National Guard called into Minneapolis

[XsjadoBlayde]

I'm for rioting until that sick power tripping murderer is locked up instead of the coincidentally black reporter on the scene of the protest. They will keep doing this shit as long as they keep getting away with it. What power do you really have when politeness is either ignored, dismissed as exaggeration or outright twisted against you?

 

[tstorm823]

Ameican Revolution? I seem to remember something about tea.

As to swift, nothing is ever swift

That's not a good example. The British certainly didn't ignore the riot, nor did they rescind the contentious policy, they took away self-governance from Massachusetts and eventually had a war. Like... are you suggesting these protesters intend to instigate harsh penalties against themselves so they have an excuse to fight a war?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

More? They’re literally burning down the precinct building right now and partying about it.

And about 3 other places last night.

Hell depending on how the fire spread it could have taken other places with them,

Target’s fine dude. I imagine that’s all insured. Literally meaningless aside from the employees, who, as I said, hopefully showed up and stole a TV.

Problem is the insurance will likely only cover the stock and damage at cost. So days trading time plus any actual profits they expected to make on those products are up in smoke. Corporate might decide it's not worth re-opening that store because by the time it's rebuilt and refitted that will be quite a loss in terms of it having to be closed.

 

[Trunkage]

That's not a good example. The British certainly didn't ignore the riot, nor did they rescind the contentious policy, they took away self-governance from Massachusetts and eventually had a war. Like... are you suggesting these protesters intend to instigate harsh penalties against themselves so they have an excuse to fight a war?

I think a bunch of people are itching for a war. I don't know if these protesters are. Or the rioters. Or the police. This could very well be an excuse to start something for someone who has stupid ideals. Because Ive seen way too many Americans Romanticise the Revolutionary war, thinking they will be the heroes.

 

[tstorm823]

I think a bunch of people are itching for a war. I don't know if these protesters are. Or the rioters. Or the police. This could very well be an excuse to start something for someone who has stupid ideals. Because Ive seen way too many Americans Romanticise the Revolutionary war, thinking they will be the heroes.

I don't think any of those groups are trying to fight a war. I think there are protesters who want justice and rioters who want to riot and not necessarily overlap in between.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

Nothing will change until politicians, DAs, and police forces start taking police brutality seriously, or protesters come up with something more effective than a riot. In a week or so the violence by civilians will be over and we'll be back to business as usual.

Have to agree, even if the situation does have a lot of potential (though in many ways it isn't an authentic situation or event in Debord/Badiou terms) there's little outside of an abstract (albeit righteous) demand for justice. It can be galvanised into a movement that's more than just a demand for general dignity, but I don't see it more as a coordinated local insurgency against the police for the time being. Maybe once there's a concrete manifesto being declared or when supply chains are set up to accomodate the disenfranchised (i.e. transforming into a permanent social structure) I'd be more interested in it beyond just admiring riot pornography.

 

[lil devils x]

Have to agree, even if the situation does have a lot of potential (though in many ways it isn't an authentic situation or event in Debord/Badiou terms) there's little outside of an abstract (albeit righteous) demand for justice. It can be galvanised into a movement that's more than just a demand for general dignity, but I don't see it more as a coordinated local insurgency against the police for the time being. Maybe once there's a concrete manifesto being declared or when supply chains are set up to accomodate the disenfranchised (i.e. transforming into a permanent social structure) I'd be more interested in it beyond just admiring riot pornography.

They actually do have specific demands though and voiced them on live TV yesterday.
*They want a national emergency declaration on racism.
*They want the violence against the black community to cease in all police departments in the US effective immediately.
* They want any police officer who has committed violence against the black community already to be arrested and charged the same as anyone else would be and not to be placed above the law.
*They want to implement changes in policies that allow for the targeting, racial profiling, and violence in the first place so that they can change this long term.

This isn't even the first time they have expressed these things, They just have to keep repeating them until they are heard.

