National Guard called into Minneapolis

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lil devils x

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Except his narcissistic nature, and ego will probably nag at him if he ends up just being a "1 Termer" President. He will probably see it as a slight on his masculinity and godhood, and will thus push to do 2 terms, just so nobody can accuse him of not being as long lasting as Obama.
He is a fake, and he knows it. His ego would accept a 1 term president because he fakes EVERYTHING he has done ever. He found it acceptable to have a fake inauguration cake, he fraudulently misrepresented his wealth to investors, he had a fake scam school where he personally instructed instructors on how to scam people. He has conned his way through everything he has ever done here. It doesn't matter whether he actually does well or not, he always takes it as a win regardless and presents it that way. He lost his father's fortune and dealt with it by lying, that is all he does win or lose and he has lost more than the presidency in his lifetime, he will just spin it however he chooses. He would just treat it like it was stolen, not that he lost here. he will cry voter fraud, he will cry set up and rigged, but still leave office.
 

happyninja42

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He is a fake, and he knows it. His ego would accept a 1 term president because he fakes EVERYTHING he has done ever. He found it acceptable to have a fake inauguration cake, he fraudulently misrepresented his wealth to investors, he had a fake scam school where he personally instructed instructors on how to scam people. He has conned his way through everything he has ever done here. It doesn't matter whether he actually does well or not, he always takes it as a win regardless and presents it that way. He lost his father's fortune and dealt with it by lying, that is all he does win or lose and he has lost more than the presidency in his lifetime, he will just spin it however he chooses. He would just treat it like it was stolen, not that he lost here. he will cry voter fraud, he will cry set up and rigged, but still leave office.
Oh I'm not referring to him refusing to leave office, I was more quoting your last line about him not wanting the job. I just think, not wanting it isn't necessarily enough for him. Given how petty he is, and completely fragile his ego is, I think he will still try and run a second time, with a genuine desire for the job. If only to show up his enemies, and prove he's as long lasting and has as much stamina as Obama. And yes the dick references are on purpose, as I suspect that's how his brain will process it. Just base, lizard brain, alpha male, dickbag concepts of "I've got a bigger, more functional penis than them." I mean, sure he might justify it in his head, and to others using other terms. But deep down, that's why he will want the job a second term. He likes playing Petty King, and ranting at the filthy peasants, and threatening them with governmental violence. It clearly gets him off.
 

Yoshi

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Im an essential worker as well. The only good thing about all this is the drive to work
nah i have no drive to work right now.
the only reason i don't quit is because i know the $1100 centrelink payment is only temporary until the end of the VID

it's ironic how just over the past couple of years those rich politician snobs have been trying to claim that people are fine on $550 a fortnight and that everyone just abuse's the system, then as soon as the virus gets everyone into trouble including the people with the high paid jobs they turn right around and say "oh no $550 isn't nearly enough, let's give people $1100 per fortnight while WE'RE not working".
then once the rich are all settled and can go back to their high paid jobs, those poor people on centrelink will go straight to being as poor as they were before. who cares about them?
 

Revnak

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It is absolute bullshit to say to the suffering, righteously angry, and oppressed “we hear you, but you must phrase your anger in a way that does not threaten us.” It is bullshit to hear this from those who oppress them. It is a grave injustice to tell the people this system has wounded that in caring for their wounds they must abide by this system’s rules. As these brutal thugs, these domestic terrorists, these police bring down suffering on anyone who demands they change in so much as an uncivil tone, why do we place the blame for it all on their victims? Because we are cowards. Because we refuse to imagine the society we live in has never been just, never cared for the weak, never ruled by consent. When the beast that rules over you demands you express your discontent within your chains, break the goddamn chains.
And for those claiming this is idealistic, childish, tell me, if our leadership is so brutal and corrupt as to justify this, what damnable logic leads you to believe they will listen to our peaceful hymns? What absurd reasoning leads you to believe that if we de-escalate, the police will listen, the politicians will listen, corporate America will listen? They will not listen. They have not been listening. So change the language. Rather, stop asking for change. Demand it. Make it. Seize this change with your own damn hands. Because the hands with the power right now will not fucking listen. They refuse.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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People here seem to be ignoring something.

