National Guard called into Minneapolis

[SupahEwok]

And yet no one seemed to care about it in this thread until I brought it up.

I've been thinking about it for a couple of days, but I'm not involved with the riots. I do think this is going to kick off the second wave the scientists were fearing in a big way, and there's really no excuse for it. At this time, the point has been made, if there ever was a legitimate point to be made.

 

[Breakdown]

In the UK there's talk of a BLM day of action to protest about the coronavirus causing disproportionately high BAME deaths.

I get the sentiment, but I'm not that a mass public protest is the best idea in the world at this point.

 

[lil devils x]

And yet no one seemed to care about it in this thread until I brought it up.

What is the point in pointing out the obvious? There isn't anyone here who has not seen the footage of some people in masks due to COVID 19 and some people not whether it was because they didn't have access to them or not. We talk about COVID 19 in the pandemic thread and the racial violence in the racial violence thread. That does not discount either as being not as important, it just helps further discussion on both issues without distracting from the importance of both by keeping the conversations on topic. We have said plenty on both issues in their perspective threads. Talking about it here would just be 'red herringing' away from the focus of this issue. Feel free to discuss it in any one of our pandemic threads as we already addressed the large gatherings threat there already. Claiming people don't care is false. We have plenty of pages proving otherwise in the pandemic threads.

 

[lil devils x]

In the UK there's talk of a BLM day of action to protest about the coronavirus causing disproportionately high BAME deaths.

I get the sentiment, but I'm not that a mass public protest is the best idea in the world at this point.

While I agree the timing is awful, Trump and GOP states in the US forcing workers into unsafe working conditions presently without protecting them was ALREADY disproportionately impacting minority workers. Forcing primarily minorities back into the meat packing plants, factories and removing their benefits if they do not was already putting them at higher risk than even the protests due to the hundreds of verified infections in these plants. Many of these minority communities never had the luxury to quarantine in the first place as they were already considered essential workers and were not given PPE and were already forcefully exposed. For them, this changes nothing.

 

[lil devils x]

I've been thinking about it for a couple of days, but I'm not involved with the riots. I do think this is going to kick off the second wave the scientists were fearing in a big way, and there's really no excuse for it. At this time, the point has been made, if there ever was a legitimate point to be made.

You think that there isn't a point to be made? They made it pretty clear what needs to be done here.

National Guard called into Minneapolis

I'm for rioting until that sick power tripping murderer is locked up instead of the coincidentally black reporter on the scene of the protest. They will keep doing this shit as long as they keep getting away with it. What power do you really have when politeness is either ignored, dismissed as...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

We even have ways to do that, they are just being ignored.

National Guard called into Minneapolis

I'm for rioting until that sick power tripping murderer is locked up instead of the coincidentally black reporter on the scene of the protest. They will keep doing this shit as long as they keep getting away with it. What power do you really have when politeness is either ignored, dismissed as...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

 

[SupahEwok]

You don't think that there isn't a point to be made? The made it pretty clear what needs to be done here.

I don't think there is a point to be made through the destruction of small businesses, churches, and potentially museums and monuments (if you think I'm exagerrating, last night somebody set fire in the basement of a church across the street from the Whitehouse, in the Washington Mall, which contains the Smithsonian, full of destructible artifacts that will never be replaced). I don't think there is a point to be made in flouting our (very loose by global standards) restrictions on social gatherings for restraining the spread of a pandemic. The deaths and costs of that alone are going to be catastrophic.

I suppose I should say, whatever point was being made, has been made by now, and continued destruction and injury isn't going to make the point any more than what it is already.

The protests have gotten out of hand. I'm not excusing the police, but in the struggle of protesters vs police, people in the middle are being harmed.

I can understand the feelings beyond the riots, without accepting the riots. And I don't care for all the "it's not really the protestors setting fire to shit" excuses. If they're providing camouflage for arsonists, disperse to dispel the camouflage.

 

[lil devils x]

I don't think there is a point to be made through the destruction of small businesses, churches, and potentially museums and monuments (if you think I'm exagerrating, last night somebody set fire in the basement of a church across the street from the Whitehouse, in the Washington Mall, which contains the Smithsonian, full of destructible artifacts that will never be replaced). I don't think there is a point to be made in flouting our (very loose by global standards) restrictions on social gatherings for restraining the spread of a pandemic. The deaths and costs of that alone are going to be catastrophic.