Minneapolis city council official calls for racism to be declared a public health emergency

"Until we name this virus, this disease that has infected America for the past 400 years, we will never, ever resolve this issue."

www.axios.com

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

They actually do have specific demands though and voiced them on live TV yesterday.
*They want a national emergency declaration on racism.
*They want the violence against the black community to cease in all police departments in the US effective immediately.
* They want any police officer who has committed violence against the black community already to be arrested and charged the same as anyone else would be and not to be placed above the law.
*They want to implement changes in policies that allow for the targeting, racial profiling, and violence in the first place so that they can change this long term.

I'll respond point by point:
1. What does that entail when the abuses are systematic and not up to the behaviour of a few cops but are excused and covered across the chain of command in unelected police departments? (Not that even Sheriffs work well in America either)
2. Violence how? The police are racist, they profile and harass minorities and it's been proven time and time again that people in the position of the police will be prejudiced towards violence, and that this is a factor even with training (as seen in countries outside of the US)
3. Sure, but that doesn't solve the underlying issue of police holding an unreasonable amount of power with a lack of accountability beyond a prison sentence over the populace, or the fact that the US needs prison reform to prevent the profitability of criminality that drives up arrests and contributes to an overall social violence.
4. Sure, but again this is a policy proposal not a systematic one.

I should be more specific that I don't see this as a revolution, and in that case it will be subject to the same bogus state-legislated process as before that has people expect systemic violence to just wash away over time (whilst living in a system of constant socio-economic violence that means unemployment and homelessness are always on the horizon of a crash or riding on the back of a random crisis that the state does almost nothing to shelter them from in the first place).

 

[dreng3]

They actually do have specific demands though and voiced them on live TV yesterday.
*They want a national emergency declaration on racism.
*They want the violence against the black community to cease in all police departments in the US effective immediately.
* They want any police officer who has committed violence against the black community already to be arrested and charged the same as anyone else would be and not to be placed above the law.
*They want to implement changes in policies that allow for the targeting, racial profiling, and violence in the first place so that they can change this long term.

This isn't even the first time they have expressed these things, They just have to keep repeating them until they are heard.

Demanding that people in power not act like raging racists, not bloody likely.

The US really needs to stop with the american exceptionalism and start taking a look at how other modern nations do things.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

They actually do have specific demands though and voiced them on live TV yesterday.
*They want a national emergency declaration on racism.
*They want the violence against the black community to cease in all police departments in the US effective immediately.
* They want any police officer who has committed violence against the black community already to be arrested and charged the same as anyone else would be and not to be placed above the law.
*They want to implement changes in policies that allow for the targeting, racial profiling, and violence in the first place so that they can change this long term.

This isn't even the first time they have expressed these things, They just have to keep repeating them until they are heard.

They won't get a national emergency declared in part because some of the cases they're still arguing have had additional evidence to them or evidence the police acted out of fear for their own lives in at least one situation. There have been court cases gone through and the officers cleared of murder too. Yes a number of the incidents have been seemingly cases of murder by cops but not all of them which is part of the issue.

They won't get "Violence against the Black community to cease" because there have been claims of acts being violence when officers acted entirely appropriately. E.G. the woman who claimed she was raped by a police officer after he took her to the station for drink driving and refusing to provide a test. It was only when fully body camera footage from the highway patrol agency was released that the truth came out that she was drunk and the officer acted entirely appropriately and never harmed her at all. The officer actually took his body camera off and placed it on a desk / cabinet to make sure it showed all his actions with him in the frame with her for most of the video too.

They won't get the arrests. Because some of those officer have already previously been through court and been cleared of wrong doing so are we just going to argue any accusation should see the officer dragged through court?

As for the changes to policies etc the argument could well be made it's based on economic / area and how can you prove it's racial profiling not profiling an area with a high crime rate and high rate of certain things happening which due to economic conditions has a large population of one race.

 

[lil devils x]

I'll respond point by point:
1. What does that entail when the abuses are systematic and not up to the behaviour of a few cops but are excused and covered across the chain of command in unelected police departments? (Not that even Sheriffs work well in America either)
2. Violence how? The police are racist, they profile and harass minorities and it's been proven time and time again that people in the position of the police will be prejudiced towards violence, and that this is a factor even with training (as seen in countries outside of the US)
3. Sure, but that doesn't solve the underlying issue of police holding an unreasonable amount of power with a lack of accountability beyond a prison sentence over the populace, or the fact that the US needs prison reform to prevent the profitability of criminality that drives up arrests and contributes to an overall social violence.
4. Sure, but again this is a policy proposal not a systematic one.