Trump's plan initially seemed to be to run for President and fail.

His failure was going to lead to him turning round to try and blame the media being so biased against him and launch Trump TV network this supposed big media venture.

Trump likely never wanted to even end up as the Republican Candidate let alone president. Things got out of control and likely Trump felt he was in too deep at that point to get out.

If Trump loses he will just do this anyway. Trump TV will become a thing and his ego will be fine as he gets to preach to the public all he lives via his news network as such.
 

Trunkage

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If I may say in the politest terms I can, you're not well informed. The pictures of kids in cages weren't from the Trump administration. There is no law making the president sell off their companies. The Ukrainian aid mess involved no crimes whatsoever. Not even the articles of impeachment listed actual broken statutes, not that they are required to, but that makes them utterly irrelevant to this argument. Not a single one of your examples of Trump breaking the law are actually Trump breaking the law.

And that's also not the point. Republicans don't believe whatever Trump says is the Republican way. That's Democratic spin, through and through. If Trump disrespects the law, that says nothing of Republicans as a whole. Nothing at all. Now, I will say, his behavior in this crisis is the first time I've really seen Republicans breaking from Trump. But that isn't loyalty to Trump. That's because every crisis in the Trump administration prior to covid-19 was manufactured political crap. All of them. Ukraine, Russia Kavanaugh... it's just a giant pile of garbage glued together by abject lies. Otherwise, his presidency has been doing whatever congress tells him to (which is the job of the POTUS) and arguing about a big wall. We don't work for Trump, he works for us. Coronavirus was a real crisis, and he handled it fine. Hell, he handled it with federalism, we love that crap. A president that sees a human crisis and relinquishes power to counter it is a Republican dream. But a president that sees a crisis of law and order and chooses to hide away and defend only himself is not.
Yeah, all of this is a word rhyming with tin. Yep, the Dems did spin. Doesn't mean the GOP didnt either.

Hunter Biden should have sunk Joe but it didn't. The sex abuse allegations should have sunk Bill Clinton and Trump but it didn't. That's not how the world worms

We will see on this case whether Republicans hold him to account. I'm not holding my breath.
 
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XsjadoBlayde

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Wow. The offending police humans appear to exploiting these protests as an excuse to take out their suppressed rage against the populace without the usual fears of pinpointed individual criticism. Accelerationists must be seeing this is their golden goose moment. There is no defense for that behaviour. It's bullying plain and simple.
 

tippy2k2

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It is absolute bullshit to say to the suffering, righteously angry, and oppressed “we hear you, but you must phrase your anger in a way that does not threaten us.” It is bullshit to hear this from those who oppress them. It is a grave injustice to tell the people this system has wounded that in caring for their wounds they must abide by this system’s rules. As these brutal thugs, these domestic terrorists, these police bring down suffering on anyone who demands they change in so much as an uncivil tone, why do we place the blame for it all on their victims? Because we are cowards. Because we refuse to imagine the society we live in has never been just, never cared for the weak, never ruled by consent. When the beast that rules over you demands you express your discontent within your chains, break the goddamn chains.
And for those claiming this is idealistic, childish, tell me, if our leadership is so brutal and corrupt as to justify this, what damnable logic leads you to believe they will listen to our peaceful hymns? What absurd reasoning leads you to believe that if we de-escalate, the police will listen, the politicians will listen, corporate America will listen? They will not listen. They have not been listening. So change the language. Rather, stop asking for change. Demand it. Make it. Seize this change with your own damn hands. Because the hands with the power right now will not fucking listen. They refuse.
peaceful.jpg
 

Dwarvenhobble

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It is absolute bullshit to say to the suffering, righteously angry, and oppressed “we hear you, but you must phrase your anger in a way that does not threaten us.” It is bullshit to hear this from those who oppress them.
The issue of phrasing is it's the phrasing mixed with the seemingly ever shifting goals.

All 4 cops in the video were immediately fired from a legal perspective 3 hadn't don't anything wrong. From a Moral one you could argue that the 3 were morally in the wrong for not acting to stop their fellow officer but legally the Supreme court rules the Police don't have a duty to protect everyone and there is no law saying being a witness and refusing to act to prevent a death is a crime in itself.