I suppose I should say, whatever point was being made, has been made by now, and continued destruction and injury isn't going to make the point any more than what it is already.

The protests have gotten out of hand. I'm not excusing the police, but in the struggle of protesters vs police, people in the middle are being harmed.

I can understand the feelings beyond the riots, without accepting the riots. And I don't care for all the "it's not really the protestors setting fire to shit" excuses. If they're providing camouflage for arsonists, disperse to dispel the camouflage.

I don't think you are exaggerating at all, I have seen it too. We cannot group everyone being the same group however. Just like hammer guy had his own agenda, we have had opportunists at every level doing their own thing here. I also do not think the protesters should be bullied into stopping their protests by people like hammer guy or anyone else for that matter. We have seen ample evidence of protesters stopping this behavior themselves, but they should not be expected to be able to stop it all. By claiming every time the protesters try to be heard, these other guys are going to use the opportunity to do bad shit so they should never protest again because this will happen every time, it is just allowing them to be silenced and never heard at all. By allowing the criminals to silence the protesters, you are allowing them to be bullied into suffering quietly, nothing changing and them remaining unheard.

As for the pandemic, the reality for minority communities is they were never allowed to quarantine, they had to go to work unprotected already due to Trump failing to provide them with PPE. Sadly, due to the US government incompetent response these communities were never protected in the first place and sadly it does not change much for them. YES, this will cause spikes and deaths, but the way they view it, it was already intentionally being done to them and no one was trying to protect them, why should they then worry about protecting everyone else? If Trump had actually made an effort to protect their communities, their level of care here would be greater than it is. Tbh, it would be nice to see PPE being distributed to protesters, but that is unlikely to happen in our current political climate as Trump is the only one with the resources to be able to do that.

 

[SupahEwok]

I don't think you are exaggerating at all, I have seen it too. We cannot group everyone being the same group however. Just like hammer guy had his own agenda, we have had opportunists at every level doing their own thing here. I also do not think the protesters should be bullied into stopping their protests by people like hammer guy or anyone else for that matter. We have seen ample evidence of protesters stopping this behavior themselves, but they should not be expected to be able to stop it all. By claiming every time the protesters try to be heard, these other guys are going to use the opportunity to do bad shit so they should never protest again because this will happen every time, it is just allowing them to be silenced and never heard at all. By allowing the criminals to silence the protesters, you are allowing them to be bullied into suffering quietly, nothing changing and them remaining unheard.

As for the pandemic, the reality for minority communities is they were never allowed to quarantine, they had to go to work unprotected already due to Trump failing to provide them with PPE. Sadly, due to the US government incompetent response these communities were never protected in the first place and sadly it does not change much for them. YES, this will cause spikes and deaths, but the way they view it, it was already intentionally being done to them and no one was trying to protect them, why should they then worry about protecting everyone else? If Trump had actually made an effort to protect their communities, their level of care here would be greater than it is.

They have been heard. They have absolutely been heard, by every single person in this country. Whatever future action is taken has been set in motion by this point. Regardless of if that action will be liberating or disappointing, more fires are not going to change it towards the positive. Therefore, its time to stop sacrificing people.

Hell, I've heard Trump has been driven into the presidential bunker. If the DC riots spread a few more blocks and put the Capitol in danger, the Senate will probably stop convening, and they'll delay debating the HEROES Act for coronavirus relief. LA has pulled some of its coronavirus testing, and regardless of what that tweet in this thread said about it being to "punish" protestors, I agree with pulling out nurses and saving limited test kits if their safety from either rioters or police brutality cannot be guaranteed.

There is a cost to the riots that go beyond injuries and death from thrown rocks and rubber bullets. Beyond property damage and vented rage and lost work time. We're at the point that more riots mean more of this cost for no gain to the cause being protested for.

 

[lil devils x]

They have been heard. They have absolutely been heard, by every single person in this country. Whatever future action is taken has been set in motion by this point. Regardless of if that action will be liberating or disappointing, more fires are not going to change it towards the positive. Therefore, its time to stop sacrificing people.

Hell, I've heard Trump has been driven into the presidential bunker. If the DC riots spread a few more blocks and put the Capitol in danger, the Senate will probably stop convening, and they'll delay debating the HEROES Act for coronavirus relief. LA has pulled some of its coronavirus testing, and regardless of what that tweet in this thread said about it being to "punish" protestors, I agree with pulling out nurses and saving limited test kits if their safety from either rioters or police brutality cannot be guaranteed.

