Our Covid Response

[Dirty Hipsters]

Yes it is means I continue to keep my roof over my head and food on the table. People work in cool mines, risking black lung. People work on Oil Rigs which are one of the most dangerous places to work on the planet. People risk their lives everyday just to keep themselves employeed and "in the economy". So quite frankly, to quote something I've heard all too often, "Check your privilege". There are far more dangerous jobs and harder jobs out there then simply having to work with a mask and worrying about Covid (which you should be vaccinated and therefore protected against right?)

It is HIGHLY disingenuous to compare the risks of working on an oil rig the risk of working during a global pandemic.

The people working on the oil rig do so knowing the danger and getting compensated for that danger. They're easily pulling down close to six figures if not more, that's why they're there doing the work.

The retail and restaurant workers that you're trying to force back into their places of business for the sake of the economy aren't being compensated for the potential danger, they're still expected to work minimum wage. The risk to reward ratio is completely different and it's perfectly justified that someone doesn't want to potentially ruin their lungs or die in order to make $7 an hour bagging your groceries.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I love how you continue to conflate my words

I said don't disrespect entry level positions, I never said they would provide financial security. I said you should use those jobs to get work experience, job experience, and yes....skills if the job offers such a thing. Otherwise use your time to learn a s are kill outside of the job to get better and better jobs as you progress. Like Leveling up in an RPG.

But nobody should linger in entry level positions, and if you have been working for years and are still in an entry level position....then maybe it's because your attitude sucks and you treat your job like shit because you feel like you are too good for the position. If you are genuinely being denied promotions and raises, use your work experience to get higher paying jobs somewhere else.

"I don't disrespect entry level positions, but if you don't promote out of them it's your own fault because everybody can be a manager"

Health care reform, rent regulations, these other things I can get behind with you on absolutely. Not this though.

Why not? What's the functional difference between literally anything that lowers costs and higher wages? Why central planning style controls?

What's the actual difference between lowering costs so somebody can live on a (so-called) low skill job and raising wages so somebody can live on a (so-called) low skill job?

And would you lower costs enough so that somebody could live of a job like that? You seem very anti-"live of jobs like that"

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It is HIGHLY disingenuous to compare the risks of working on an oil rig the risk of working during a global pandemic.

The people working on the oil rig do so knowing the danger and getting compensated for that danger. They're easily pulling down close to six figures if not more, that's why they're there doing the work.

The retail and restaurant workers that you're trying to force back into their places of business for the sake of the economy aren't being compensated for the potential danger, they're still expected to work minimum wage. The risk to reward ratio is completely different and it's perfectly justified that someone doesn't want to potentially ruin their lungs or die in order to make $7 an hour bagging your groceries.

Pay me oil rig money and I'll happily staff a fast food joint during the peak of covid, just saying. Hell, pay me cop wages and I'll staff a fast food joint. That's $24/hr where I'm living.

People got shown who's jobs are actually essential. That genies's not going back into the bottle, "low-skilled" or not.
Enjoy the fast food joints actually being staffed by school kids.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The idea that the most entry-level jobs need to pay a livable salary is crazy.

Why? Why is it "crazy" to think that someone working full time should be able to make enough money TO BE ALIVE? A liveable wage means making enough money to be able to have basic necessities like food an shelter. There is no where in the US where a minimum wage worker can afford to live by themselves, that's what's crazy. 70 years ago an "unskilled" entry level factory job was enough for someone to afford buying a house.

Especially with a labor shortage right now, people are paying more than ever before just to get workers.

Why do you think that labor shortage exists?! Companies are paying more for workers because workers are refusing to work for less than a fair wage. If everyone suddenly flooded the job market again then wages would go down again.

 

[Avnger]

"I don't disrespect entry level positions, but if you don't promote out of them it's your own fault because everybody can be a manager"

Shit like this is how you can easily tell apart the people that have never actually worked a job for a single day in their life.

 

[Buyetyen]

I don't think you understand the difference between skilled and unskilled labor.

You can pluck someone off the street into a fast food job and they could get by. You can't pluck someone off the street to perform open heart surgery on you.

These are things the unsuccessful say about the successful. It's a fantasy world. Why work hard when you just can blame your lack of success on other people hoarding their success from you.

Also this facilitates the dream that you can't be happy or well off unless you are uber rich. It's an all or nothing mentality that does nobody any good.

If you're not going to engage with the substance of what anyone here is saying, then just shut up.

Because if you pay employees more then everything around that increases.

Fractionally. It's not a 1:1 ratio, my dude.

I said don't disrespect entry level positions, I never said they would provide financial security.

Why shouldn't they?

I said you should use those jobs to get work experience, job experience, and yes....skills if the job offers such a thing. Otherwise use your time to learn a s are kill outside of the job to get better and better jobs as you progress. Like Leveling up in an RPG.

This is among one of the more naive things you've ever said. What do you do for a living, if anything?

But nobody should linger in entry level positions,

Why?

Especially with a labor shortage right now, people are paying more than ever before just to get workers.