However people wanted legal actions so they're trying the cop who knelt on George Loyd's neck with 4th degree murder. However for some this wasn't enough and they wanted him charged with 1st Degree which while having a longer sentence it requires evidence it was planned pre-meditated murder and the evidence wouldn't support a conviction there which could let the Cop walk.

Things have evolved since them with all kinds of different demands. Some wanting laws passed around Police and Body Camera (Fair I'd say) Some wanting independent conduit review boards (Again fair I'd say as long as some on the board were ex police in good standing who could explain about police training and threat assessment and reasoning etc). Then there are people demanding A national emergency be declared in relation to racism (not gonna happen it's a pointless gesture that will do nothing really) The was some demands I saw the other night calling for ~$17.2 Trillion from the government to be paid to Black people as reparations (works out to something like $350,000 per black person) The thing is that won't happen because it won't really be going just to those were were slave but also it would be going to any Black person who say moved to the USA or their family moved to the USA long after Slavery ended. It also won't happen because it would basically bankrupt the USA by pushing it up from $24.95 Trillion.

The issue is there's no clear end goal and no solid "Do this" marker.

So when you have some-one on the news like was interviewed here in the UK and they say

"Black people are angry, they're not being heard and I don't know how much longer I and others can hold back their anger against you white people"

Or words to that effect it does come off as a threat and with no clear "Do this" way to stop it people will be preparing to face the actual threat being said.

Which added with the stupid stuff like "We're coming to the suburbs next" on social media from a few rioters etc it's going to make people think threat is coming and it's one they see no clear way to prevent coming.

If the riots and burning are also anger being held back then the question has to be what happens when it's not being held back?

Conversely one of the things Trump does well is Threats.

"If Governors don't retake control and reinforce the rule of law and order I will sent the military in to do it for them"

It's a far clearer do this or this happens. Even if it has some room for interpretation it's sill a far more solid set of reasoning.

Also the protests are good but so many seem to be targeting the wrong thing. They're targeting the police. They're protesting at the police. They're getting angry at and yelling at random police officers in the line in some cases. The Police don't have the true power to enforce change, the politicians and lawmakers do. Those protesters who have marched to court houses or are doing so outside the whitehouse, they're at least targeting the right people. There's little point in this case protesting the hammer that bangs on the anvil for doing so when it's the person holding it in control.

The Riots and rioters need to be made to be see in the public eyes as separate to the protests and protesters so there is no attempting to frame the riots as people trying to be heard because otherwise people are only going to be hearing a metaphorical fist to the face and in my experience people don't tend to be very co-operative right after that and won't be too keen listening to what you have to say rather than getting ready to defend themselves ready for another first coming. The Protesters have been doing a damn good job by turning in Rioters and Looters and violent members of the crowd to the Police and calling out rioters and looters while calling for the protests to be peaceful.


It is a grave injustice to tell the people this system has wounded that in caring for their wounds they must abide by this system’s rules.
The problem is in one respect the system was built to prevent further harm to others.

Admittedly the protesters are doing nothing wrong.

The Rioters however are.

The Rioters rather than healing how the system says they should are jabbing a knife into the wound and cutting further.

As these brutal thugs, these domestic terrorists, these police bring down suffering on anyone who demands they change in so much as an uncivil tone, why do we place the blame for it all on their victims? Because we are cowards. Because we refuse to imagine the society we live in has never been just, never cared for the weak, never ruled by consent. When the beast that rules over you demands you express your discontent within your chains, break the goddamn chains.
And for those claiming this is idealistic, childish, tell me, if our leadership is so brutal and corrupt as to justify this, what damnable logic leads you to believe they will listen to our peaceful hymns? What absurd reasoning leads you to believe that if we de-escalate, the police will listen, the politicians will listen, corporate America will listen? They will not listen. They have not been listening. So change the language. Rather, stop asking for change. Demand it. Make it. Seize this change with your own damn hands. Because the hands with the power right now will not fucking listen. They refuse.
Constant annoyance can do far more than a blow to the face.