There is a cost to the riots that go beyond injuries and death from thrown rocks and rubber bullets. Beyond property damage and vented rage and lost work time. We're at the point that more riots mean more of this cost for no gain to the cause being protested for.

It isn't about FUTURE action, they expressed that pretty clearly. They want action now. They have not even arrested all 4 officers yet. If this had been anyone else in the community, they would have been arrested already. The police have still been shown repeatedly all over the nation using excessive force against citizens DURING a protest about police violence against the community. They have stated that they will have peace when they receive justice. Justice has not yet been served. Expecting them to stand down when every single time they have stood down in the past, nothing ever changed. They are always told that " it will happen" and then NOTHING happens.

As I linked from the original protest above, the woman speaking who stated they want a National Emergency declaration on racism declared, she ALSO brought up a good point about the vulnerable in her community not having access to PPE, that while they have testing in wealthy neighborhoods, they did not provide resting for minority residents EVEN when they have been hit so much harder. This has been with all resources at all levels. Trump has said NOTHING about helping resolve this, as he has no intention of doing so. Him cowardly running to his bunker while calling for more violence against the people isn't help reassure anyone that things will actually change this time. People have to see the change for them to believe it. Pretending like they are doing something and then going about business as usual isn't enough here.

Trump hasn't changed his position, why should they? He is the primary obstacle blocking real police reform on the federal level, yet he is too stupid to see that he is part the problem here instead of being part of the solution. We cannot have national guidelines to protect communities across the US without the Federal government actually making it their agenda to do so.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

What is the point in pointing out the obvious? There isn't anyone here who has not seen the footage of some people in masks due to COVID 19 and some people not whether it was because they didn't have access to them or not. We talk about COVID 19 in the pandemic thread and the racial violence in the racial violence thread. That does not discount either as being not as important, it just helps further discussion on both issues without distracting from the importance of both by keeping the conversations on topic. We have said plenty on both issues in their perspective threads. Talking about it here would just be 'red herringing' away from the focus of this issue. Feel free to discuss it in any one of our pandemic threads as we already addressed the large gatherings threat there already. Claiming people don't care is false. We have plenty of pages proving otherwise in the pandemic threads.

How is it a red herring when the lives of the protestors and their families are at stake? Shouldn't you be more concerned about them dieing so the authorities ultimately don't have to acquiesce to a group of people that no longer exist?

People are tired, Specter.

They are worn out. They are hurt, angry, and confused. These are people who have lost jobs, family members, humanity and comfort, and sadly hope. As much as it hurts me to condense a man's life like this, Floyd was a spark that landed on a dry haystack in the middle of a forest.

Not only has the African American community been hit the hardest during Covid, health wise and job wise, we're now reminded that our lives aren't worth a possibly fake 20 dollar bill.

And literally the next day we see a woman fabricating a story in order to try to threaten a black man after he asked her to put a leash on her dog.

People are broken at this time. Their anger is overriding their sense of.. well, anything else. It just seems to never stop.

So are you saying that it's "better to burn out than fade away" as it were? That instead of slowly dieing to Covid that they should try to make a stand? I suppose I can understand that train of logic then.

I've been thinking about it for a couple of days, but I'm not involved with the riots. I do think this is going to kick off the second wave the scientists were fearing in a big way, and there's really no excuse for it.

This is my concern as well, that ultimately more pain and suffering will come out of this than is solved.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Cells still have leadership, Antifa has an absurdly flat hierarchy, literally anyone can and does claim membership since it’s less a group than a way of approaching activism. There is no “boss” to most groups, though some more focused organizations may have a defined structure.
I’ve also never heard of this happening in Portland, where they do a half dozen or more counter-protests a year. If this were a regular thing, Andy Ngo would’ve been posting about it constantly for years and I’d have encountered a ton of attempts to debunk it. So no, I do not even slightly believe this is a regular thing for Antifa or they’d bring this up every time rather than bike lock guy. Occam’s Razor.

Only if Andy could footage of it before it kicked off really.

I've seen plenty of attempts to debunk the bricks etc.

99% of them from AntiFA related accounts or Anarchist related accounts which seems far more suspicious to me they're the main ones doing it.


It could entirely not be AntiFA and just be one of the other Black Block organisations that include AntiFA are part of a number of groups.

