WARNING: Last of Us 2 has leaked

[Dalisclock]

Congratulations, that is the main reason why I do not like TLoUs (or Black Lagoon for that matter). It is nothing, but misery porn. Whatever good characters show up either rarely survive, die, turn out be assholes, or leave the plot early enough to not be a big factor. It's why I prefer the Resident Evil series, there are good or at least decent people in that world. TLoUs is the type of universe people like Johan Liebert, Joker, or Vaz would thrive on the pain and misery or get off on the violence.

Black Lagoon at least has some fun action scenes. Including the one when Revy mowed down a boat full of Nazis, which is always a crowd pleaser. I mean, yeah, Revy is going about it like a stone cold pyschopath(and not even the sadistic joy she normally has while shooting people), but OTOH, they are nazis and thus the human equivalent of pond scum.

But yeah, for all the griping about TloU2 for...whatever reason we're griping right now, I didn't think the first one was especially amazing. It has really good production values but other then that it's fine with some good character bonding between Joel and Ellie.

 

[Dalisclock]

It’s funny that they want the player to bond with the characters when they’re all either psychopaths or manic depressives. Dark Souls for example is downright cheery next to this, and that world’s meant to be portrayed as a hollow (no pun) shell next to TLoU’s.

Dark Souls had some levity, even if it's mostly the result of people slowly going mad and chuckling inanely as a result. Also, Onion Bro and Sun Bro, who were pleasent enough company.

"I could try rolling....oh, but my head would spin"
Never change, Sieggy. Never Change.

 

[BrawlMan]

cluding the one when Revy mowed down a boat full of Nazis, which is always a crowd pleaser. I mean, yeah, Revy is going about it like a stone cold pyschopath(and not even the sadistic joy she normally has while shooting people), but OTOH, they are nazis and thus the human equivalent of pond scum.

My main problem with Black Lagoon, was that I hated how preaching it can get with the nihilism. It seemed like every criminal, villain, psychopath, or sociopath felt the need to prove a point about how everything was pointless. Or nothing you do matters. My question for all these so-called "geniuses", is if nothing you do matters, why bother running a criminal empire, gangs & thugs, drug deals, and other shady crap? It got very annoying and tiring. You throw the Punisher in Raunpour, and everyone would be given a huge wake-up call. Though that was already done in fan-fiction. Loved it.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Some light shed on the original game’s secret epilogue could give more context to the sequel’s opening moments...

Spoiler

https://www.inverse.com/gaming/last-of-us-2-spoilers-theory-ellie-joel-guitar

 

[FakeSympathy]

I'd like to chime in and ask: Does anyone actually care about this game anymore? For me, it happened with every time they released a new trailer

The game was announced in 2016. Just like with everyone else, I was on the hype train.

The next trailer was in 2017. No Ellie or Joel, and that left me confused; Was the game still focused on those two, or was this gonna feature a new protagonist?

The trailer from e3 2018 was nice, but I couldn't help but feel it had too many human enemies. If the game was about surviving the cordyceps infection, then where are all the infected? Did the infection just magically go away, and now we're in a process of rebuilding the society? I mean it's an interesting concept, but after seeing how dangerous the infection was in the first game, I was skeptical about the gameplay missing clickers and bloaters. To top of all that, fighting against hostile humans looked.....boring.

Safe to say, by this point I was beginning to lose interest. There were far more exciting games that were going to come out in the next few years, or was already available.

The 2019 trailer from the state of play sparked my interest again. It had bits of everything I wanted; Ellie's motivation, different infection forms, and even Joel in the end. It probably was the best trailer for the game up to that point. However, the game looked very standard. Like, everything you see in the trailer you have already seen it in other zombie/infection media. Fanatic survivors group, the characters you love either dying or leaving, navigating to remains of decaying civilization...etc.

Sad to say, but once the initial hype and interest went away, I was back to not caring.

And now we are here in 2020. And given how the new trailer seems to go hand-in-hand with the leak, it has cemented by disinterest in the game; Don't really care about the whole "Abby modeled after trans woman" thing, but what really got me was the cycle of hatred and vengeance concept. Like gee, I totally didn't see this in other media or IRL.... I also feel like both sony and Naughty Dog aren't listening to the fan backlashes.

I don't expect nor want the game to fail. There are still tons of people who will get this game, and I am pretty sure the development has been hell. But it's definitely a "wait for sale" game for me

 

[SilentPony]

Dark Souls had some levity, even if it's mostly the result of people slowly going mad and chuckling inanely as a result. Also, Onion Bro and Sun Bro, who were pleasent enough company.

