Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,262
5,697
118
If you want to talk about CRT and being too into the oppressor dynamic. That’s fine. I’ve already given an example of such a case. But, at least give an example of people not actually being oppressed. Also, CRT generalises way too much, but then your example does too. Eg. Just because you had certain descendants, doesn’t mean they were persecuted personally. Living as an African American in the north of the US is way different from the South
CRT is a strange new animal to me. On one hand I guess it wants something good, but on the other hand it's race-baity and frankly just isn't being put to good use in practice. Especially when it comes to kids. They are teaching kids under 9 this crap and all it does is teach them how to be racist.

Maybe leave CRT to some sort of college course or at LEAST an optional high school elective. I don't like the idea of teaching kids how to be racist before they should even know what racism even is. Especially since CRT on principal is very anti-white, and no kid should be told they're born evil just because.
 

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
6,016
665
118
That’s up to you. If you don’t want to feel guilty based on your identity politics. No one is going to stop you.

But it doesn’t have to be your direct ancestors. It can be your countries ancestors. My family ran away from religious persecution in Prussia, Wales and England. So I understand this not being an oppressor, actually being oppressed thing you were talking about. That doesn’t stop me from looking at Germany and saying ‘let’s not persecute people based on race and religion.’. That happened almost a century after my various lineages left. Nor does it make me look at England and say ‘Colonialism did a good job civilising those savages.’ Because it didn’t. Just because I, or my direct ancestors, didn’t directly persecute Aborigines, doesn’t stop me from feeling guilty that we had to hold a referendum for where they were humans only 50 years ago.

But, then, is this really about oppressed/oppressor? Because, when it comes to this stiff, there is one word that some people get hung up on is - guilt. I see it as a way to help my country not make the same mistakes as it did in the past. I’m not going to denegrate Aboriginals based on stereotypes or say one religion is evil and must be purged, like countries where I came from or now live. Guilt is not a scary word

If you want to talk about CRT and being too into the oppressor dynamic. That’s fine. I’ve already given an example of such a case. But, at least give an example of people not actually being oppressed. Also, CRT generalises way too much, but then your example does too. Eg. Just because you had certain descendants, doesn’t mean they were persecuted personally. Living as an African American in the north of the US is way different from the South
I can see the mindset of "lets not persecuted people..." and very much believe in that ideal but also "The past is another country they do things differently there" very much applied in my view and the relevance of history should be in things still causing an impact in the present rather than feeling responsible for the issues. The responsibility is to be better not to feel some collective guilt.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,060
3,043
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
CRT is a strange new animal to me. On one hand I guess it wants something good, but on the other hand it's race-baity and frankly just isn't being put to good use in practice. Especially when it comes to kids. They are teaching kids under 9 this crap and all it does is teach them how to be racist.

Maybe leave CRT to some sort of college course or at LEAST an optional high school elective. I don't like the idea of teaching kids how to be racist before they should even know what racism even is. Especially since CRT on principal is very anti-white, and no kid should be told they're born evil just because.
CRT does teach someone to be racist. It points out when institutions and laws, usuallly unintentionally, have racist outcomes.

Eg. The war of drugs has incarcerated a lot of African Americans. You could claim that the types of drugs leading to imprisonment were chosen to effect minorities more. Or you could claim it was unintentionally. Either way, CRT would just be pointing our that the law effected minorities more than whites.

People going further than that are now no longer using CRT but their using own biases. I.e. it can definitely be used to make Reagan look like a bad guy when it might have been unintentional. The blame here also doesnt solve the actual problem. In this way, it's like any ideology from Christianity, Islam, Communionism, Capitalism, Nationalism or Atheism. It's ideology can be twisted to punish innocent people.

Like Christianity would be fine if certain Christians stopped trying to force it onto others. It also isn't racist but somehow a bunch of racists used it to justify slavery
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,176
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
CRT does teach someone to be racist. It points out when institutions and laws, usuallly unintentionally, have racist outcomes.

Eg. The war of drugs has incarcerated a lot of African Americans. You could claim that the types of drugs leading to imprisonment were chosen to effect minorities more. Or you could claim it was unintentionally. Either way, CRT would just be pointing our that the law effected minorities more than whites.