Because nobody wants to go back to working for $7/hour serving burgers to ingrates who are just going to abuse them.

Health care reform, rent regulations, these other things I can get behind with you on absolutely. Not this though.

Then I'm about to scare the shit out of you: I'm pro-UBI.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Why do you think that labor shortage exists?! Companies are paying more for workers because workers are refusing to work for less than a fair wage. If everyone suddenly flooded the job market again then wages would go down again.

It is because the government unemployment is paying people just as much to not go to work. Why work if you make the same money (for a while) for doing nothing.

 

[CriticalGaming]

This is among one of the more naive things you've ever said. What do you do for a living, if anything

I sell things. Making commissions on what i sell. Using skills i learned while waiting tables and working fast food.

Now i manage sales and sale things myself for a company that sends me all over the country.

Ive literally worked as a minimum wage worker for years and worked my into bigger and better jobs as my experience grew.

Literally practiced what i preach.

But people just want more money without any extra work. Entitled to earn whatever the fuck they feel is "right" but not what theyve earned.

But okay rely on the government to decide how much you can make, rely on them to provide and decide everything in your life so you dont actually have to do anything yourself or actually prove yourself in any regard.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

It is because the government unemployment is paying people just as much to not go to work. Why work if you make the same money (for a while) for doing nothing.

So according to you people should kill themselves and ruin their bodies for minimum wage instead, and then go die because it's not actually enough money to live on.

Which one of us is the crazy one again?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I sell things. Making commissions on what i sell. Using skills i learned while waiting tables and working fast food.

Now i manage sales and sale things myself for a company that sends me all over the country.

Ive literally worked as a minimum wage worker for years and worked my into bigger and better jobs as my experience grew.

Literally practiced what i preach.

But people just want more money without any extra work. Entitled to earn whatever the fuck they feel is "right" but not what theyve earned.

But okay rely on the government to decide how much you can make, rely on them to provide and decide everything in your life so you dont actually have to do anything yourself or actually prove yourself in any regard.

You sell cheap plastic bobbles to tourists. Lets not get on your high horse about how you're too good for minimum wage.

 

[AnxietyProne]

If covid is still a hospital clogging problem, and public officials are still letting that happen. We are doomed.

Unless you're where I live and don't believe it's a problem at all. Which we don't.

So according to you people should kill themselves and ruin their bodies for minimum wage instead, and then go die because it's not actually enough money to live on.

That's capitalism for you. If you're not rich, you're straight up scum.

Also this facilitates the dream that you can't be happy or well off unless you are uber rich. It's an all or nothing mentality that does nobody any good.

You can't. That's also capitalism.

But hey, if you think you can be happy living on the street eating out of garbage cans, you do you!

 

[Buyetyen]

But people just want more money without any extra work. Entitled to earn whatever the fuck they feel is "right" but not what theyve earned.

But okay rely on the government to decide how much you can make, rely on them to provide and decide everything in your life so you dont actually have to do anything yourself or actually prove yourself in any regard.

In other words, you don't respect entry-level workers. You don't believe people have an intrinsic value just by being human. No, success is measured in who you can step on and sneer at from a high horse. You're every asshole who never tipped while saying "Get a real job," back in my busking days.

Anyway, since we're sharing, I'm a professional tour guide. I work 3 days a week and make about $150-$200 a day. I'm in better financial shape than I've ever been in my life. I spent my first decade out of college bouncing from one shitty minimum wage job to the next, busking in between jobs to make ends meet. My post-college plans effectively shot, I had to do some serious soul-searching and for a while I hit rock bottom emotionally. I got help, got out of it, and got a job that let me use my skills and save up enough that I'm going to Europe later this year. And I still think the guy serving me a chicken sandwich at Wendy's deserves at least $15/hour. I still think the gal bagging my groceries should have a living wage. Because it's not about me. I'm one of the lucky ones who found a job with a living wage. But people who aren't so lucky? The ones who are going through in their 50's what I had to slog through in my 20's? They're starting to stand up for themselves. And they could always use more friends.

 

[Silvanus]

Because the other places that did super well like Greenland, and New Zealand, basically locked out all travel and paid people to stay the fuck home.

Nobody knew how to react, and it's clear that the only strategy that was viable was go all-in on protection, or to leave shit alone and let the virus play out. It's harsh to imply the free reign of something like this, but the issue is that you can't lockdown some people, but let other people go about their day in the next town over and expect compliance.

No, you can't. But you can just lock down and apply the same regulations across the board. And that was the only viable strategy; modelling shows that "leaving shit alone and letting the virus play out" would have led to a monumentally higher death toll.

Nobody knew for certain how to react straight away. But we were given a fully sequenced genome many months before any lockdowns were implemented. It was blindingly obvious what should be done quite a long time before it was.

Don't let them off the hook for their political decision to prioritise money over safety and postpone necessary restrictions.

 

[Baffle]

Ive literally worked as a minimum wage worker for years and worked my into bigger and better jobs as my experience grew.