"I could try rolling....oh, but my head would spin"
Never change, Sieggy. Never Change.

I always found the Souls series to be quiet charming and a little light-hearted. Like its all melancholy and whatnot, but to an absurdist, comical degree.

This image reminds me of Souls a lot - its just one endless tragedy after another after another to the point you laugh at how terrible everything and everyone is and how no one is doing anything except brooding over how broody everyone is.

 

[stroopwafel]

I always found the Souls series to be quiet charming and a little light-hearted. Like its all melancholy and whatnot, but to an absurdist, comical degree.

This image reminds me of Souls a lot - its just one endless tragedy after another after another to the point you laugh at how terrible everything and everyone is and how no one is doing anything except brooding over how broody everyone is.

I don't know about that. I think Souls is very much what the series creator calls 'withering beauty'. It's not really tragic, everything happened a long time ago. There is a futility for sure with both the natural world and the social order being cruel and unkind but that is simply the state of existence. At the same time that former grandeur falling into decay brings a sense of relief and sensitivity. It is exactly this melancholy that nothing lasts forever, not even the bad things.

These games are 'dark' in a very different sense than TLOU2 which is more about human cruelty when it actually happens. It is more relatable than an artistic rendition of a crumbling kingdom filled with fantasy creatures. The violence is much more 'real'. No one would get uncomfortable with a Souls title but with TLOU2 that seems like a possibility for some players.

 

[Dalisclock]

I don't know about that. I think Souls is very much what the series creator calls 'withering beauty'. It's not really tragic, everything happened a long time ago. There is a futility for sure with both the natural world and the social order being cruel and unkind but that is simply the state of existence. At the same time that former grandeur falling into decay brings a sense of relief and sensitivity. It is exactly this melancholy that nothing lasts forever, not even the bad things.

Like Yathzee said, you're not late for the party, you've missed the party so much that the house has long since been abandoned and burned down. The end already happened, there's nobody to save and all that's left is a sublime beauty.

There was an old Painter named Thomas Cole who created 5 paintings call the Course of Empire, starting with a primitive state, the middle being a sprawling roman-style civilization at it's height and ending with the ruins long after everything has collapsed.

It's a personal favorite of mine both for it's sense of scale, it's symmetry(Pre-civilization, Rise, Peak, Fall, Post civilization) as well as it's beauty. Below is the final painting, Desolation, which fits the Souls Motif very well. Bloodborne is kind of the odd one out here because Yarhnem in the midst of it's fall.

Sorry for digressing from the discussion for a quick Art History lesson(I wasn't an art history major, but sometimes I like to pretend I was).

 

[stroopwafel]

Like Yathzee said, you're not late for the party, you've missed the party so much that the house has long since been abandoned and burned down. The end already happened, there's nobody to save and all that's left is a sublime beauty.

There was an old Painter named Thomas Cole who created 5 paintings call the Course of Empire, starting with a primitive state, the middle being a sprawling roman-style civilization at it's height and ending with the ruins long after everything has collapsed.

It's a personal favorite of mine both for it's sense of scale, it's symmetry(Pre-civilization, Rise, Peak, Fall, Post civilization) as well as it's beauty. Below is the final painting, Desolation, which fits the Souls Motif very well. Bloodborne is kind of the odd one out here because Yarhnem in the midst of it's fall.

Sorry for digressing from the discussion for a quick Art History lesson(I wasn't an art history major, but sometimes I like to pretend I was).

Yeah, that's cool. Those paintings really bring history to life. Beginning of the year I visited the Hofburg museum in Vienna which had three of these gigantic paintings of the rise and fall of the Habsburg empire, lasting from about the Holy Roman Empire(ie early Renaissance) to about early 20th century. Seeing these paintings from the family's ancestral origins to it's final ruler in the grandeur of it's former residence is something else.

That the tour guide sounded exactly like Orbeck of Vinheim was an added bonus. xD

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I don't know about that. I think Souls is very much what the series creator calls 'withering beauty'. It's not really tragic, everything happened a long time ago. There is a futility for sure with both the natural world and the social order being cruel and unkind but that is simply the state of existence. At the same time that former grandeur falling into decay brings a sense of relief and sensitivity. It is exactly this melancholy that nothing lasts forever, not even the bad things.