Right, and several people were tussling over the flag, after being struck in the head he just goes down to the foetal position and is left alone. Important thing is that several people were involved, and he was hit lightly on the back (several times, didn't respond) before being hit on the head. No blood, nothing, dude just lets go and assumes the position after being repeatedly told to let go of a flag (which again, as conflicts I've had to describe go, is pretty dumb and a pretty weak display of supposed 'antifa violence').

All this tells me that you've never been in a fight. I have and I've worked security for four years, and I've been in situations with antifa, so I wager I know more about assault than you do. The types of weapon and the types of force produced are nowhere near in scale to the equivalence that is brought up to antifa in the Oregon video.

Also read what I said above about edgelords joining in and the structure of protests. All the footage in that video (leaving aside the issues it has and that it's non-current with the outcome of the situation) conforms to what I had written about that earlier in the thread. Plus, he got put on probation and had most of his charges dropped, he didn't even try to proclaim innocence, and the medical records as to who claimed injury are scattered. Only report on that that I could find was citing 'The Sacramento Bee', with no link.

Eric Clanton takes 3-year probation deal in Berkeley rally bike lock assault case

A college professor charged with four counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon has taken a deal resulting in three years of probation, court records reveal.

www.berkeleyside.com

Former college professor takes 3-year probation plea deal in assault case

Clanton pleaded no contest to one misdemeanor charge, but his charges of four counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon were dismissed.

www.dailycal.org

This aside also being totally tangential to the fact that the police are playing cowboy in America and evidently have been for years, but don't let that distract you from a maniac with a bike lock and a flag-battle to prove that it's antifa simultaneously escalating it everywhere, not decades of resentment, alienation and discrimination spilling out during a global pandemic where the government failed its people and where americans are hurtling towards an economic recession.

Except

1) It was his flag

2) He was actually on the side of and walking with the protesters so on their side which makes it all the more stupid said goons decided to jump him when he's literally supporting the same supposed cause they were. If they're willing to do that to people on their side the fact Eric Clanton was willing to try and brain a peaceful person trying to separate the two sides isn't surprising nor would further escalation.

You know as a former builder there being bricks everywhere in a big city isn't weird to me. Big cities simply have so many structures in them that they are always full of construction. There's always some building that needs work.

It never stops. As a Tasmanian whenever I came over to Melbourne from my tiny island to a immense city like Melbourne I always felt surprised at the sheer amount of construction there was forever scaffolding, cranes and high vis vests everywhere and by the time one project finished there was always more.

I wonder if this 'where are the bricks from?' stuff is simply coming from people who do not understand what the endless construction of a big city is like.

Thing is as other videos have said there are often no building works going on.

Also as one of the other videos shows there were people in a car driving round handing out bricks.

I find it interesting that Covid apparently no longer exists as a concern in these particular giant gatherings of people where as a couple weeks ago it was seen as evil...

sssshhhhh that's an inconvenient truth yet to hit which Trump will be blamed for.

That makes no sense. He was in Florida at the time and the protesters knew that. Second, What did it 'work' to do except show the world how stupid America is to have elected this idiot and should feel ashamed and humiliated as a nation to have allowed this to happen? The only thing Trump accomplished here was embarrassing and disgracing his nation and people.

If his intent was to escalate and make this worse, goal accomplished, however, as president his goal should have been to lead his nation through healing and instead continues to prove his incompetence to the job he is so blatantly unfit to do.

What if people don't want to heal but want to be mad?

Some people have taken this from healing over a senseless death caused by a police officer to rage against the entire system (not merely the justice system and police).

It's almost impossible to prove that murder was the intent.

They likely have a shot with 4th degree which is death by negligence but 1st degree requires premeditation.

"Violence is inherent to human nature" is an excuse people make when they want to justify violence.

Humanity likes to think it is so far beyond the animals we once were but we really are not.


Even the most peaceful seeming animals will fight. Giraffes fighting is rather brutal to see for example.

This idea that individual human beings are violent and dangerous, that they can't be trusted to do things for themselves, that they need a firm guiding hand to ensure their natural wickedness is kept in check, is one we've heard before. In reality, there is no evidence that most people are inherently violent, and the violence we do see in our society mostly serves a clear motivation or purpose, which generally has nothing to do with human nature. This is one of those times.

Thing is we need the systems in place for when things do happen. When inhibitions are dropped. When the civilised idea drop and the "lizard brain" takes over so to speak.

