Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled

[Thaluikhain]

Oh these people aren't PoC's therefore the analogy doesn't apply.

What fucking difference does it make? Racism is racism period.

The X-Men were originally a metaphor for the US Civil Rights movement (and, to an extent, LGBT people), back when a metaphor was about as daring as people were game to be.

The makers of the X-Men films decided to have almost no black people, and totally no LGBT people, in a franchise originally about the oppression of black and LGBT people. I'd also note there's at least 4 major characters in the franchise that, presumably purely by chance, are played by LGBT actors.

(I believe Mystique might be bisexual in the comics, but there's no evidence of that whatsoever in the films)

 

[CriticalGaming]

The X-Men were originally a metaphor for the US Civil Rights movement (and, to an extent, LGBT people), back when a metaphor was about as daring as people were game to be.

The makers of the X-Men films decided to have almost no black people, and totally no LGBT people, in a franchise originally about the oppression of black and LGBT people. I'd also note there's at least 4 major characters in the franchise that, presumably purely by chance, are played by LGBT actors.

(I believe Mystique might be bisexual in the comics, but there's no evidence of that whatsoever in the films)

Again it is just a metaphor presented as an action comic. So i dont see why they needed it to directly put character of IRL orientation with in. The original xmen cast was quite small featuring two women and three men iirc. Four men if you count prof x, and he was a handicap character which is pretty rare too.

As more characters came out over the years i remember it getting more diverse.

Btw does mystique count as a PoC since she was blue? Or Nightcrawler since he was purple? Does that count? That counts right? They are literally colored.

 

[BrawlMan]

The X-Men were originally a metaphor for the US Civil Rights movement (and, to an extent, LGBT people), back when a metaphor was about as daring as people were game to be.

The makers of the X-Men films decided to have almost no black people, and totally no LGBT people, in a franchise originally about the oppression of black and LGBT people. I'd also note there's at least 4 major characters in the franchise that, presumably purely by chance, are played by LGBT actors.

(I believe Mystique might be bisexual in the comics, but there's no evidence of that whatsoever in the films)

Thank you. Someone gets it.

 

[BrawlMan]

We're talking about the people who screamed about "SJW pandering" when Idris Elba (a black man) was cast as Heimdall, but said "Hollywood needs to use bankable actors" when Scarlett Johannsson (a white woman) was cast as Motoko Kusanagi. Logic need not apply, and will probably be called an SJW if it tries.

To add to further irony, the original director of The Animated Ghost in the Shell defended the decision to use Scarlett johansson. So did the original English voice actor for Motoko as well. For even more frustrating irony, the Japanese actually like to live action movie for the same reasons they hated on the original animated movie back in 1995. What the hell guys? What the actual hell? I'm more so referring to the Japanese audience reception in this case.

Original Ghost in the Shell director defends Scarlett Johansson casting

'What issue could there possibly be with casting her?'

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Hawki]

The X-Men were originally a metaphor for the US Civil Rights movement (and, to an extent, LGBT people), back when a metaphor was about as daring as people were game to be.

The makers of the X-Men films decided to have almost no black people, and totally no LGBT people, in a franchise originally about the oppression of black and LGBT people. I'd also note there's at least 4 major characters in the franchise that, presumably purely by chance, are played by LGBT actors.

(I believe Mystique might be bisexual in the comics, but there's no evidence of that whatsoever in the films)

I don't really buy this line of argument.

If you have a metaphor for something, but also have the 'thing' the metaphor is based on, then why bother with a metaphor at all? It reminds me of Harry Potter - the 7th book goes full on with Nazi parallels, with "mudbloods" being Jews, but then you have people complaining about the lack of Jewish characters. I...what? That's not how metaphors work. It's basically saying that metaphor and allagory shouldn't be used, or if it is used, have it be redundant.

Also, to be frank (and you guys are probably sick of hearing this), I've never really bought the idea of X-Men as a metaphor for any such group (or at least a good metaphor), because in-universe, people have good reason to be afraid of mutants, with a lot of mutants actively seeking the eradication/subjugation of humans. I'll let your imagination run wild as to how that metaphor angle might go.