Gandhi proved how powerful nonviolent resistance can be.

Corporate America already just sees this as a chance to get free advertising by pretending to pander to people. They care about little other than money in the end.
 

Revnak

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The issue of phrasing is it's the phrasing mixed with the seemingly ever shifting goals.

All 4 cops in the video were immediately fired from a legal perspective 3 hadn't don't anything wrong. From a Moral one you could argue that the 3 were morally in the wrong for not acting to stop their fellow officer but legally the Supreme court rules the Police don't have a duty to protect everyone and there is no law saying being a witness and refusing to act to prevent a death is a crime in itself.

However people wanted legal actions so they're trying the cop who knelt on George Loyd's neck with 4th degree murder. However for some this wasn't enough and they wanted him charged with 1st Degree which while having a longer sentence it requires evidence it was planned pre-meditated murder and the evidence wouldn't support a conviction there which could let the Cop walk.

Things have evolved since them with all kinds of different demands. Some wanting laws passed around Police and Body Camera (Fair I'd say) Some wanting independent conduit review boards (Again fair I'd say as long as some on the board were ex police in good standing who could explain about police training and threat assessment and reasoning etc). Then there are people demanding A national emergency be declared in relation to racism (not gonna happen it's a pointless gesture that will do nothing really) The was some demands I saw the other night calling for ~$17.2 Trillion from the government to be paid to Black people as reparations (works out to something like $350,000 per black person) The thing is that won't happen because it won't really be going just to those were were slave but also it would be going to any Black person who say moved to the USA or their family moved to the USA long after Slavery ended. It also won't happen because it would basically bankrupt the USA by pushing it up from $24.95 Trillion.

The issue is there's no clear end goal and no solid "Do this" marker.

So when you have some-one on the news like was interviewed here in the UK and they say

"Black people are angry, they're not being heard and I don't know how much longer I and others can hold back their anger against you white people"

Or words to that effect it does come off as a threat and with no clear "Do this" way to stop it people will be preparing to face the actual threat being said.

Which added with the stupid stuff like "We're coming to the suburbs next" on social media from a few rioters etc it's going to make people think threat is coming and it's one they see no clear way to prevent coming.

If the riots and burning are also anger being held back then the question has to be what happens when it's not being held back?

Conversely one of the things Trump does well is Threats.

"If Governors don't retake control and reinforce the rule of law and order I will sent the military in to do it for them"

It's a far clearer do this or this happens. Even if it has some room for interpretation it's sill a far more solid set of reasoning.

Also the protests are good but so many seem to be targeting the wrong thing. They're targeting the police. They're protesting at the police. They're getting angry at and yelling at random police officers in the line in some cases. The Police don't have the true power to enforce change, the politicians and lawmakers do. Those protesters who have marched to court houses or are doing so outside the whitehouse, they're at least targeting the right people. There's little point in this case protesting the hammer that bangs on the anvil for doing so when it's the person holding it in control.

The Riots and rioters need to be made to be see in the public eyes as separate to the protests and protesters so there is no attempting to frame the riots as people trying to be heard because otherwise people are only going to be hearing a metaphorical fist to the face and in my experience people don't tend to be very co-operative right after that and won't be too keen listening to what you have to say rather than getting ready to defend themselves ready for another first coming. The Protesters have been doing a damn good job by turning in Rioters and Looters and violent members of the crowd to the Police and calling out rioters and looters while calling for the protests to be peaceful.




The problem is in one respect the system was built to prevent further harm to others.

Admittedly the protesters are doing nothing wrong.

The Rioters however are.

The Rioters rather than healing how the system says they should are jabbing a knife into the wound and cutting further.



Constant annoyance can do far more than a blow to the face.

Gandhi proved how powerful nonviolent resistance can be.

Corporate America already just sees this as a chance to get free advertising by pretending to pander to people. They care about little other than money in the end.
I don’t care what you have to bring to the conversation because you don’t care about the people having it.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Some of those people objected to mostly because it was turning them into political arenas and directing the political messaging at people who in said instances were likely trying to get away from politics for a bit.