If you don't think humanity can turn violent easily you've not seen some of the bar brawls break out I have lol. Or run into the kinds of people who like to fight for the sake of picking a fight.

..And they have been met with violence. They have been accused of violence, or even outright framed for violence. They have been accused of being too shrill, of making their demands too stridently, of causing too much disruption, of violating the peace. They have been told it is not the time. They have been told this is not what Martin Luther King would have wanted. They have endured vacuous platitudes about the need for forgiveness and reconciliation and love.

What did you expect? We do not live in a fair society. You do not even want to live in a fair society.

No we don't live in a fair society. The thing often is the balances of unfairness to one group can balance out with unfairness to others in other aspects a lot of the time.

It could be replaced with a better, more equitable, less destructive form of violence.

People are objecting to non lethal rounds being used (not merely the miss use of them). This should be seen as the Police trying somewhat.

In the UK there's talk of a BLM day of action to protest about the coronavirus causing disproportionately high BAME deaths.

I get the sentiment, but I'm not that a mass public protest is the best idea in the world at this point.

yeh that seems like a self defeating move.

I mean is the plan to demand the Coronavirus itself support equality more?

 

[SupahEwok]

It isn't about FUTURE action, they expressed that pretty clearly. They want action now. They have not even arrested all 4 officers yet. If this had been anyone else in the community, they would have been arrested already. The police have still been shown repeatedly all over the nation using excessive force against citizens DURING a protest about police violence against the community. They have stated that they will have peace when they receive justice. Justice has not yet been served. Expecting them to stand down when every single time they have stood down in the past, nothing ever changed. They are always told that " it will happen" and then NOTHING happens.

As I linked from the original protest above, the woman speaking who stated they want a National Emergency declaration on racism declared, she ALSO brought up a good point about the vulnerable in her community not having access to PPE, that while they have testing in wealthy neighborhoods, they did not provide resting for minority residents EVEN when they have been hit so much harder. This has been with all resources at all levels. Trump has said NOTHING about helping resolve this, as he has no intention of doing so. Him cowardly running to his bunker while calling for more violence against the people isn't help reassure anyone that things will actually change this time. People have to see the change for them to believe it. Pretending like they are doing something and then going about business as usual isn't enough here.

Trump hasn't changed his position, why should they? He is the primary obstacle blocking real police reform on the federal level, yet he is too stupid to see that he is part the problem here instead of being part of the solution. We cannot have national guidelines to protect communities across the US without the Federal government actually making it their agenda to do so.

What are they going to do, continue to riot for months? Years? It's as you said, Trump has no intention of some kind of national reform. And it's not even just because he doesn't care. Law enforcement is de-centralized and most responsibility and policies take place on state and local levels. They are not under direct Executive purview like the FBI is, by virtue of the 10th Amendment which reserves any powers not mentioned in the Constitution to the states. To change all of that, it will take a Congressional bill and maybe an Amendment, depending on exactly the change you want to see. That is a process of months at minimum. Just going to keep burning stuff that whole time? Just going to keep passing the virus around all that time?

That's not even going into the feasibility of the initial demands; you can't declare National Emergencies against "racism". And why would they even want that? Emergency declarations are to give the Executive emergency powers in a crisis to circumvent legislature. Why would left-wing protestors want Trump to have more power to do as he wills, which in this case would be reforming the country's policing as he sees fit? It's just a feel-good bullet point that sounds impressive while being functionally impossible to fulfill so that they can claim that their conditions are being unfulfilled indefinitely.

And there probably isn't anything to arrest those police officers for. There was a Supreme Court decision in 2005ish that said that police are not legally obligated to help people in emergencies. The worst they could be charged with is gross criminal negligence (from my reading), but the standing SC decision clears them of that (again, by my reading). Therefore, legislative and judicial reform would be necessary to charge officers who did what they did, something that will take months at minimum to go through the system.

As I said IF ACTION WILL BE TAKEN, it has been set in motion by now, through local, state, and national legislatures, at the very least as inspiration and ideas. If it won't be taken, that will not change with more riots. There'll only be more covid-19, more damage, more death.

 

[lil devils x]

How is it a red herring when the lives of the protestors and their families are at stake? Shouldn't you be more concerned about them dieing so the authorities ultimately don't have to acquiesce to a group of people that no longer exist?



So are you saying that it's "better to burn out than fade away" as it were? That instead of slowly dieing to Covid that they should try to make a stand? I suppose I can understand that train of logic then.