Also, it's telling that when X2 tries to harp in on the angle (when Bobby's mother asks him "have you ever tried not being a mutant?") we get some of the most stupid dialogue ever put to screen. I mean, I know what it's referencing, and I can imagine that such questions would occur for people in real life, but you can't apply real-life to metaphor/allagory 1:1 and get the same results.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Also, to be frank (and you guys are probably sick of hearing this), I've never really bought the idea of X-Men as a metaphor for any such group (or at least a good metaphor), because in-universe, people have good reason to be afraid of mutants, with a lot of mutants actively seeking the eradication/subjugation of humans. I'll let your imagination run wild as to how that metaphor angle might go.

Also, it's telling that when X2 tries to harp in on the angle (when Bobby's mother asks him "have you ever tried not being a mutant?") we get some of the most stupid dialogue ever put to screen. I mean, I know what it's referencing, and I can imagine that such questions would occur for people in real life, but you can't apply real-life to metaphor/allagory 1:1 and get the same results.

Yep, the metaphor is certainly clumsily handled, and not really that great an idea anyway with all the supervillain stuff.

 

[ObsidianJones]

I don't really buy this line of argument.

If you have a metaphor for something, but also have the 'thing' the metaphor is based on, then why bother with a metaphor at all? It reminds me of Harry Potter - the 7th book goes full on with Nazi parallels, with "mudbloods" being Jews, but then you have people complaining about the lack of Jewish characters. I...what? That's not how metaphors work. It's basically saying that metaphor and allagory shouldn't be used, or if it is used, have it be redundant.

Also, to be frank (and you guys are probably sick of hearing this), I've never really bought the idea of X-Men as a metaphor for any such group (or at least a good metaphor), because in-universe, people have good reason to be afraid of mutants, with a lot of mutants actively seeking the eradication/subjugation of humans. I'll let your imagination run wild as to how that metaphor angle might go.

Also, it's telling that when X2 tries to harp in on the angle (when Bobby's mother asks him "have you ever tried not being a mutant?") we get some of the most stupid dialogue ever put to screen. I mean, I know what it's referencing, and I can imagine that such questions would occur for people in real life, but you can't apply real-life to metaphor/allagory 1:1 and get the same results.

Really? Like a Empath able to change the minds of people with just a word and change normal people into murderous fiends without a second thought?

Or how someone can shoot a person in broad daylight and everyone looks away like he was invisible?

Or having the ability to change reality in a second?

Or someone able to Spawn henchmen in a moment's notice to overwhelm you?

The subversion of comic books is what if the minority in the world had actual true power instead of the majority. That's the twist that everyone lies, like what if Superman was evil? But while that is the subversion, the message is still the kicker.

It doesn't matter if you can control weather, become strong enough to throw a Truck hundreds of km away, or fly. The Majority will still band together to put you in your place. And even with that vast power... you would still be scared of them. Because they will all turn on you and eventually get you.

In real life, White People might as well been Super Powered to minorities for their entire time in this nation. I've been afraid of white women since I've learned of Emmett Till when I was a kid, so the recent calls on Black Men by white women lying have struck a nerve with me. It's great that you don't see it because you don't see people with nuclear bombs for eyes. But I walk out every day and see a group of people who can say anything about me and literally change my reality for my entire life. And it's accepted as reality. If that isn't a superpower, I do not know what is.

And hey, on point, in the article about how White Supremacy is on the rise, did you notice the Confederate Flag and Trump flags flown close together? It's stuff like that which draws people to make the automatic assumption that Republicanism is tied to Racism and ideas that will harm others. If you want us to stop making that correlation, start telling others to stop showing it to us constantly.

It's like seeing the Sun every day light up the world and saying "Stop assuming The sun has anything to do with the lights! There are machines that you're not even able to see that is really causing the Morning. Why the hell would you really think the Sun has anything to do with it?!"

 

[BrawlMan]

Speaking of X-Men, the My Hero Academia universe. That world has what both the X-Men and Magneto wanted. Though that led to another problem, where those seen as normal or quirk-less are abused by those with power or not seen as much worth in certain regards. A society that the X-Men and several Marvel superheroes would disapprove of. A world of super humans that the mutant haters feared. Something Lex Luthor will go on about, though if he had that power from himself, he would abuse it happily.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Speaking of X-Men, the My Hero Academia universe That world has what both the X-Men and Magneto wanted. Though that led to another problem, were those seen as normal or quirkless are abused by those with power or not much work in certain regards. A society that the X-Men in several Marvel superheroes would disapprove of. A world of superhumans that the mutant haters feared. Something Lex Luthor will go on about, though he had that power from himself, he would abuse it happily.