These games are 'dark' in a very different sense than TLOU2 which is more about human cruelty when it actually happens. It is more relatable than an artistic rendition of a crumbling kingdom filled with fantasy creatures. The violence is much more 'real'. No one would get uncomfortable with a Souls title but with TLOU2 that seems like a possibility for some players.

I think a way to put it is that Dark Souls is more like purgatory than hell.

 

[Dalisclock]

Yeah, that's cool. Those paintings really bring history to life. Beginning of the year I visited the Hofburg museum in Vienna which had three of these gigantic paintings of the rise and fall of the Habsburg empire, lasting from about the Holy Roman Empire(ie early Renaissance) to about early 20th century. Seeing these paintings from the family's ancestral origins to it's final ruler in the grandeur of it's former residence is something else.

That the tour guide sounded exactly like Orbeck of Vinheim was an added bonus. xD

Do you remember the artist or the title? I'd be curious to look at those.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Watched the State of Play. Similar to UC4, they seem to have bigger open environments for levels. Stealth looks like it's been hugely improved upon. I've seen some people complain about the violence being snuff-filmy, but I think they're highly exaggeration. Anyone remember the SAW sequels? I'll give Naughty Dog credit, they have ambition, drive, and motivation (Vergil voice)! I am still not interested story wise, but best of luck to guys. Still does not excuse your harsh work conditions. Y'all need to fix that. I know Seraphim17 is going to be happy when this game launches. Can't wait to see his Hardest difficulty, No Upgrade Walkthrough.

It is really fucking nasty though, in a way that makes me feel 'Do I actually want to join Ellie on this trip?' I was seriously thinking during this State of Play 'Can't Ellie just knock this guy out and tie him up? Does she need to horrifically shank him to death?' And I mean, the first game was pretty violent, but here it feels a lot more vicious and cruel. And in this State of Play especially they seem to want to draw attention to how much more cruel and vicious it is. They specifically wanted the audience to hear that dog yelp out in pain as it horribly burned alive. It's like Naughty Dog thought 'The first game was really violent and people liked that, so let's do that even more.' The second trailer was likely already an indicator, with someone getting their elbow hammered in in centre frame. The most explicit violence in the first game (within cutscenes) usually happened off screen or quickly cut away the second it hit, whether it was Joel breaking someone's arm, jamming a knife in their kneecap, or Ellie hacking someone's face into mulch.

God of War 3 showed how easy it is for a developer to feed into the apparently increasing appetite of the gaming public for violence, until suddenly you're shoving an innocent slave girl into a gear to get crushed. And with every trailer of TLoU2 so far I'm getting similar vibes to God of War 3; just kinda mean and hateful.

Stepping away from the violence... With all the footage I've seen thus far the game also looks incredibly drab. And I know, 'well duh, it's the post-apocalypse', but that didn't stop the first game from having very strak colours and actually looking very beautiful despite society lying in ruin. In TLoU2 everything either seems drenched in rain or drenched in mud.

I don't know, this might be a grimdark too far.

 

[Dalisclock]

God of War 3 showed how easy it is for a developer to feed into the apparently increasing appetite of the gaming public for violence, until suddenly you're shoving an innocent slave girl into a gear to get crushed. And with every trailer of TLoU2 so far I'm getting similar vibes to God of War 3; just kinda mean and hateful.

Which to me would be the "I'm out" point, because Joel and Ellie were some of the only sympathetic characters in TLoU and taking that away leaves grimdark all the way down.

We'll see when it comes out.

 

[stroopwafel]

Do you remember the artist or the title? I'd be curious to look at those.

Yeah it's Joseph Roos View of the Ruins of the Habichtsburg.

View of the Ruins of the Habichtsburg - Joseph Rosa - Google Arts & Culture

Here the ruins of the Habichtsburg in the Swiss canton of Aargau dominate an Alpine river landscape. Both the atmosphere of the painting and the idealized ...

artsandculture.google.com

Not a famous painter as he was in direct service of the family itself. Other paintings like Adoration of the Magi from the family 400 years prior was from an entirely unknown painter.

I love art and history myself as well and few places are better than Vienna in my opinion. Besides the opulent Hofburg and Schonenbrunn residence there is also the Belvedere art museum which is absolutely breathtaking. It's collections spans original works from the medieval period(all unknown painters who were in service of the Church), Baroque, Neoclassicism/Romanticism, Impressionism and Interwar period. Upper Belvedere was also the residence of Franz Ferdinand, the bloke whose assassination in Sarajevo by a Serb nationalist triggered the chain reaction that would lead to WW1.

One my favorite painting in the collection would probably be Death and the Maiden by Egon Schiele.



