Texas v abortion

[Agema]

Actually this is also a big point in regards to the BC, but I dunno how relevant it is the abortion.

It's nothing but the standard conservative line that the people they deem to be lazy, unproductive bums should be left to rot rather than cost "honest, hard working" citizens in tax: the children they so urgently want to be brought into the world should have the sins of their parents inflicted on them to the maximum because once they're born, who gives a shit?

 

[CriticalGaming]

How does "screw poor people" even theoretically help this situation? What is the thought process here?

I didn't say it was an answer. I'm just brainstorming. I don't think the idea should be "how do we make abortions easy for everyone." As much as it should be, "How do we get people to never NEED/WANT abortions". Wouldn't that be the better answer?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

They can learn new things at the abortion clinic then. They have the obligation to if you ask me.

I'm 37 and I'm still learning new shit. Cocksure 20 year olds who's only exposure to sex ed being 3 sanitized medical pamphlets and pornography won't know jack or shit.

And we aren't the only ones in this situation, either. Some brilliant bastards are making educational manga for Japanese kids in the same boat

Sex Ed 120%, Vol. 1 | Manga | Yen Press

Naoko Tsuji, an unorthodox health teacher at an all-girls school, doubts whether the sex ed status quo truly teaches young people everything they need to know-

yenpress.com

It's a fun read, I'd recommend it. It has what I would consider to be basic education that's not covered in sex ed classes, so you can use that as a baseline for what kids probably don't know even in a highly non-Christian environment

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I didn't say it was an answer. I'm just brainstorming. I don't think the idea should be "how do we make abortions easy for everyone." As much as it should be, "How do we get people to never NEED/WANT abortions". Wouldn't that be the better answer?

"Want" is doing a lot of work if the first thing you brainstorm is "charge the shit out of them" instead of the statistically proven "free birth control" route

 

[Buyetyen]

People don't have to have sex to live, so it isn't technically a life requirement and therefore not worth insuring medically.

Which is a bit like saying athletes should have to pay out of pocket for any injuries they sustain because you don't need sports to live.

If a woman wants an IUD, why shouldn't that be covered?

 

[CriticalGaming]

"Want" is doing a lot of work if the first thing you brainstorm is "charge the shit out of them" instead of the statistically proven "free birth control" route

Where is BC free?

 

[McElroy]

I didn't say it was an answer. I'm just brainstorming. I don't think the idea should be "how do we make abortions easy for everyone." As much as it should be, "How do we get people to never NEED/WANT abortions". Wouldn't that be the better answer?

Impossible to do at the same time?
Anyway, all the insurance plan stuff in the US inflates the prices of some things by a lot. A contraceptive implant is under 160€ here while it's almost 1000$ over there, and it's the same capsule.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Which is a bit like saying athletes should have to pay out of pocket for any injuries they sustain because you don't need sports to live.

If a woman wants an IUD, why shouldn't that be covered?

It is required to live if it is their job. In which case their employer should have policies on that health care. And then porn exists...so maybe it should be covered there, but I don't think porn studios have that level of employment regulations. Could be wrong though.

Want versus what's necessary is a different story. She can want an IUD all she wants, but if the pill works just fine for her and she doesn't medically need an IUD then there is no reason for it to be covered.

And actually it turns out that IUD's and other birth controls have been covered by insurances since the Affordable Care Act in 2010. So 11 years ago BC became either super cheap or free. So now where do we go?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Impossible to do at the same time?
Anyway, all the insurance plan stuff in the US inflates the prices of some things by a lot. A contraceptive implant is under 160€ here while it's almost 1000$ over there, and it's the same capsule.

Yep I just looked it up and most health coverages in the US cover Birth Control in a wide variety of formats. So that need for universal free BC is basically already in place and has been there since 2010. So if universal BC wasn't the solution to the abortion issue, then what is the reasoning now?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Where is BC free?

*sigh*

A billionaire funded free IUDs for a few years and cut teen pregnancy and abortion rates by more then half

Colorado abortion rates keep declining. Free IUDs and easier access to the pill are the reason.

Abortion rates have dropped again in Colorado, and health authorities are crediting increased access to birth control statewide

coloradosun.com

Then the funds ran out and the program stopped. Despite the clear beneficial effects, because that's how conservatism rolls

Yep I just looked it up and most health coverages in the US cover Birth Control in a wide variety of formats. So that need for universal free BC is basically already in place and has been there since 2010. So if universal BC wasn't the solution to the abortion issue, then what is the reasoning now?

Say you don't know anything about how health insurance works without saying you don't know anything about how health insurance works

Contraception Is Free To Women, Except When It's Not

The Affordable Care Act requires most insurers to cover a comprehensive list of FDA-approved birth control methods at no cost. But insurers often make it hard for women to get the products they want.

www.npr.org

 

[bluegate]

How does "screw poor people" even theoretically help this situation? What is the thought process here?

It's not "screw poor people", it sounds a bit like "screw promiscuous women having sex with everyone but me".

 

[Agema]

A billionaire funded free IUDs for a few years and cut teen pregnancy and abortion rates by more then half
...
Then the funds ran out and the program stopped. Despite the clear beneficial effects, because that's how conservatism rolls

Sex education also works. In the UK, the government targetted teen pregnancy rates to be cut, and funnily enough, far fewer teenagers getting pregnant also led to far fewer teens having abortions.