I think that speaks well to the world that those series' set up. It sparks discussion about the alagories there right? Isn't that how we are supposed to stop racism and shit, talk it out. Like that black dude Darell Davis (IIRC) that literally chills and talks with KKK-members and straight up talks them out of their racism. so even though the comics aren't perfect, (mostly because they have to fit the fiction together) they can at least spark reasonable talks. At least I would hope so.

And that's kind of the problem the left has. Like with Trump for example. Trump is racist and evil and that's the end of it. There would not ever be an attempt to sit someone like Trump down and talk him out of his misguided thoughts. If people aren't willing to reason, then nothing is going to change. Villifying I don't think is the answer, neither is shaming. Look Fat shaming is bad right, and despite doing it, people are still fat. So what's the point of shaming someone if it only reenforces bad habits within a person?

 

[BrawlMan]

I think that speaks well to the world that those series' set up. It sparks discussion about the alagories there right? Isn't that how we are supposed to stop racism and shit, talk it out. Like that black dude Darell Davis (IIRC) that literally chills and talks with KKK-members and straight up talks them out of their racism. so even though the comics aren't perfect, (mostly because they have to fit the fiction together) they can at least spark reasonable talks. At least I would hope so.

And that's kind of the problem the left has. Like with Trump for example. Trump is racist and evil and that's the end of it. There would not ever be an attempt to sit someone like Trump down and talk him out of his misguided thoughts. If people aren't willing to reason, then nothing is going to change. Villifying I don't think is the answer, neither is shaming. Look Fat shaming is bad right, and despite doing it, people are still fat. So what's the point of shaming someone if it only reenforces bad habits within a person?

Don't blame too much on the left. The problem with Trump and most of the Republican party is that they don't want compromise. They don't want to lower themselves to serve those lesser than them. And the same thing goes for the hardcore supporters. They never want to want to compromise unless they're screwing everyone over. All those supporters at the capital riots; they still refuse to accept blame or reality for that matter. Those Republicans are trying to rewrite history. As far as I'm concerned there is no logical reasoning with them. All they do is take, take, and continuously take. A majority of them don't want reason.

 

[CriticalGaming]

The problem with Trump and most of the Republican party is that they don't want compromise.

To be fair, I don't think either side wants compromise.

 

[BrawlMan]

To be fair, I don't think either side wants compromise.

The left does try. They've even tried doing something where both parties benefits, but the Republicans usually said no or wanted to add extra caveats. The reasoning being was because those in the lower class would benefit and that just wrestles their jimmies apparently. Fuck all of them! They even screwing others far less than more times than any of us can count. If they get costly screwed over, I'm not going to cry for them. As far as I'm concerned the Republican party are dicks, pussies, and assholes all rolled into one. AKA B!tch-In-A-Boxstand Party. If you think my hatred for them is bad, wait until you meet my parents. They have even less patience and empathy for a majority of them.

 

[Buyetyen]

The left does try. They've even tried doing something where both parties benefits, but the Republicans usually said no or wanted to add extra caveats.

Anyone who paid attention during the Obama years will remember how hard he tried to compromise with the Republicans. And how badly they screwed him and everyone else over.

Democrats are paid by their donors to lose, which is their biggest problem. The Republicans' biggest problem is that they're anti-democracy.

 

[Schadrach]

so the recent calls on Black Men by white women lying

I thought the very idea that women ever lie about that sort of thing was misogynistic to even suggest? I mean, I'm pretty sure the notion that it's possible for a woman to lie about harm allegedly caused to her by a man is quiteanti-feminist. Or does it go the other way specifically because the man is black and the woman white?

With Indris Elba it's a side roll and viking stuff is often rather white.

I mean, we all know how extremely racially diverse Scandinavia has been, historically. In the case of Idris Elba, he was also playing Heimdall, based on Heimdallr, and at this point I'm just going to quote the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article:

In Norse mythology, Heimdallr is a god who keeps watch for invaders and the onset of Ragnarök from his dwelling Himinbjörg, where the burning rainbow bridge Bifröst meets the sky. He is attested as possessing foreknowledge and keen senses, particularly eyesight and hearing. Heimdallr is also described as,"Shining God" having the whitest skin.

So, yeah, I can see some issue with casting the "Shining God" with the "whitest skin" to a black actor.

It was a dumb complaint but it could be seen as a dumb move by Disney who at the time hadn't done Black Panther or any films like that seemingly. personally I think Elba was wasted on a side character they should have waited until the Xmen were back with Disney and cast him Bishop, because he just has ability to play the attitude needed to be able to pull that off I think.

