum up clickbait news. The only thing I could find is that some trolls may or may not have posted death threats on a fan page that isn't him and has since been deleted. That is not to say he hasn't or he won't. The sad part of this is that we all can sit here and go "yeah I could see that.". I blame the youth /s. There's just so many people with semi-anonymous internet access these days this kinda stuff is just common place now. People can go online and say what they want with generally zero repercussions.

On Topic I think Wyatt is great. Whatever I don't like about the show Wyatt is just perfect. I almost believe they actually put some comic writers or editors in the casting room for this stuff and someone went "This dude is totally him. That's our US Agent." I know for a while there was a consortium where Marvel artists, writers and editors had input into casting and filming, but I don't know where that stands after the Joss wedon revolt. I also think hiring GSP as batroc the leaper was brilliant especially considering he's just there to be a C-lister.

I'm not sure how I feel yet about karli morgenthau. I thought Eryn was gonna be playing some version of Sin, Red Skulls daughter and crossbones girlfriend from the comics. I'll go with whatever works on screen, I'm not a comicbook purist, but I'll be a little giddy if she turns out to be totally dagnasty evil.

 

[SilentPony]

Also, Rey was already doing a marvelous job as fanboy hate lightning rod.

Yeah she was oddly hated. Like I didn't like her character arc for sure, but that's bad writing, not her character's fault.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I'm very confused, is Bucky meant to be a super soldier or not? I had always assume he just had a metal arm and fascist martial arts. If he is a super soldier, that makes him constantly getting his ass kicked even more annoying. The man was like an unstoppable force of nature in the Winter Soldier, lately he's feeling like a regular shmuck.

Anyway the latest ep was pretty good. I understand the complaints that the pacing was off, and the sets were more than a little reused, but I didn't mind so much. US Agent is definitely unlikeable, but I never feel like he's some despicable asshole. Zemo is still such a manipulative bastard, it really works.

 

[Gordon_4]

I'm very confused, is Bucky meant to be a super soldier or not? I had always assume he just had a metal arm and fascist martial arts. If he is a super soldier, that makes him constantly getting his ass kicked even more annoying. The man was like an unstoppable force of nature in the Winter Soldier, lately he's feeling like a regular shmuck.

Anyway the latest ep was pretty good. I understand the complaints that the pacing was off, and the sets were more than a little reused, but I didn't mind so much. US Agent is definitely unlikeable, but I never feel like he's some despicable asshole. Zemo is still such a manipulative bastard, it really works.

Bucky had some variant of the serum injected into him either before he was rescued by Steve in the First Avenger or after he was recovered by Arnim Zola for the Winter Soldier program. It is a little unclear how good that variant was since he can give Steve a run for his money. And yes the Winter Soldier was an unstoppable force of nature. Because he was an entirely instinctive and reactive lobotomised slave who followed his mission. It bears repeating from episode one but in his own words “My name is James Barnes, I’m not the Winter Soldier anymore”. If this is about his efforts against the Dora Milaji, well frankly it’s not like he wanted to help Walker and Ayo is the one who helped him deprogram; she is one of the last people on this Earth he will fight with any kind of conviction.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Bucky had some variant of the serum injected into him either before he was rescued by Steve in the First Avenger or after he was recovered by Arnim Zola for the Winter Soldier program.

Yeah I just looked up the wiki and it seems the green goop he was surrounded with in the first Cap movie was a serum variant. I still find it weird though. They always made it look like Bucky could keep up with Cap just because of his metal arm and Cap's reluctance to beat the shit out of his best friend. To have never mentioned it explicitly until years later is confusing. Especially when Zemo doesn't seem to have a problem with Bucky's powers, as far as I can remember.

And yes the Winter Soldier was an unstoppable force of nature. Because he was an entirely instinctive and reactive lobotomised slave who followed his mission. It bears repeating from episode one but in his own words “My name is James Barnes, I’m not the Winter Soldier anymore”.

I didn't mind the Dora Milaje stuff. His heart clearly wasn't in it. But this whole show so far Bucky has had like... two wins. Three I guess if you count the flashback. The guy survived two encounters with alien armies, you'd think he could handle a few super "soldiers" and some Madripoor thugs. The directors promised "John Wick" action that we have yet to see.

 

[sXeth]

Bucky had some variant of the serum injected into him either before he was rescued by Steve in the First Avenger or after he was recovered by Arnim Zola for the Winter Soldier program. It is a little unclear how good that variant was since he can give Steve a run for his money. And yes the Winter Soldier was an unstoppable force of nature. Because he was an entirely instinctive and reactive lobotomised slave who followed his mission. It bears repeating from episode one but in his own words “My name is James Barnes, I’m not the Winter Soldier anymore”. If this is about his efforts against the Dora Milaji, well frankly it’s not like he wanted to help Walker and Ayo is the one who helped him deprogram; she is one of the last people on this Earth he will fight with any kind of conviction.