To give a prudent recent example and argument. Moviebob's The Big Picture on the ending of the new She-RA where he points out that if real world issues of homophobia and self questioning etc were brought up as issues then it wouldn't have offered the Escapism of a world without that.

People Just out protesting I have no objection to that, I dunno who really would. It's when it's seen to be entering other arenas it becomes an issue.

The argument that "They play the National Anthem so it's already Political in American sports" is kind of a stretch.

People go to those games to relax and get away from things like politics and the last thing they want is a person paid probably 10 times or more what they are telling them how they need to be better people and need to somehow do something, especially when there's not a clear how to do it.

Worse no-one outside of people whose sole hobby is politics wants to open the door and have more politics streaming into sportball. People watching Sportsball don't want a 30 minute discussion on the environmental impact of the game before it starts or how the Leather ball and Leather shoes is harmful because they're made from animal products.

Worse most Sportball fans can't do anything really to affect any changes and may very much believe in the movements ideas but everyone needs an escape from things now and again, a place to relax and to forget about stuff in the rest of the world for a bit of time.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Some of those people objected to mostly because it was turning them into political arenas and directing the political messaging at people who in said instances were likely trying to get away from politics for a bit.

To give a prudent recent example and argument. Moviebob's The Big Picture on the ending of the new She-RA where he points out that if real world issues of homophobia and self questioning etc were brought up as issues then it wouldn't have offered the Escapism of a world without that.

People Just out protesting I have no objection to that, I dunno who really would. It's when it's seen to be entering other arenas it becomes an issue.

The argument that "They play the National Anthem so it's already Political in American sports" is kind of a stretch.

People go to those games to relax and get away from things like politics and the last thing they want is a person paid probably 10 times or more what they are telling them how they need to be better people and need to somehow do something, especially when there's not a clear how to do it.

Worse no-one outside of people whose sole hobby is politics wants to open the door and have more politics streaming into sportball. People watching Sportsball don't want a 30 minute discussion on the environmental impact of the game before it starts or how the Leather ball and Leather shoes is harmful because they're made from animal products.

Worse most Sportball fans can't do anything really to affect any changes and may very much believe in the movements ideas but everyone needs an escape from things now and again, a place to relax and to forget about stuff in the rest of the world for a bit of time.
You're missing the point when you think a protest should sit in a neat box where people can ignore it as they please, because if that's what happens then the people it's meant to reach and put pressure on will do just that.

Edit: Like, you're literally illustrating the exact problem the image points out. Oh no you can't do it this way or that way, the only acceptable protest ends up being a protest that has no bite or effectiveness and you can turn your head away from.
 

lil devils x

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The issue of phrasing is it's the phrasing mixed with the seemingly ever shifting goals.

All 4 cops in the video were immediately fired from a legal perspective 3 hadn't don't anything wrong. From a Moral one you could argue that the 3 were morally in the wrong for not acting to stop their fellow officer but legally the Supreme court rules the Police don't have a duty to protect everyone and there is no law saying being a witness and refusing to act to prevent a death is a crime in itself.

However people wanted legal actions so they're trying the cop who knelt on George Loyd's neck with 4th degree murder. However for some this wasn't enough and they wanted him charged with 1st Degree which while having a longer sentence it requires evidence it was planned pre-meditated murder and the evidence wouldn't support a conviction there which could let the Cop walk.
If you think from a legal perspective that the 3 officers complicit in George Floyd's didn't do anything wrong here, that is the problem you should start with solving.

From my understanding, they were going to prove the charges against the first officer in order to know which charges to apply to the other officers, not that they are not going to be charged at all here at all, or that there is nothing legally wrong with what they did.


If a person holds down the legs of a victim while they are being murdered, they are an accomplice. If they kneel on the person while they are being murdered, they are an accomplice. The officers were assisting with the arrest, thus were also partially responsible for the actions taken during that arrest.

 
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Dwarvenhobble

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I don’t care what you have to bring to the conversation because you don’t care about the people having it.
Well if you mean care about you personally, well acting in a condescending manner and dismissing without showing you've even tried to engage is really going to help that I'm sure and you should totally keep going rather than actually try to engage with the points I'm raising to try and explain different perspectives.