This is my concern as well, that ultimately more pain and suffering will come out of this than is solved.

It is a red herring claiming that no one cared when they do, just discussing it here instead of the thread dedicated to COVID-19 would be a red herring to change the topic of what they are protesting about. Exactly as you are doing here, if you want to discuss the pandemic, we have a dedicated thread for that.
1)Why should I care about one issue MORE than the other when we should care about both issues equally?
2)I just pointed out that they were already not being protected and many at the same risk of dying here as they were before due to how they have been treated DURING the shut down. You do realize that the minority community was having a much higher exposure rate already due to being forced to work without access to PPE during the shutdown right? Many of the people out there protesting right now have been working in high risk environments this entire time unprotected because Trump refused to provide PPE to essential workers. Saying it is okay for them to be forced to do that unprotected but then not stand up for their rights, is a bit hypocritical.
3) To keep them safer, like I stated above, Trump should be providing them with PPE, he has not yet done that either yet now has he? He is willing to spend more on military action against the people to intentionally harm them rather than on providing them with PPE to keep them safe.

I agree that this will cause unnecessary pain and suffering, but instead of doing anything to make it stop sooner or help keep people safer, they have yet to:
1) Arrest all 4 officers responsible for Floyd's death.
2) Have Trump declare a national emergency on racism.
3) Trump promising to dedicate more resources to deescalation retraining police across the nation, using violence as a last resort rather than the go to action.
4) Provide the general public with PPE
5) Increased vetting and transparency on Police hiring and disciplinary records stopping the cycle of keeping bad cops in power to cause harm.

If these things haven't been done yet, then the government is still not doing what is required of them to make this end faster or keep people safe.

 

[ObsidianJones]

They have been heard. They have absolutely been heard, by every single person in this country. Whatever future action is taken has been set in motion by this point. Regardless of if that action will be liberating or disappointing, more fires are not going to change it towards the positive. Therefore, its time to stop sacrificing people.

Hell, I've heard Trump has been driven into the presidential bunker. If the DC riots spread a few more blocks and put the Capitol in danger, the Senate will probably stop convening, and they'll delay debating the HEROES Act for coronavirus relief. LA has pulled some of its coronavirus testing, and regardless of what that tweet in this thread said about it being to "punish" protestors, I agree with pulling out nurses and saving limited test kits if their safety from either rioters or police brutality cannot be guaranteed.

There is a cost to the riots that go beyond injuries and death from thrown rocks and rubber bullets. Beyond property damage and vented rage and lost work time. We're at the point that more riots mean more of this cost for no gain to the cause being protested for.

Can I share with you when I lost my faith in this country? April 29, 1992.

As I've stated in this very forum, my upbringing was one of constantly being told no one will believe you because no one will see you. And how I would forever have a tough life because as a black man. So, when that video of Rodney King was shown, I was horrified... but so optimistic. This was it. It was finally shown. The majority finally sees that we aren't lying when we say how cops treat us. Life will be different from here on out.

I was 11. It was a few days before my birthday when they were acquitted. At 11 years old, I realized this wasn't going to stop because people don't care about us. That is what I had to realize at 11 years old.

It's 2020. Video after video after video comes out. You think this is being heard? The actual protest? No. People are protesting on one side, and people are basically purging on the other. And even without the riots, it would have been another "Well, that's a damn shame. But what are you going to do?", and move on with their lives.

Talking to people hasn't solved a thing. Protesting hasn't solved a thing. Showing treatment hasn't solved a thing.

You're asking people who have been under the heel their entire lives to be civil and trust that the system will eventually get to them. The riots aren't just, but neither is the treatment people are going through. There is no trust as these people have been lied to their entire lives, but are then told to bare it some more and try again with the words that we have been speaking, pleading, and crying out for generations.

I agree that the riots shouldn't have happened. But for everyone asking them to stop and telling others to find another way, I simply ask what is that other way. I want this riots to stop just as much as anyone else. I believe it gets us no where. But I know for a fact the way people keep telling us to try again has gotten us no where still.

So what is actually left?

So are you saying that it's "better to burn out than fade away" as it were? That instead of slowly dieing to Covid that they should try to make a stand? I suppose I can understand that train of logic then.

I'm saying when you have nothing, anything else feels better. It doesn't mean it IS better, but feelings are feelings. They aren't based in logic. Just like the systemic racism and prejudice that blacks have been placed under their entire integration in society doesn't make sense. But people feel they should be able to treat blacks a certain way. So they do it.