Comics wise (because the MCU isn't super clear), he's just one of those "peak physical condition" humans a la Batman, Green Arrow, Black Widow, et al. And a soldier/assassin with nearly a century of experience and spec ops training. Arm gives him super-powers, and when he was Cap in the comics he got an enhanced suit with added powers.
]

So he'd be a top-tier human character for most situations, with a massive experience edge. But someone like Cap with an enhancement beyond human and equal experience would outmatch him, along with most supers.


And yeah, all the big hits he takes to not-his-arm in Winter Soldier/Civil War he really shouldn't handle as well as he does. Unless you handwave that the arm was pumping him with some kind of healing factor juice.


Now, in the show itself, he's also suffering PTSD/Depression, so there's potential that he's just mentally not engaged enough to put his talents to use. And his commitment to fighting any given opponent.

 

[SilentPony]

I like this episode. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, but did Ayo and Bucky have a little chemistry? She was soft and kind in the deprogramming scene, and later calls him James. Not Bucky, Buck or Sergeant Barnes, but James.
Walker going blood drunk was cool to see. The way he wobbled and swayed as if drunk on anger was a very nice touch.

As far as Bucky being a super soldier they established in Winter Soldier he has a variant of the serum, he's always running fast, ripping doors off hinges, jumping from great heights, and even in Civil War Steve and him openly say there are other super soldier assassins just like Bucky that need to be stopped.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, but did Ayo and Bucky have a little chemistry? She was soft and kind in the deprogramming scene, and later calls him James.

Ayo is either lesbian or bi in the comics, so I can see people getting real pissed if she and Bucky have a thing. I think there was also a scene that was written out of Black Panther that showed her relationship with a fellow Dora Milaje? I personally wouldn't mind, Buck needs a win and it would make sense, but I doubt we'll see it happen.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

An interesting video that tries to answer why vaccines were randomly namedropped in episode 2. Seems like Wandavision might not have been only MCU show affected by the pandemic.

 

[SilentPony]

Ayo is either lesbian or bi in the comics, so I can see people getting real pissed if she and Bucky have a thing. I think there was also a scene that was written out of Black Panther that showed her relationship with a fellow Dora Milaje? I personally wouldn't mind, Buck needs a win and it would make sense, but I doubt we'll see it happen.

I think its fair to assume Marvel isn't following comic book pairings. Bucky hooks up with Natasha, as does Steve, and Clint, and Thor that one time, and she and Tony make a porno, and Steve hooks up with Sharon, and Tchala marries Storm of the Xmen, and Peter Parker sleeps with just about every single female superhero in New York. Comic pairings are like Drawn Together where every character as fucked every other character at least once.
Bucky and Ayo will come down to the writers finding a good take, and if the actors have chemistry themselves. I agree Bucky needs a win 'cause he's the whipping boy of the MCU and just gets the shit kicked out of him instead of character growth, like Lara Croft, so I can see Marvel writers letting him be happy for a movie or two.

 

[Piscian]

An interesting video that tries to answer why vaccines were randomly namedropped in episode 2. Seems like Wandavision might not have been only MCU show affected by the pandemic.

Man I totally believe it. It really would be a much more compelling back story for the flag smashers. Even their name would make more sense. They're not much a terrorist threat stealing food and supplies here and there.

 

[Gordon_4]

I like this episode. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, but did Ayo and Bucky have a little chemistry? She was soft and kind in the deprogramming scene, and later calls him James. Not Bucky, Buck or Sergeant Barnes, but James.

Yes. I too thought this exact thing and would love it to be true.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Bit of a slow episode. Not bad at all, but very slow. Don't really have much to say honestly, it was just a lot of tying up loose ends.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Some spoiler thoughts:

Spoiler

God Karli just really is not relatable at all. Maybe it's the serum, or the supposed missing pandemic plotline, but damn I've never rooted for her one bit. The idea that she has this many varied Flag Smasher followers is both stupid and unearned. The scene in Central Park was just cringe.

It just occurred to me that we won't really be seeing much of Sam as Captain America, and more specifically, how the world will react to him. I guess they're keeping that for the movies.

Bucky flirting with Sara was funny but also really weird. Don't date your coworkers but definitely don't date their family.

I feel really bad for Walker, even if I think his turn to the dark side was a little too quick and too drastic. Man's just a broken product of a broken system. I'm hoping he doesn't become a straight up villain, the MCU needs more anti-heroes.