I mean I do care about the people the conversation impacts because I do want to see the system change to protect them. I also don't want to see this chance get blown to make that change based on either people LARPing as revolutionaries or whatever

You're missing the point when you think a protest should sit in a neat box where people can ignore it as they please, because if that's what happens then the people it's meant to reach and put pressure on will do just that.
Which is why I said it was good protesting outside courthouses and the whitehouse.

Hell stage planned protests in towns so part of the town is basically shut down for a bit (with it being known about in advance).

You'll not be pressuring the President government by yelling in the face of one Jobsworth police officer. That Officer will likely just blank it out because they can't change much and there's nothing they can personally do really.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Which is why I said it was good protesting outside courthouses and the whitehouse.

Hell stage planned protests in towns so part of the town is basically shut down for a bit (with it being known about in advance).

You'll not be pressuring the President government by yelling in the face of one Jobsworth police officer. That Officer will likely just blank it out because they can't change much and there's nothing they can personally do really.
Making it visible for the entire nation instead of just at a select few is going to make more of an impact. You protest outside the WH and some courthouses and... you think elected officials are forced to care for the most part? They're really not. You cause a fuss that gets national attention, that can't be ignored when you decide you want to shut it off and watch sports, that keeps things on the table.

And really, in the end. They don't get to shut off the issues, why should people get to just shut off politics whenever they want while the problem persists.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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If you think from a legal perspective that the 3 officers complicit in George Floyd's didn't do anything wrong here, that is the problem you should start with solving.

From my understanding they were going to prove the charges against The first officer in order to know which charges to apply to the other officers, not that they are not going to be charged at all here.

Well it's a tough one with the 3

You can't charge them with something like failure to prevent a death or Accessory to 4th degree murder because then anyone failing to act vs such a case could be charged too which would mean say security guards who failed to tackle a a Robber who shot a hostage could also be charged as an accessory or similar nonsense.

They can't be charged with Dereliction of duty because of supreme court precedent on another ruling that states Officers aren't obliged to protect everyone. They could try but it would be fighting against precedent which is tough to do.
 

Houseman

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My opinion: Romans 12:17-21
"Do not pay anyone back evil for evil, but focus your thoughts on what is right in the sight of all people. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live in peace with all people. Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will pay them back, declares the Lord.” But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him. For if he is thirsty, give him a drink. If you do this, you will pile burning coals on his head.” Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good."
 

Revnak

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Well if you mean care about you personally, well acting in a condescending manner and dismissing without showing you've even tried to engage is really going to help that I'm sure and you should totally keep going rather than actually try to engage with the points I'm raising to try and explain different perspectives.
You don’t give a single fuck about the police brutality at these events, just concern trolling for the cops. Therefore you do not care about the protesters, just the security of your undoubtedly middle class or better lifestyle.

I mean I do care about the people the conversation impacts because I do want to see the system change to protect them. I also don't want to see this chance get blown to make that change based on either people LARPing as revolutionaries or whatever
You want the system to change so far as it does not affect you. And to decry “LARPing as revolutionaries” is to decry nearly every person in this country who has ever moved the needle a single inch on human rights. Malcolm, the Panthers, Stonewall, the Abolitionist movement, John Brown, the very founders, all fall into that category. You are ignorant of any and all history and thus doomed to repeat it through the same liberal moderate concern bullshit that has doomed every solution to the fucking tragedy we have found ourselves in.
 

lil devils x

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Well it's a tough one with the 3

You can't charge them with something like failure to prevent a death or Accessory to 4th degree murder because then anyone failing to act vs such a case could be charged too which would mean say security guards who failed to tackle a a Robber who shot a hostage could also be charged as an accessory or similar nonsense.

They can't be charged with Dereliction of duty because of supreme court precedent on another ruling that states Officers aren't obliged to protect everyone. They could try but it would be fighting against precedent which is tough to do.
They were participants in the arrest, not just witnesses. They are not obliged to protect everyone, they are however obliged to protect everyone IN THEIR CUSTODY. They were the ones responsible for his life once they prevented him from having responsibility for his own life.
 
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