It's a self-portrait of the painter who is holding his lover tenderly with his left hand while gently pushing her away with his right hand. It perfectly portrays that fragile balance of life before it collapses and shatters. Or to put it in the words of the great painter himself who already saw decay in the living flesh: How good - everything is Living Dead.

Though it has to be said those views weren't uncommon in those times. 1915 was a nightmare.

 

[BrawlMan]

It is really fucking nasty though, in a way that makes me feel 'Do I actually want to join Ellie on this trip?' I was seriously thinking during this State of Play 'Can't Ellie just knock this guy out and tie him up? Does she need to horrifically shank him to death?' And I mean, the first game was pretty violent, but here it feels a lot more vicious and cruel. And in this State of Play especially they seem to want to draw attention to how much more cruel and vicious it is. They specifically wanted the audience to hear that dog yelp out in pain as it horribly burned alive. It's like Naughty Dog thought 'The first game was really violent and people liked that, so let's do that even more.' The second trailer was likely already an indicator, with someone getting their elbow hammered in in centre frame.

I don't know, this might be a grimdark too far.

God of War 3 showed how easy it is for a developer to feed into the apparently increasing appetite of the gaming public for violence, until suddenly you're shoving an innocent slave girl into a gear to get crushed. And with every trailer of TLoU2 so far I'm getting similar vibes to God of War 3; just kinda mean and hateful.

That is when I actually, physically, hated Kratos with a passion. I never cared much for him to begin with, but I found him entertaining for a time. That's why I was originally pissed that he would still be alive in God of War 4. I'd still prefer if they had a more original story, that did not involve him, but at least became a decent person trying to do the actual right thing. The chemistry between him and a Atreus, I found more enjoyable and enteraining than Joel and Ellie. Joel I never cared much for either, and Ellie I just found okay. Spekaing of the whole vengance cycle thing, but I am not impressed. I've done it too many times to count, no matter the media. Here's the games that do it best, Silent Hill 3, Devil May Cry 3, No More Heroes in general, Nier, and Nier: Automata beat you to the punch by a wide margin LoUs 2. Ellie, if you're listening I suggest you pay attention wisely to either Travis Touchdown or Lady. They've got stories for you. Will it be worth it?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Which to me would be the "I'm out" point, because Joel and Ellie were some of the only sympathetic characters in TLoU and taking that away leaves grimdark all the way down.

We'll see when it comes out.

It's actually made me understand a bit better what worked in TLoU (for me). Despite the post-apocalypse, despite the zombies and the kill or be killed, very few if any of the characters were malicious. Even Tess, who's kind of a ruthless *****, changes gears once she realizes there might be some hope for a cure. Joel is never out for vengeange, and when he kills he isn't shown to take any sort of joy or catharsis from it. And it's all done in order to guard a kid. Even then it still walks a tightrope. With this sequel's apparent theme of hate and vengeange it just feels like that balance gets completely obliterated.

I'd be somewhat okay with the whole vengeange angle if it has proper motivation - I'm still holding out the slightest of hope that this Dina character turns out to be an informant/traitor working for one of these two enemy factions, and that this is what causes whatever catastrophe will occur - but if it's just 'Ellie's mad cuz her girlfriend gets killed' then fuck this game. Not only would it be very out of character and petulant of Ellie, it would be the biggest 'bury your gays' trope I'd have seen in fiction in years. I know Naughty Dog has royally fucked up a character before, what with Sully apparently taking a 14-year old Nathan Drake under his wing and nuturing his criminal ways, and Uncharted 3 trying to pass this off as some sort of deep father/son relationship. But you'd think with them tooting their own horn over how inclussive and LGBTQ friendly they are in their games, they wouldn't step into one of the biggest gay tropes in fiction.

At this point I'm just looking forward to this whole trash fire to be over so we can all move on.

That is when I actually, physically, hated Kratos with a passion. I never cared much for him to begin with, but I found him entertaining for a time. That's why I was originally pissed that he would still be alive in God of War 4. I'd still prefer if they had a more original story, that did not involve him, but at least became a decent person trying to do the actual right thing. The chemistry between him and a Atreus, I found more enjoyable and enteraining than Joel and Ellie. Joel I never cared much for either, and Ellie I just found okay. Spekaing of the whole vengance cycle thing, but I am not impressed. I've done it too many times to count, no matter the media. Here's the games that do it best, Silent Hill 3, Devil May Cry 3, No More Heroes in general, Nier, and Nier: Automata beat you to the punch by a wide margin LoUs 2. Ellie, if you're listening I suggest you pay attention wisely to either Travis Touchdown or Lady. They've got stories for you. Will it be worth it?