"I've had it shit so everyone should have it shit" is an ethos pushed by people who will never have it shit because other people having it shit keeps them rich. Don't fall for it.

 

[tstorm823]

You don't believe people have an intrinsic value just by being human.

You don't get paid for you intrinsic value as a human. Not everything of value means money is involved.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I sell things. Making commissions on what i sell. Using skills i learned while waiting tables and working fast food.

Being paid more now doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something more valuable. It is quite conceivable that waiting tables and working fast food was more valuable work.

 

[Dalisclock]

Being paid more now doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something more valuable. It is quite conceivable that waiting tables and working fast food was more valuable work.

Well, a lot of people don't see that as valuable work, until they have to wait an hour to get their food at a restaurant because "Nobody wants to work anymore". Yes, people would rather work anything but Service/Retail jobs because they're lazy and not because said jobs are underpaid and subject to customer abuse from entitled dickshits who feel their convenience overrides everything else.

Kinda reminds me of reading a REASON(Libertarian periodical) bitching that people can't get passports at a decent pace because the people at the state department aren't working hard/fast enough. Except you know, Libertarians gleefully lobby for Government Agencies like State to get funding cuts whenever possible. And also, Uh....Covid is slowing everything down.

So the "This job isn't important" view runs smack into "Why can't I get what I want from these people NOW?" view and it never ceases to amaze people can't connect the dots.

I swear, the sheer amount of misery humans heap upon each other because they just have to have someone to look down on is astonishing and depressing. If it's not "menial" jobs, it's whoever is outside my tribe(Race/Religion/Ethnic group/family/favorite sports team/etc). And it becomes hard not to think of humans as bald monkeys who just happened to figure out pants but still defer to the monkey brain like 90% of the time.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Well, a lot of people don't see that as valuable work, until they have to wait an hour to get their food at a restaurant because "Nobody wants to work anymore". Yes, people would rather work anything but Service/Retail jobs because they're lazy and not because said jobs are underpaid and subject to customer abuse from entitled dickshits who feel their convenience overrides everything else.

Kinda reminds me of reading a REASON(Libertarian periodical) bitching that people can't get passports at a decent pace because the people at the state department aren't working hard/fast enough. Except you know, Libertarians gleefully lobby for Government Agencies like State to get funding cuts whenever possible. And also, Uh....Covid is slowing everything down.

So the "This job isn't important" view runs smack into "Why can't I get what I want from these people NOW?" view and it never ceases to amaze people can't connect the dots.

Yeah, and you also have to consider for whom the value is produced. What matters for capitalist employment is the value produced for the employer. So for any kind of retail sales, we should expect an inverse relationship between value produced for the consumer and compensation for the employee. Because what makes a highly compensated salesperson valuable to an employer is that they can get people to buy things they might not necessarily have wanted, whereas cashiering fast food (or a grocery store checkout) and facilitating a transaction for literal sustenance requires little salesmanship because you're selling people what they already know they want. And for the consumer, the latter is absolutely more valuable than someone hustling them into a more expensive car than they planned on getting or whatever.

 

[CriticalGaming]

No, you can't. But you can just lock down and apply the same regulations across the board. And that was the only viable strategy; modelling shows that "leaving shit alone and letting the virus play out" would have led to a monumentally higher death toll.

Nobody knew for certain how to react straight away. But we were given a fully sequenced genome many months before any lockdowns were implemented. It was blindingly obvious what should be done quite a long time before it was.

Don't let them off the hook for their political decision to prioritise money over safety and postpone necessary restrictions.

What's crazy is even now the rules are all over the fucking place.

The Metz gala, none of the "important" people wore masks, but all the servants did. During a presidential speech, the camera's went live too early and you could see almost nobody wore masks until the event started, which was supposed to be a speech about the importance of masks.

It's just crazy town. And with all these shitty dealings, you can't wonder why people are distrusting on all of it.

Being paid more now doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something more valuable.

Yes it does. You get paid based on the value you make for whomever you are working for. That's how pay works. Pay rates are valued by the value the person's job will provide the company.

And the thing about minimum wage jobs is that a lot of them can be done by robots. Have you noticed that Walmart now has 50 self-checkout lines and only four or five real people doing cashier stuff? Fast Food places are also starting to do this, there are several McDonald's in my area in which you order on a touch screen kiosk and you pick up your order from a kitchen window and you never interact with an actual person.

Pushing for high minimum wages will just make companies automate more and more and just cut out the unskilled labor work as much as they can because there wont be any reason for it. And then people will be forced to learn a skill, plumbing, constructing, electrical work, refridgeration, whatever it might be. Simply because companies will trim the labor force and instead pay fewer specialized people more money to make for not paying a lot of people more money.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Yes it does. You get paid based on the value you make for whomever you are working for. That's how pay works.

No it's not at all. This is basic economics.

The value to the employer is the ceiling on any employee's wage. Employee compensation can be anywhere below that ceiling. And technically it can go above it, although it leads to bankruptcy if it remains there for long on average over the whole company.