I should be more specific that I don't see this as a revolution, and in that case it will be subject to the same bogus state-legislated process as before that has people expect systemic violence to just wash away over time (whilst living in a system of constant socio-economic violence that means unemployment and homelessness are always on the horizon of a crash or riding on the back of a random crisis that the state does almost nothing to shelter them from in the first place).

I had actually posted a comprehensive plan on this that was on Hillary Clinton's campaign while she was running, but since that no longer exists, I will try and go from memory as much as I can, as her plan was a actually pretty good here.

*Increase vetting of officers so that officers with any record of racism are banned from any law enforcement position. The long history and currently pressing issues of police officers belonging to hate groups such as the KKK and identity Evropa ect. ANY history of racism, past or present should disqualify them from being hired by law enforcement military or any security position period.
* End the Blue wall of silence by firing officers for not reporting fellow officer's behavior. Make it easier to terminate officers for this behavior, not just suspend them.
*Let go or retrain the officers that are retrainable to focus on deescalation training and different methods of handling situations ending the "us vs them" mentality against their community, and instead view them as all being part of the same community working with the community to solve the problems rather than working against them. Violence should be a last resort, rather than the standard response. Every violent situation should be thoroughly investigated externally, to help prevent departments covering up their own bad behavior.
* All police officers must wear body cams and be penalized, even suspended or terminated if their body cams are not turned on during conflicts.
*All police conduct records should be easily accessible by the public, and they create a website as they have in some communities posting all information available to keep transparency with their actions to the public.

There was much more in her original overhaul plan, but of course Trump screamed she was anti police and used it against her when it really was a good policy to increase both police and community safety.

 

[lil devils x]

They won't get a national emergency declared in part because some of the cases they're still arguing have had additional evidence to them or evidence the police acted out of fear for their own lives in at least one situation. There have been court cases gone through and the officers cleared of murder too. Yes a number of the incidents have been seemingly cases of murder by cops but not all of them which is part of the issue.

They won't get "Violence against the Black community to cease" because there have been claims of acts being violence when officers acted entirely appropriately. E.G. the woman who claimed she was raped by a police officer after he took her to the station for drink driving and refusing to provide a test. It was only when fully body camera footage from the highway patrol agency was released that the truth came out that she was drunk and the officer acted entirely appropriately and never harmed her at all. The officer actually took his body camera off and placed it on a desk / cabinet to make sure it showed all his actions with him in the frame with her for most of the video too.

They won't get the arrests. Because some of those officer have already previously been through court and been cleared of wrong doing so are we just going to argue any accusation should see the officer dragged through court?

As for the changes to policies etc the argument could well be made it's based on economic / area and how can you prove it's racial profiling not profiling an area with a high crime rate and high rate of certain things happening which due to economic conditions has a large population of one race.

All of these things were actually addressed and budgeted by Hillary Clinton on the federal level to address this while she was running, but Trump screamed she was anti police and nothing ever happened. The federal government can actually give them funding for training and equipment needed to change their policies, but that isn't going to happen while the racist cops have the support of the racist community empowering them.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

snip

I'll bow out from this discourse by saying a) I don't care for voting as I made it clear in previous threads (not to be rude, I just don't want to reiterate it) and b) I don't care about what Hillary or Biden would do about it. They are not in the saddle right now, and not even the police or national guard are controlling the situation all that well in Minneapolis. I want the protestors to form a mass movement, not to start propping up candidates for an election.

 

[lil devils x]

I'll bow out from this discourse by saying a) I don't care for voting as I made it clear in previous threads (not to be rude, I just don't want to reiterate it) and b) I don't care about what Hillary or Biden would do about it. They are not in the saddle right now, and not even the police or national guard are controlling the situation all that well in Minneapolis. I want the protestors to form a mass movement, not to start propping up candidates for an election.