I was actually recently thinking how cool it would be if TLoU2 was just 20+ hours of Ellie enjoying a relaxing life with her girlfriend in Jackson. Just riding horses, taking care of the local community, maybe a PTSD flashback...

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It is really fucking nasty though, in a way that makes me feel 'Do I actually want to join Ellie on this trip?' I was seriously thinking during this State of Play 'Can't Ellie just knock this guy out and tie him up? Does she need to horrifically shank him to death?' And I mean, the first game was pretty violent, but here it feels a lot more vicious and cruel. And in this State of Play especially they seem to want to draw attention to how much more cruel and vicious it is. They specifically wanted the audience to hear that dog yelp out in pain as it horribly burned alive. It's like Naughty Dog thought 'The first game was really violent and people liked that, so let's do that even more.' The second trailer was likely already an indicator, with someone getting their elbow hammered in in centre frame. The most explicit violence in the first game (within cutscenes) usually happened off screen or quickly cut away the second it hit, whether it was Joel breaking someone's arm, jamming a knife in their kneecap, or Ellie hacking someone's face into mulch.

God of War 3 showed how easy it is for a developer to feed into the apparently increasing appetite of the gaming public for violence, until suddenly you're shoving an innocent slave girl into a gear to get crushed. And with every trailer of TLoU2 so far I'm getting similar vibes to God of War 3; just kinda mean and hateful.

Stepping away from the violence... With all the footage I've seen thus far the game also looks incredibly drab. And I know, 'well duh, it's the post-apocalypse', but that didn't stop the first game from having very strak colours and actually looking very beautiful despite society lying in ruin. In TLoU2 everything either seems drenched in rain or drenched in mud.

I don't know, this might be a grimdark too far.

Yeah they’re definitely trying to make a point; like in a “Forget Nathan Drake choking people to sleep. Here’s how death really looks!” Probably trying to drive home the point that it’s a brutal world with an unusually large percentage of horrible people because *combat and revenge themes*.

It’s still beautiful though. I especially like the snowy areas drenched in sunlight, and the rainy areas are probably in the PNW wilderness heading towards Seattle. Maybe the rain is supposed to help people get in a somber mood while murdering about as Ellie? Idk, but I’ve never been one to be depressed by weather in general.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Aaaand here’s the first of probably several DF impressions.

CliffsNotes:

Spoiler: Surprise!

Technically and artistically speaking, it’ll be to the PS4 what the original game was to the PS3.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah they’re definitely trying to make a point; like in a “Forget Nathan Drake choking people to sleep. Here’s how death really looks!” Probably trying to drive home the point that it’s a brutal world with an unusually large percentage of horrible people because *combat and revenge themes*.

It just comes across as not only obnoxious, but numbing. I'm fine with uncomfortably extreme violence in order to prove a point, but when it becomes a routine part of the gameplay cycle it loses its effect as well as making the game feel like it's crying out for your attention. Like imagine if Heavy Rain had a finger-cutting scene every other chapter. You'd be 'Yes game, I get, it's really horrible. Maybe try something else to get a response out of me.'

It’s still beautiful though. I especially like the snowy areas drenched in sunlight, and the rainy areas are probably in the PNW wilderness heading towards Seattle. Maybe the rain is supposed to help people get in a somber mood while murdering about as Ellie? Idk, but I’ve never been one to be depressed by weather in general.

It's not that it's depressing, it's just not very visually interesting. The snowy areas look nice, but everything else looks completely drained of any colour, when that's one thing Naughty Dog has always been pretty good at.

 

[Catfood220]

It is really fucking nasty though, in a way that makes me feel 'Do I actually want to join Ellie on this trip?' I was seriously thinking during this State of Play 'Can't Ellie just knock this guy out and tie him up? Does she need to horrifically shank him to death?' And I mean, the first game was pretty violent, but here it feels a lot more vicious and cruel. And in this State of Play especially they seem to want to draw attention to how much more cruel and vicious it is. They specifically wanted the audience to hear that dog yelp out in pain as it horribly burned alive.

Yeah, the dog crying out in pain as it burned, I just thought to myself "why does anyone want to do that?" Even if its not a real dog, who wants that in a video game? That's not fun to me. Anyone remember when Naughty Dog made enjoyable action games? Say what you like about Nathan Drake, he never went around setting fire to dogs.