People going further than that are now no longer using CRT but their using own biases.
CRT does go beyond what you said though. You could teach 'CRT-lite,' and confine it purely to the idea that certain groups will be impacted more by what are obstensibly neutral laws, but that isn't the be all and end all.

Like Christianity would be fine if certain Christians stopped trying to force it onto others. It also isn't racist but somehow a bunch of racists used it to justify slavery
Well, yeah, but the Bible does justify slavery, period. That people don't use the Bible to justify slavery now is a plus for society, not a plus for the text.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ender910

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
5,805
3,546
118
Country
United States of America
CRT does go beyond what you said though.
about as useful and accurate a statement as basketball play-by-play announcing goes beyond energetically describing a game of basketball. you're confusing a thing for a list of people and things they've said as if phrases like "flying chickens in the barnyard" and "good golly, miss molly" are intrinsic to basketball play-by-play announcing rather than exclamatory phrases used by one Kevin Calabro.

I hope I'm not being too generous by actually giving you a basketball sportscaster in the analogy rather than a snake oil salesman.
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,176
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
about as useful and accurate a statement as basketball play-by-play announcing goes beyond energetically describing a game of basketball. you're confusing a thing for a list of people and things they've said as if phrases like "flying chickens in the barnyard" and "good golly, miss molly" are intrinsic to basketball play-by-play announcing rather than exclamatory phrases used by one Kevin Calabro.
If we're using the basketball analogy, a better one would be if I said "basketball is about people passing a ball to each other on a court," while leaving out stuff like the hoop, and the size of the teams.

For instance, Trunkage said that CRT might look at a law and see how it impacts different groups in different ways, even if the law itself is neutral. That's part of CRT, but not the be-all and end-all. It's leaving out stuff like the following tenents:

-Critique of liberalism/the idea of individual rights, instead forwarding a race-conciousness view of society.

-Emphasis on "lived experience," and the use of storytelling as a means of evidence (in opposition to what we might call anecdotal evidence; this is why you get phrases such as "my truth" or "your truth")

-Use of intersectionality and standpoint theory

-Racism is foundational to how Western society operates (though I've seen some CRT scholars posit that the framework could be applied to pretty much every society)

-Calling out instances of racism, no matter how small (microaggressions), is a key strategy in exposing and defeating it

-Anti-racialism — the myth of colourblindness, which denies the legitimacy of lived experience of racism — is the enemy of anti-racism

-Incremental change is doomed to fail because advances for minorities are only granted when they are in the interests of the dominant group, and are withdrawn when they are not.

This is stuff from CRT scholars themselves given in interviews. Even if you want to make the argument that CRT is misapplied in the classroom (including, but not limited to, segregated parent-teacher interviews and the urging of students to form "racial affinity groups,"), these are some of the core pillars.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,060
3,043
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
I can see the mindset of "lets not persecuted people..." and very much believe in that ideal but also "The past is another country they do things differently there" very much applied in my view and the relevance of history should be in things still causing an impact in the present rather than feeling responsible for the issues. The responsibility is to be better not to feel some collective guilt.
What do you think something like the Auschwitz memorial museum is all about?
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,060
3,043
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Well, yeah, but the Bible does justify slavery, period. That people don't use the Bible to justify slavery now is a plus for society, not a plus for the text.
(Phew, I thought you were going to point out the time God ask the Israelities to commit genocide and destroyed the tribe that didnt comply.)

The type of slavery in the Bible isn't the same as US slavery. Eg. The Israelities didnt make up some nonsense about how black people were the descendants of Shem, Noah's 'lesser, criminal' son. Thus they HAD to be enslaved to civilise them.

But yes, you correct. It did. Totally giving the Bible way too much credit
 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
5,805
3,546
118
Country
United States of America
This is stuff from CRT scholars themselves given in interviews.
So it's exactly like I said. Or to put it another way, you think a particular half-time show is a 'pillar' of the sport.
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,176
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
(Phew, I thought you were going to point out the time God ask the Israelities to commit genocide and destroyed the tribe that didnt comply.)
I've seen some people try to justify that. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. :(

The type of slavery in the Bible isn't the same as US slavery. Eg. The Israelities didnt make up some nonsense about how black people were the descendants of Shem, Noah's 'lesser, criminal' son. Thus they HAD to be enslaved to civilise them.
Yes, I know that. In the Bible, terms like "white" and "black" weren't used. There certainly was racialization to an extent, including when it came to servitude, but not that type. I'm not disputing that. I'm also aware that the people who used the Bible to justify US slavery used terms like the "mark of Ham" or somesuch. But...