Bishop could have been a good choice for him, and there are several other black comic characters out there that would have been better choices to introduce than race bending Heimdall. But that's kinda the thing - no one wants to use black characters that already exist, or create new ones - they specifically want to rebrand white characters as black.

and Jimmy Olson is black

Interesting note: Have you ever noticed that when a previously white character gets cast/redesigned as black over the last decade or so, it's a ginger way more often than chance would suggest?

but said "Hollywood needs to use bankable actors" when Scarlett Johannsson (a white woman) was cast as Motoko Kusanagi.

I mean, I would have preferred her to be an Asian actress, FWIW. I get the pressure to have at least one big name in a movie to draw marketing attention though.

 

[Kwak]

I thought the very idea that women ever lie about that sort of thing was misogynistic to even suggest? I mean, I'm pretty sure the notion that it's possible for a woman to lie about harm allegedly caused to her by a man is quiteanti-feminist. Or does it go the other way specifically because the man is black and the woman white?

Why the fuck would you think something so stupid? And bring it up as some kind of counter-argument? What are you even saying?

 

[Avnger]

Why the fuck would you think something so stupid? And bring it up as some kind of counter-argument? What are you even saying?

He seems to be saying that he doesn't understand the concepts of context and nuance.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Why the fuck would you think something so stupid? And bring it up as some kind of counter-argument? What are you even saying?

#believewomen is what he's saying I think.
Any time accusations come up and people doubt them there's people coming out on about why would women lie and they have nothing to gain. Or in the case of some of the more extreme ones even saying when the men disprove it with evidence that it's just proof they're bad men for actually being able to compile and being willing to publish evidence to stop their lives being destroyed.

Hell remember when one of the Gawker sites criticised Max Temkin for going out to have a night out and a drink ONLY 6 months after being accused of rape and denying the accusations providing his own account. No how dare he be allowed to go out and have fun not be praying and penitent and apparently should have instead been doing work to help end rape every evening instead or something.

 

[Kwak]

#believewomen is what he's saying I think.
Any time accusations come up and people doubt them there's people coming out on about why would women lie and they have nothing to gain. Or in the case of some of the more extreme ones even saying when the men disprove it with evidence that it's just proof they're bad men for actually being able to compile and being willing to publish evidence to stop their lives being destroyed.

Hell remember when one of the Gawker sites criticised Max Temkin for going out to have a night out and a drink ONLY 6 months after being accused of rape and denying the accusations providing his own account. No how dare he be allowed to go out and have fun not be praying and penitent and apparently should have instead been doing work to help end rape every evening instead or something.

So the believe the woman who was charged with a hate crime?

Woman Who Falsely Accused Black Teen in SoHo Is Charged With Hate Crime (Published 2021)

The charges against the woman, Miya Ponsetto, stem from an episode at a New York City hotel where she tackled a teenager who she wrongly said had taken her phone.

www.nytimes.com

And if you don't then you're never allowed to believe a woman who says she was sexually assualted? That is just so unbelievably stupid.

 

[Hades]

It is an unfounded claim that Scott is anti-trans as he could have donated for tons of other republican policy he is in favor of. Hell, if I was forced to donate money under some hypothetical situation (gun to the head) to the republicans or democrats right now, I'd probably choose republicans because of how shit the democrats handled covid.

I've said this earlier in the topic but the reasons Scott funded the Republicans really aren't relevant. Because even in the charitable interpretation such funding's were made with the belief that trans people should just get sacrificed for Scott to get the policies he wanted personally. If people being deprived of their rights is considered acceptable collateral damage to get what you want then this says something about you. In this case this argument especially doesn't work because the policies that Scott wants so badly are those of McConnell and Trump. If Scott gets hyped about policies that stem from a seething hatred of poor people, or those designed to replace democracy with Trump then that says something about Scott, and makes his willingness to sacrifice trans rights even more telling.

I find it curious you consider the Democrats to have the worse covid policy. This is quite the feat considering one half of the Republican holds the view that covid doesn't exist, and the other half acknowledges covid does exist but that peoples should be sacrificed to the economy.

 

[Avnger]

covid does exist but that peoples should be sacrificed to the economy.

From the 30+ pages of conversation in other threads, this is the group that Phoenixmgs falls into. He just pretends to justify it by claiming covid isn't "that bad."