Clinton's and Sander's plans were pretty similar, but both of them actually had Black lives matter protesters working for their campaigns designing the policies so the protesters were actually the one's involved in the solution here.
Unless the protesters DO get involved in elections, nothing will ever happen. Black lives Matter was a movement, and are in a position to enact policy changes, we just have to elect the people willing to implement them.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Name one time a riot brought about swift justice.

We just did this with the Ahmaud Arbery case. No riots, guys are in jail awaiting trial. Or the cop that thought she was in her own apartment and shot a man in his. No riot, convicted. There are many cases where black men got killed and shouldn't have where the killer got convicted, and many where the killer didn't, but I can't think of a single instance where a riot changed the situation.

First and foremost, people need to get keenly aware of how Blacks have been treated in Milwaukee area. It hasn't been good.

But, more over, The issue is that we just did this. And yet we didn't.

And that's really, really the problem.

The Arbery case might seem like a victory to some, but it really isn't. It shows that the Blue Shield would have extended beyond the limits of the office if it wasn't for a video. It would have been a hero ex-cop bravely stopped a criminal who foolishly fought against him and his son when they tried to in act a citizen's arrest. Reminder, Arbery's murder happened in February 23. McMichaels weren't arrested until May 8th.

Originally, a DA in the case called what the McMichaels did, run down an innocent man and accost him due to suspicions without actually witnessing a crime, perfectly legal. Sadly, as shown by Revnak, that similarity is shared now.

But going back to a statement I made earlier. Why is the Arbery Case not a victory? Because it took beyond extra steps to get some measure of justice. There's a reason why people always ask for calm. Not because Blacks are prone to riot. But Blacks are prone to being failed. That the anger and frustration of getting less representation and justice historically in this country while getting more marginalization and systemic mistreatment by all walks of this government and society pushes people to no end.

In comparison. A global pandemic happened. In this nation alone (at the time of writing this) the US has 103,441 deaths due to the Coronavirus. On the same token, There have been 363,061 worldwide. 28% of all deaths in this world due to this illness is here in the United States. But instead of seeing that this is out of control and we need measure to mitigate death, Armed Protesters took to the streets to demand the stay-at-home measures be lifted. One more time, this wasn't a punitive action done by the Governments of this nation. It was to save lives. But whatever, a group of people felt their freedom taken away from what they deemed too long of a period of time, and they took to the streets.

That protest happened in May 14th, 2020. Michigan went on lockdown at March 23, 2020. Apparently, 52 days (not even two months) is enough time when certain groups feel like they need to bring firearms when their civil liberties are taken away from them.

Once again, we're talking decades of oppression. Decades. Of being overpoliced, abused, battered, and killed without any repercussion or any real issue. A token firing here, an actual arrest there... nothing to really mitigate or reign-in the amount of terror that these people in Milwaukee feel.

And as to the actions? Well, it always brings me to mind of Star Wars. I find it fascinating how many people side with the rebels when they see a clearly oppressive culture dominate another, with superior weapons, tactics, and funding. How they always seem to pull for the underdog... in fiction. But when real life happens, they don't want to be bothered.

If there's an issue: "Yeah, yeah, can you talk about it quietly over there? I need to watch my sports"

If the issue hasn't been solved and there's renewed focus on it: "Jesus, are they still talking about that? Can't they focus on anything else?"

If the issue bleeds into a place they can't escape: "THIS IS INEXCUSABLE! I WORK FOR A LIVING, I PAY MY TAXES, AND I CAN'T ENJOY MY TIME OF WATCHING THE BALL GO INTO THE APPARATUS EVEN THOUGH THE ISSUE MAINLY CONCERNS THE PLAYERS OF SAID GAME?!"

If the issue boils over and unsavory actions take place: "God, they really just want to use any reason to get out of hand. Couldn't they just talk about it?"

This is the way that a certain amount of Americans want to handle issues when they pertain to Blacks. Keep it quiet so they can ignore it, and then full judgment mode if they can not any more. There's no banding together as fellow Americans to solve. It's just telling them to keep in the place.