 

[Buyetyen]

People are broken at this time. Their anger is overriding their sense of.. well, anything else. It just seems to never stop.

This absolutely. We're being hammered with crises all at once during a time when we have no functional leadership at the federal level. I don't blame the people who have fully depleted their stocks of fuck.

 

[lil devils x]

What are they going to do, continue to riot for months? Years? It's as you said, Trump has no intention of some kind of national reform. And it's not even just because he doesn't care. Law enforcement is de-centralized and most responsibility and policies take place on state and local levels. They are not under direct Executive purview like the FBI is, by virtue of the 10th Amendment which reserves any powers not mentioned in the Constitution to the states. To change all of that, it will take a Congressional bill and maybe an Amendment, depending on exactly the change you want to see. That is a process of months at minimum. Just going to keep burning stuff that whole time? Just going to keep passing the virus around all that time?

That's not even going into the feasibility of the initial demands; you can't declare National Emergencies against "racism". And why would they even want that? Emergency declarations are to give the Executive emergency powers in a crisis to circumvent legislature. Why would left-wing protestors want Trump to have more power to do as he wills, which in this case would be reforming the country's policing as he sees fit? It's just a feel-good bullet point that sounds impressive while being functionally impossible to fulfill so that they can claim that their conditions are being unfulfilled indefinitely.

And there probably isn't anything to arrest those police officers for. There was a Supreme Court decision in 2005ish that said that police are not legally obligated to help people in emergencies. The worst they could be charged with is gross criminal negligence (from my reading), but the standing SC decision clears them of that (again, by my reading). Therefore, legislative and judicial reform would be necessary to charge officers who did what they did, something that will take months at minimum to go through the system.

As I said IF ACTION WILL BE TAKEN, it has been set in motion by now, through local, state, and national legislatures, at the very least as inspiration and ideas. If it won't be taken, that will not change with more riots. There'll only be more covid-19, more damage, more death.

*The US having decentralized police departments has not stopped them from receiving federal funding and national guidelines in the past, why would it suddenly do so now? How is this somehow different now when it seemed a non issue to do so when it was something the police actually wanted rather than the people? Police have no problem accepting federal funding to expand their armory or firepower, but to provide deescalation training and increased vetting is some how a problem now?

*The black community asked for the National Emergency declaration on racism so that the president could then use national resources to help address the problem. Trump has no problem doing so to construct his wall and divert military resources to do so, they are expecting him to do the same on diverting resources to retraining and rehiring of police departments while simultaneously having the resources necessary to be able to arrest and charge those within the police department who have already carried out acts of violence on the community that have not yet been charged.

* What do you mean there isn't anything to charge police officers with? The police officers that were at the scene of Floyd's death could be charged with Criminal negligence, that is still better than nothing at this point. But it isn't like they are the only ones who should be charged. Why have they not arrested Officers for murdering Breonna Taylor in her own home? Alton Sterling? Atatiana Jefferson? To name a few, sadly there are so many more, not to mention all of those that didn't result in death, but STILL warrant charges. Killing them is the worst outcome, but so many levels in between are at the core of the problem here when NONE of this should be happening at all. Not only has our current president turned a blind eye to these problems, Trump has actually ENCOURAGED police brutality himself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/07/29/u-s-police-chiefs-blast-trump-for-endorsing-police-brutality/

What needs to be happening right now is people, not just the protesters, need to be contacting their officials, INCLUDING their president and call on them to make these things happen to help solve this long term.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

It isn't about FUTURE action, they expressed that pretty clearly. They want action now. They have not even arrested all 4 officers yet.

Because only 1 is can be feasible charged with 4th degree murder.

The other 3, It's hard to argue how much they were involved vs how much they were merely witnessed.

It would be a dangerous precedent to criminalise being a witness and not acting to prevent death as can you imagine that applied to the general public?

"Oh a robber came in with a gun and you didn't try to tackle them and stood by and witnessed it without stopping them killing a person you're not guilty".

I think the best that can be hope for is maybe dereliction of duty charges

If this had been anyone else in the community, they would have been arrested already. The police have still been shown repeatedly all over the nation using excessive force against citizens DURING a protest about police violence against the community. They have stated that they will have peace when they receive justice. Justice has not yet been served. Expecting them to stand down when every single time they have stood down in the past, nothing ever changed. They are always told that " it will happen" and then NOTHING happens.