Who'd have thought?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Say you don't know anything about how health insurance works without saying you don't know anything about how health insurance works

Contraception Is Free To Women, Except When It's Not

The Affordable Care Act requires most insurers to cover a comprehensive list of FDA-approved birth control methods at no cost. But insurers often make it hard for women to get the products they want.

www.npr.org

Funny how that exactly highlights my point that some people have different BC fits. And quite frankly the example in that article is an outlier of special case.

For the most part it seems that the common BC items are covered and if you need a special one, it is what it is. There isn't a universal way to cover everyone because there are drastically different costs when someone has a special need. I don't really know what you are arguing for.

If someone is good with the pill it is covered no problem. But if someone else needs a $5000 bi-yearly IUD swap, that person's thing should be covered as well?

How would you feel if I took you to lunch at Mcdonald's, then took your friend to lunch at an expensive steakhouse right afterwards. I bet you'd be pretty annoyed wouldn't you.

It so easy for people to just go, "Free shit for everyone." But nobody seems to consider where the fuck that money comes from. Where is the money supposed to come from to give everyone free shit? Who has to work to pay off someone else's expensive BC because they can't get their boyfriend to put a $2 condom on?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Sex education also works. In the UK, the government targetted teen pregnancy rates to be cut, and funnily enough, far fewer teenagers getting pregnant also led to far fewer teens having abortions.

Who'd have thought?

What about all the 20-40 year olds who make up the bulk of the abortion rates in the US?

The UK cut the rates in teens, and that's awesome. But what about the adults? 81% of abortions in the UK in 2018 where women over 21 years old. So the education did indeed work quite well for teenagers. But it did nothing for adults it would seem.


So we know education works, assuming you can force people into that education like you can with teens still in public school. How do we solve the same issue in adults when alcohol becomes more of a factor?

 

[Worgen]

It's not "screw poor people", it sounds a bit like "screw promiscuous women having sex with everyone but me".

Wealthy people can still go out of state. Depending on where you are in tx, getting out of state can take a long time. Plus the way the law is worded, its more like screw everyone who provided any kind of assistance to someone getting an abortion. The example a lot of sources give is an uber driver taking someone to a clinic could be liable.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Wealthy people can still go out of state. Depending on where you are in tx, getting out of state can take a long time. Plus the way the law is worded, its more like screw everyone who provided any kind of assistance to someone getting an abortion. The example a lot of sources give is an uber driver taking someone to a clinic could be liable.

I do want to say for the record, I am on board with you all about this law being pretty dumb.

 

[Agema]

The UK cut the rates in teens, and that's awesome. But what about the adults? 81% of abortions in the UK in 2018 where women over 21 years old. So the education did indeed work quite well for teenagers. But it did nothing for adults it would seem.

Depends. We might see in a decade or two - after all, those sex educated teens also need to get older before we can get stats on them in their late 20s and 30s.

 

[Worgen]

I do want to say for the record, I am on board with you all about this law being pretty dumb.

I think it goes a bit beyond just being dumb. I think this law is actively dangerous since it sets a precedent of being able to bypass law and possible even constitutionality by just making citizens the enforces for morality. If its allowed to stand then I see very similar things showing up in other states that go beyond the abortion thing since we will 100% get similar laws in other states to this one.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Depends. We might see in a decade or two - after all, those sex educated teens also need to get older before we can get stats on them in their late 20s and 30s.

That's true, just because they are being careful now (or at least not aborting babies now) doesn't mean that will remain consistent through the rest of their lives. Though typically if you are careful in youth you are usually more careful in adulthood. But shit can happen too.

I think it goes a bit beyond just being dumb. I think this law is actively dangerous since it sets a precedent of being able to bypass law and possible even constitutionality by just making citizens the enforces for morality. If its allowed to stand then I see very similar things showing up in other states that go beyond the abortion thing since we will 100% get similar laws in other states to this one.

I think the real danger is coming from the idea that people tangentially related to the abortion could get in trouble. From what i have been seeing it isn't so much the abortion part of the law that is freaking people out, it's the idea that people could have problems from just being involved tangentially. Which is certainly a problem, but in all likelihood would not hold up in a court. There are probably considerations that are factored into that, which people aren't really seeing right now. Like the Uber drive example doesn't have anything to fear from simply driving someone to the clinic.
Still a dumbass law though.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If someone is good with the pill it is covered no problem. But if someone else needs a $5000 bi-yearly IUD swap, that person's thing should be covered as well?
How would you feel if I took you to lunch at Mcdonald's, then took your friend to lunch at an expensive steakhouse right afterwards. I bet you'd be pretty annoyed wouldn't you.

No? Why would I?
If they need a different medication than they need a different medication. Why the fuck should I or anybody be annoyed that their medication would be more expensive than my medication? "Oh, I only needed a bandaid for a cut on my finger, but they need a $5000 surgical operation, how's that fair to me?"

It so easy for people to just go, "Free shit for everyone." But nobody seems to consider where the fuck that money comes from. Where is the money supposed to come from to give everyone free shit? Who has to work to pay off someone else's expensive BC because they can't get their boyfriend to put a $2 condom on?

Everybody, and at a cheaper rate than that person not getting that birth control, statistically.