If respect, representation, and Laws only apply against you, and not in favor of you... are you really going to want to follow that reign? Especially when the majority of the populace have power to do something about it, and then deem you not worth the effort?

 

[Revnak]

Clinton's and Sander's plans were pretty similar, but both of them actually had Black lives matter protesters working for their campaigns designing the policies so the protesters were actually the one's involved in the solution here.
Unless the protesters DO get involved in elections, nothing will ever happen. Black lives Matter was a movement, and are in a position to enact policy changes, we just have to elect the people willing to implement them.

I don’t think Clinton should be allowed to be the solution to the problems she helped make, or any other conservative Democrat, or this whole disgusting machine of human suffering. The last time America got to say it cured itself of racism, they killed MLK, Malcolm X, and the Panthers then said it was about drinking fountains. Maybe these guys shouldn’t be “involved,” perhaps they should be in charge. Let’s not let modern politicians pull the same shit LBJ did.
Edit- and yeah, apply this to Sanders too, I don’t care, I’m not a fucking socdem.

 

[lil devils x]

( snipped because it was erroring when I tried to post)

But, more over, The issue is that we just did this. And yet we didn't.

If respect, representation, and Laws only apply against you, and not in favor of you... are you really going to want to follow that reign? Especially when the majority of the populace have power to do something about it, and then deem you not worth the effort?

IKR? Oh and the whole Breonna Taylor shooting, can you just imagine the uproar if the police had done a no knock warrant for someone who was already arrested and didn't even live there on say, Trump's summer home (prior to him having national security surrounding him of course) and shot his wife 8 times and then didn't even arrest the officers?!

"Records show that the police investigation was centered around a "trap house" more than 10 miles from Taylor's apartment, according to The Courier Journal. Her family said officers were looking for a man named Jamarcus Glover, who lived in a different part of the city and was already in police custody when Taylor's home was raided."

Breonna Taylor police shooting: What we know about the Kentucky woman's death

The 26-year-old was shot and killed by Louisville police in March following what her family calls a "botched" raid at her home.

www.nbcnews.com

Just imagine just police busting into a wealthy white person's home and killing their wife for no apparent reason in the middle of the night and not even being arrested for it? Seriously, it is insane how bad this is.

 

[lil devils x]

I don’t think Clinton should be allowed to be the solution to the problems she helped make, or any other conservative Democrat, or this whole disgusting machine of human suffering. The last time America got to say it cured itself of racism, they killed MLK, Malcolm X, and the Panthers then said it was about drinking fountains. Maybe these guys shouldn’t be “involved,” perhaps they should be in charge. Let’s not let modern politicians pull the same shit LBJ did.
Edit- and yeah, apply this to Sanders too, I don’t care, I’m not a fucking socdem.

I don't care who solves them as long as they are solved. The people who caused the problem SHOULD be the one's to clean up the mess they made, rather than expecting someone else to do it for them. The goal here is having it solved. Who makes that happen is irrelevant.

 

[Revnak]

I don't care who solves them as long as they are solved. The people who caused the problem SHOULD be the one's to clean up the mess they made, rather than expecting someone else to do it for them. The goal here is having it solved. Who makes that happen is irrelevant.

This presumes they’ve the slightest interest in solving problems that they’re materially interested in perpetuating into eternity. LBJ was a very responsible man, he knew his job and did it well. Just so happens that job was ruining our lives. Same as all of these guys. As for an alternative to having the responsible parties clean their own mess, I think the lovely people of Minneapolis are working on that as we speak.

 

[lil devils x]

This presumes they’ve the slightest interest in solving problems that they’re materially interested in perpetuating into eternity. LBJ was a very responsible man, he knew his job and did it well. Just so happens that job was ruining our lives. Same as all of these guys. As for an alternative to having the responsible parties clean their own mess, I think the lovely people of Minneapolis are working on that as we speak.

I could care less if they personally care about it or not, as long as they do what is required of them either way whatever their reasoning is. It was actually in Hillary Clinton's first year budget and would have been funded and put into motion already. That is the closest we have ever gotten as of yet.