In this case more undue force or Overzealous respond. It's also a time of unease where 1 officer have been killed already since the riots started. They're on edge but mostly it's been incompetent use of Non lethal rounds and attempts to frame that is some brutal deliberate response.

The other question is what justice?

The argument being made is the police officer who killed Floyd should be charged with 1st degree murder. Problem is 1st degree murder requires evidence of pre-meditation. So they either have to push the officer through a Kangaroo court (which wouldn't be justice) or they push it through a regular court and he gets let off because the premeditation can't be proved. 4th degree is their best chance of charging him.

Hell some people idea of Justice was apparently to go to his house and try to execute him...........

The are no clear "This is what justice will look like" standards everyone can agree on which is part of the issue here. Some people just claim to want justice from the system they believe has wronged them. Others claim they want justice for 400 years of government actions.

while they have testing in wealthy neighborhoods, they did not provide testing for minority residents EVEN when they have been hit so much harder.

That's more private Doctors selling the tests from my understanding than much else.

A lot of celebs in the UK were getting tests via private doctors so it's likely the same in the USA.

What are they going to do, continue to riot for months? Years? It's as you said, Trump has no intention of some kind of national reform. And it's not even just because he doesn't care. Law enforcement is de-centralized and most responsibility and policies take place on state and local levels. They are not under direct Executive purview like the FBI is, by virtue of the 10th Amendment which reserves any powers not mentioned in the Constitution to the states. To change all of that, it will take a Congressional bill and maybe an Amendment, depending on exactly the change you want to see. That is a process of months at minimum. Just going to keep burning stuff that whole time? Just going to keep passing the virus around all that time?

That's not even going into the feasibility of the initial demands; you can't declare National Emergencies against "racism". And why would they even want that? Emergency declarations are to give the Executive emergency powers in a crisis to circumvent legislature. Why would left-wing protestors want Trump to have more power to do as he wills, which in this case would be reforming the country's policing as he sees fit? It's just a feel-good bullet point that sounds impressive while being functionally impossible to fulfill so that they can claim that their conditions are being unfulfilled indefinitely.

And there probably isn't anything to arrest those police officers for. There was a Supreme Court decision in 2005ish that said that police are not legally obligated to help people in emergencies. The worst they could be charged with is gross criminal negligence (from my reading), but the standing SC decision clears them of that (again, by my reading). Therefore, legislative and judicial reform would be necessary to charge officers who did what they did, something that will take months at minimum to go through the system.

As I said IF ACTION WILL BE TAKEN, it has been set in motion by now, through local, state, and national legislatures, at the very least as inspiration and ideas. If it won't be taken, that will not change with more riots. There'll only be more covid-19, more damage, more death.

Also worth mentioning the riots and fires are going to hurt the communities that are most vulnerable that are more minority ones (as long as the riots keep happening in minority communities)

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

Except

1) It was his flag

2) He was actually on the side of and walking with the protesters so on their side which makes it all the more stupid said goons decided to jump him when he's literally supporting the same supposed cause they were. If they're willing to do that to people on their side the fact Eric Clanton was willing to try and brain a peaceful person trying to separate the two sides isn't surprising nor would further escalation.

I forgot the part where Antifa march with people protesting whilst waving American flags, and now you're associating that sort of proximity from a plain-clothes lad with a black bloc as associationg as well. Lots of conjecture based on presupposition, which you're spelling out here multiple times.

 

[Buyetyen]

What is the point in pointing out the obvious?

Smug self-satisfaction, I would imagine.

They have been heard. They have absolutely been heard, by every single person in this country. Whatever future action is taken has been set in motion by this point. Regardless of if that action will be liberating or disappointing, more fires are not going to change it towards the positive. Therefore, its time to stop sacrificing people.

It's not so simple as going out to the rioters and explaining your reasoning to them. The riots are still going because it's not about being heard anymore. It's about disrupting the system. Why? Because FUCK the system. It failed them and has been doing so with great consistency for about 4 centuries. The incentive to play by the rules of such a system is pretty weak.

This is my concern as well, that ultimately more pain and suffering will come out of this than is solved.

All the more reason the city should get around to arresting those other officers and charging them. Address racial injustice and public health at once, easy win.

 

[Revnak]

So there’s this, but note that this was performed by Dr. Baden who is a bit of a hack.