But yes, you correct. It did. Totally giving the Bible way too much credit
Yep.
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,228
970
118
Country
USA
Eg. The war of drugs has incarcerated a lot of African Americans. You could claim that the types of drugs leading to imprisonment were chosen to effect minorities more. Or you could claim it was unintentionally. Either way, CRT would just be pointing our that the law effected minorities more than whites.

People going further than that are now no longer using CRT but their using own biases.
I think all of what you say here is fine, but it misses where the issue with CRT is. Critical race theory reaches very reasonable conclusions when it comes to things like redlining or drug sentencing or other places where different races are treated differently by deliberately enacted policies (not even necessarily deliberately racist, just purposefully enacted). It makes sense that efforts to find faults in society causing racial disparities reach good conclusions when they find aspects of society that artificially create racial disparities. The problem is when CRT, looking to find faults in society, instead finds something innocuous like arithmetic, and suddenly you have actual people suggesting that 2+2 doesn't necessarily equal 4, and teaching it that way is some close-minded combination of internalized whiteness or heteronormativity (that is a controversy that actually happened on twitter). Quite famously, CRT scholars have repeatedly suggested that timeliness is a white value that society uses to disadvantage people of color. I understand policies like demanding straight hair in a dress code are racially disparate, but being on time is not an inherently white thing, and saying so is exactly the type of thing that gets people to say CRT teaches people to be racist.

I don't think anyone of any prominence opposes criticizing policies that treat racial characteristics differently or teaching about racially motivated acts in history, but CRT (or any part of critical theory) does not stop when it stops making sense. It doesn't care if the criticism is appropriate, suddenly the American Revolution was fought to keep slavery and excel spreadsheets are tools of white supremacy. And if you have a line of reasoning that does not always lead to correct conclusions, and you apply that line of reasoning without considering whether it's appropriate to do so, that is a fallacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dwarvenhobble

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,262
5,697
118
No they're not. It's being taught in law schools.



Its not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dwarvenhobble

Buyetyen

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,129
2,362
118
Country
USA



Its not?
It's not. They're lying to you. And you're falling for it like a chump. Seriously, you're citing rags like the Washington Examiner and the Daily Caller? Get your news from a credible source, for fuck's sake. You may as well have cited Newsmax or OAN for all the credibility it lent your argument.

Put this another way: Do you actually believe that The Daily Caller, run by Tucker Carlson, is a good example of journalistic integrity?
 
Last edited:

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 28, 2017
11,262
5,697
118
It's not. They're lying to you. And you're falling for it like a chump. Seriously, you're citing rags like the Washington Examiner and the Daily Caller? Get your news from a credible source, for fuck's sake. You may as well have cited Newsmax or OAN for all the credibility it lent your argument.
Oh jesus, does it ever matter what news source I find? Everytime i pull an article or source for you to wave it away like, "Oh that news doesn't count. it's a lie, fake news!"

Alright whatever you say. Let me only cite LBGT and liberal sources for you because those wont be bias at all.

download.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dwarvenhobble

Buyetyen

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,129
2,362
118
Country
USA
Oh jesus, does it ever matter what news source I find? Everytime i pull an article or source for you to wave it away like, "Oh that news doesn't count. it's a lie, fake news!"

Alright whatever you say. Let me only cite LBGT and liberal sources for you because those wont be bias at all.

View attachment 4062
Oh spare me the infantile whining. We wouldn't have to do this song and dance if you actually vetted your sources instead of looking for shit to confirm what you already wanted to believe.
 

Buyetyen

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,129
2,362
118
Country
USA
So the black father was lying in the video? The kid giving that speech was lying? I guess everybody is lying then. You folks wanna talk about lying, about believing what you want to believe, try the mirror.
They can believe they're right while still being wrong. You do it all the time.

You've state that CRT is about teaching that white people are inherently racist. You believe this because it's what you've been told. You didn't actually vet it. No one here has called you a racist. At most, I think you have some pretty bad blind spots, but I'm not gonna be the one to convince you to look at them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan