Texas v abortion

Agema

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Currently. Every few decades Montana forgets that things go to shit when they put the GOP in charge.

Then they elect a lot more Dems to fix the problems. Had to put in term limits so that dem governors would eventually have to leave office. Already been through one cycle of that, not looking forward to the current one
It's the way of the world. Determinedly vote in a party to cut taxes, eventually realise a load of infrastructure dependent on taxes has fallen to shit and its causing a ton of problems, then vote in the other party to fix it, and then promptly object to getting to taxed to repair infrastructure and put the tax-cutters back in.
 

Seanchaidh

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It's the way of the world. Determinedly vote in a party to cut taxes, eventually realise a load of infrastructure dependent on taxes has fallen to shit and its causing a ton of problems, then vote in the other party to fix it, and then promptly object to getting to taxed to repair infrastructure and put the tax-cutters back in.
The bad party and the worse party.
 

tstorm823

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Let's combine analogies. You're at a restaurant. The restaurant cooks the food poorly leaving some raw. You're saying that you, eating the raw meat unintentionally, should be the only one suffering the consequences?

(The restaurant being the substitute for the company making contraceptives.)
A) "Should" is a dangerous concept. Thinking in terms of what you think should happen often leads to impossible solutions.
B) You eat the raw meat, you suffer the consequence. You might complain to or sue the restaurant and make them try and compensate you for the trouble, but they can't magic away food poisoning.
C) Another party having consequences does not change your own. Suggesting the contraceptive company has blame and should somehow pay for the outcome doesn't change the pregnancy any more than the restaurant giving you free dinner fixes your stomach problems.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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B) You eat the raw meat, you suffer the consequence. You might complain to or sue the restaurant and make them try and compensate you for the trouble, but they can't magic away food poisoning.
Sure we can. It's just that doing so is generally more painful and riskier that just suffering through it.

Same can't be said for pregnancy.
 

Trunkage

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A) "Should" is a dangerous concept. Thinking in terms of what you think should happen often leads to impossible solutions.
B) You eat the raw meat, you suffer the consequence. You might complain to or sue the restaurant and make them try and compensate you for the trouble, but they can't magic away food poisoning.
C) Another party having consequences does not change your own. Suggesting the contraceptive company has blame and should somehow pay for the outcome doesn't change the pregnancy any more than the restaurant giving you free dinner fixes your stomach problems.
So, if a car company makes a bunch of crappy brakes or air bags (and it not being known by the public) ... it's the drivers fault for using the car and they suffer the consequences
 

tstorm823

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So, if a car company makes a bunch of crappy brakes or air bags (and it not being known by the public) ... it's the drivers fault for using the car and they suffer the consequences
Again, if you get injured by faulty car features, it doesn't matter if you're at fault, the car company cannot magic away your injuries. The idea that if you're not to blame for something it means you're entitled to a magical undo button of the effects is completely fiction. It's not a matter of should or should not. Should or should not are things that exist primarily in our fantasies. I'm reminded of an ad for cancer awareness where the people insisted that breast cancer is unacceptable, as though you can defeat cancer by insisting you don't accept it.

I could dwell on the point that if your faulty safety features hurt you, you likely also made a mistake that required them to work, but it's a moot point anyway. Fault doesn't really matter.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Again, if you get injured by faulty car features, it doesn't matter if you're at fault, the car company cannot magic away your injuries. The idea that if you're not to blame for something it means you're entitled to a magical undo button of the effects is completely fiction. It's not a matter of should or should not. Should or should not are things that exist primarily in our fantasies. I'm reminded of an ad for cancer awareness where the people insisted that breast cancer is unacceptable, as though you can defeat cancer by insisting you don't accept it.

I could dwell on the point that if your faulty safety features hurt you, you likely also made a mistake that required them to work, but it's a moot point anyway. Fault doesn't really matter.
Correct.

Regardless of fault, the government cannot compel an automobile designer to give blood or donate tissue to keep an accident victim alive
 

Kwak

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It's the way of the world. Determinedly vote in a party to cut taxes, eventually realise a load of infrastructure dependent on taxes has fallen to shit and its causing a ton of problems, then vote in the other party to fix it, and then promptly object to getting to taxed to repair infrastructure and put the tax-cutters back in.
Ancient truths.
 

Trunkage

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Again, if you get injured by faulty car features, it doesn't matter if you're at fault, the car company cannot magic away your injuries. The idea that if you're not to blame for something it means you're entitled to a magical undo button of the effects is completely fiction. It's not a matter of should or should not. Should or should not are things that exist primarily in our fantasies. I'm reminded of an ad for cancer awareness where the people insisted that breast cancer is unacceptable, as though you can defeat cancer by insisting you don't accept it.

I could dwell on the point that if your faulty safety features hurt you, you likely also made a mistake that required them to work, but it's a moot point anyway. Fault doesn't really matter.
So, to be clear, actions and consequences are not related

Well, that explains a lot
 

tstorm823

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So, to be clear, actions and consequences are not related

Well, that explains a lot
Is that controversial? The people who take actions are not always the people who suffer the consequences of those actions. I'm not sure what that's explaining to you.
 

Trunkage

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Is that controversial? The people who take actions are not always the people who suffer the consequences of those actions. I'm not sure what that's explaining to you.
Well, I cant think of any better reason to be pro-abortion.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Because you want the unborn to carry the consequences and pretend you solved all the problems?
How come massive corporations are off the hook for fucking up people's lives in the pursuit of a dollar, but individual poor people have to live with the consequences?

Because, dude? Abortion solves the problem. No pretending involved
 

tstorm823

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How come massive corporations are off the hook for fucking up people's lives in the pursuit of a dollar, but individual poor people have to live with the consequences?

Because, dude? Abortion solves the problem. No pretending involved
You're really conflicting with yourself in a single post. You think unplanned pregnancies are the fault of big contraceptive companies, you're accusing me of defending them, but then also advocating for the slaughter of human beings as a genuine solution to the problem. Are you proud to defend massive corporations with human sacrifice?
 

Kwak

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You're really conflicting with yourself in a single post. You think unplanned pregnancies are the fault of big contraceptive companies, you're accusing me of defending them, but then also advocating for the slaughter of human beings as a genuine solution to the problem. Are you proud to defend massive corporations with human sacrifice?
You think terminating a foetus is literal human sacrifice? That is deranged.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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You're really conflicting with yourself in a single post. You think unplanned pregnancies are the fault of big contraceptive companies, you're accusing me of defending them, but then also advocating for the slaughter of human beings as a genuine solution to the problem. Are you proud to defend massive corporations with human sacrifice?
Corporations in general, really. They'll fight for years and spend millions of dollars for the right to dump toxins into groundwater and zero bad things happen to them.

But a gal gets pregnant unexpectedly and regardless of circumstances you want to strap them to a gurney and force them to endure things we find inhumane for our worst criminals
 
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tstorm823

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You think terminating a foetus is literal human sacrifice? That is deranged.
It's literally killing a human. Beyond that, "human sacrifice" is a matter of intent. I don't think most or possibly any people get abortions with the intent of human sacrifice, but if someone is going to characterize it as a measure of justice to take away the burdens of corporate malfeasance, that's getting pretty darn close.
But a gal gets pregnant unexpectedly and regardless of circumstances you want to strap them to a gurney and force them to endure things we find inhumane for our worst criminals
You're blaming me for the realities of human reproduction. To save a would-be mother from pain, you are killing another person. Not I, nor anyone else, made it so that the person exists inside the womb and birthing them is painful. You wish for a way to sidestep that reality, but you're living in fantasy.