Looks like Sharon is either the Power Broker or is at the very least not who she says she is. Interesting take.

Bit of an underwhelming end for Zemo. But at least they answered my question of why he doesn't seem to have a problem with Bucky's existence.

Whoever directed this had a weird obsessions with slow mo zoom closeups. Looked like a really crappy effect.

 

[SilentPony]

Watched it, really liked it.

Spoiler

I thought it was the strongest episode yet, at least in terms of plot and covering ground. Fight scene with Walker was good, and by the end I do sorta feel bad for him. He's more like Bucky than Steve, in that he's clearly a PTSD riddled vet with nightmares who needs therapy, not a shield and super soldier serum.

Lots of metaphors. Bucky drops the shield in Sam's lap and now he sees its covered in blood and its legacy is tarnished. Then later Sam and Bucky are literally, and metaphorically putting Sam's life back together.

The thing with Bucky and Sara was...weird? I guess between her and Ayo, Bucky has a type. Sure, whatever, I doubt we'll see Sara again. And the "stay out of Wakanda for awhile" is a nice way of saying the White Wolf will be in Black Panther 2.

Zemo was as expected. They weren't going to kill him, he's needed for Avengers 5/Black Panther 2.

But lets talk about the """big""" cameo. Holy fuck was that stupid. Julia Louis-Dreyfus?! She's the "grounded" character we want to see interacting with Thor? She was just playing Elaine in some Seinfeld episode were she's pretending to be someone else. Also I'm calling bullshit she's Nick Fury's ex-wife. She wasn't sinister, or intelligent or shrewd, she was a parody of that. I would have cast her in an SNL skit making fun of FaWS. Total miscast, maybe the worst cast person in the MCU, and that's including they wasted Karl Urban on a one-shot joke character in Thor 3.

Loved the scenes with Isiah Bradly. I was kinda hoping he had his version of the shield to show Sam, but alas. I'm hoping they don't just let him go.

 

[Piscian]

I enjoyed this episode quite a bit more than the last couple. I think the dialog was quite a bit snappier and to the point. I think this series main flagsmasher plotline is a bit of rambling failwhale but this episodes characters moments were much stronger. It gives much better context around the dispute over the shield. I think isiahs story muddies the waters, in a good way. I felt having two different rocky montages in the same episode was too much and didn't add much to the story when you're like "umm falcon was already in shape?" It gets the point across but a bit clumsily. Like I'm still confused did they work on the boat for a day? Weeks? How long did he train? Very confusing.

I have a feeling no matter what they do this series is gonna leave me a tad lukewarm on it. There was a lot I didn't like about wandavision, but I felt it was much more focused and consistent. Maybe this last one will turn it around, well see. I forget many side storylines this has had so far? 5, 6? I had to think for a second what purpose the madripor episode even served.

 

[laggyteabag]

Im enjoying it, though it is far from perfect.

Falcon and Bucky have great chemistry together, and it is nice to explore their relationship further from what we saw in Civil War.

I like John Walker being an "evil" or at least more vicious Captain America, but I do wish that the show tried at least a little bit to get us to like him, before they made him go all murderous.

I love seeing more of these characters lives outside of being Avengers. Sam, his family, and the boat are just cute.

Isiah's speech in the last episode was just powerful. I know that there are a lot of people screaming "Woke!" at the screen for this, but I really enjoyed the show's character's conflicting perspectives on a black Captain America.

I feel like Zemo and Sharon Carter have been hilariously underused, for being title card characters.

I care very little for the Flagsmashers. They serve their purpose as plot motivators, but every time we spend a scene with them, it just doesn't work for me.

 

[Hades]

I don't really understand how they got the flag smashers so wrong. With many current world problems like nationalism and refugee crises being solved only to be kinda maliciously brought back one the Blip was stopped they should be way more sympathetic then they currently are. There's even a scene of UN diplomats maliciously conspiring to force back migrants they previously accepted, by force of need be and I still feel very little for Karli and co.

No one seems to think the Flag Smashers are very likable or interesting, yet with their motivations and the world building surrounding it should have been incredibly easy to make them well received.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I don't really understand how they got the flag smashers so wrong.

It's starting to look like it's Covid's fault. Even if the missing pandemic plotline turns out to be false, I think it's pretty clear the show was much shorter than it was supposed to be. It was delayed after all, and by episode 5 of 6, it feels like we're only halfway through the story.

 

[Piscian]

Wyatt acknowledged the death threats on Seth though he goes on to say he's happily totally anonymous in public. He seems pretty ecstatic overall to be playing the role