Philadelphia Train Sexual Assault (Content Warning I guess, because this one is BAD)

[Dwarvenhobble]

So we should stop reporting things that happened? Good logic.


That cop straight up murdered a person and the guy who called the cops feels culpable for her death. That's literally reporting a thing that happened and a person involved's reaction... Should we just not report on when cops murder people?


An organisation highlighting that there are better organisations out there for dealing with certain situations than armed police. For instance, mental health crises or suicide risks. Situations where a person needs a compassionate voice to talk then down rather than an angry guy with a gun escalating things.

an article about that previous organisation.


An article about people afraid to call the cops because of violence carried out by the cops... So like seems like the cops are to blame for that one. Like the Irish police kill less than 1 person a year... American police kill too much.

again, just an article about maybe not needing armed police for literally everything, such as traffic violations.


Police are more likely to shoot a black child with a gun than a white active shooter. Nothing controversial there.

Like nothing you have shared there encourages not calling police in case of serious violent crime, most are arguing that that is actually the right time to call the police.


Like seriously? You're actually going to use this as a way to go after anti-racism campaigning? You're sick.

As a reminder people on the train didn't call the police.
It encourages not calling the cops if there is any doubt.
I asked if people maybe thought it could be a factor.

 

[Trunkage]

As a reminder people on the train didn't call the police.
It encourages not calling the cops if there is any doubt.
I asked if people maybe thought it could be a factor.

That it's a black person? No
That I'm calling US cops? Probably want to vacate the train before they arrive

 

[tstorm823]

I mean, if I were a thorough person, I might have the audacity to figure out how many people in this thread complaining that they didn't call the cops have actively advocated for the abolition of police in the past. I know that's just a "you protest society, and yet you participate in it" type criticism, that isn't entirely fair, but I'm very glad you're all for calling the police on an obvious violent crime, even those of you who feel the police shouldn't exist to call in the first place.

 

[Cheetodust]

I mean, if I were a thorough person, I might have the audacity to figure out how many people in this thread complaining that they didn't call the cops have actively advocated for the abolition of police in the past. I know that's just a "you protest society, and yet you participate in it" type criticism, that isn't entirely fair, but I'm very glad you're all for calling the police on an obvious violent crime, even those of you who feel the police shouldn't exist to call in the first place.

They're also the only viable option for violent crime right now. I mean preferable to a rapist isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. I also don't believe in government but I still vote in elections to try and at least get the least harmful group in charge because, like it or not, that's the system I live in.

Most people who support defunding the police aren't even as far left as I am. They simply mean that the police should get less funding and more should be put into social work. And then most who say get rid of police mean in their current form rather than no law enforcement whatsoever. As an anarchist I assure you, there's very few of us.

 

[Trunkage]

They're also the only viable option for violent crime right now. I mean preferable to a rapist isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. I also don't believe in government but I still vote in elections to try and at least get the least harmful group in charge because, like it or not, that's the system I live in.

Most people who support defunding the police aren't even as far left as I am. They simply mean that the police should get less funding and more should be put into social work. And then most who say get rid of police mean in their current form rather than no law enforcement whatsoever. As an anarchist I assure you, there's very few of us.

IMO, it's trying to give the police their original mandate, not ones that have been bolted on later to cut costs

 

[ObsidianJones]

I've put myself into harm too many times to count. I'm intelligent academically, but my street-wise ways go out the window when I think I can at least lessen the issue if I just intervened. Here as I type this, I know it's dumb. It's a miracle I never got hurt, sliced, or on someone's literally hitlist because I decided I was going to be Captain America.

I got told to mind my own business by the person I thought I was trying to help too many times to count. I remember being in Jersey with a friend one night (God knows why anyone is in New Jersey at night), seeing this guy chase this woman on a bridge and seeing a cop ahead of me. I pulled up, literally said a prayer, and walked to the cop's view before I even got near the car, explained the situation, and while I was doing it, the guy and woman appeared on the horizon.

I remember returning to my car and visibly shaking. It was the best I could do not to break down and cry in front of my friend. Luckily, she was black as well and knew why I was afraid. She said it was a brave thing I did. And we just left.

This is all to say... I can't say anything at all. I'm somewhat taller than average (6'2). I've worked out most of my life (martial arts, weight lifting, being a personal trainer, calisthenics, etc.) so my body reflects that I might cause problems. I have a natural resting bastard face. People are normally somewhat unnerved by me at the jump unless I take pains to look approachable. Not to mention that I carry personal defense with me wherever I go. Never a gun, but thinks that can be used with my martial art backgrounds, as long as it's legal where I can do so. I exploit that when things like this come up.

I'm not a 62 year old man with brittle bones.

I'm not a 18 year old girl who might have been smaller than the victim.

I'm not a sibling with younger siblings that I'm just trying to get home.

Be aware with the real fact that most people would understand when being presented with that situation: One would instantly realize 'If this person is doing this in broad daylight, they must not be in the real frame of mind. What would HE do to ME if I intervened?!'

As much as it feels easy to judge, I realize that because of how I was built, it's easy for me to be gung-ho. Every inch of me says "I would have done something!!", and I might have. But I am Me. I have something over most people when it comes to intimidation or fighting.

Please understand I get the frustration. Something egregious happened. And our sense of mortality wants someone to pay. But we're not judging a train car full of off duty police officers, people who have training and superior weaponry to handle situations like this. We're judging regular people who were afraid. Or callous. Or whatever.

I don't know. My rage is all over the place with this. I think my sense of fairness is ramping up to overcome it. These people didn't sign up to have someone else's life in their hands. I want to be fair to that, but... there was a woman who was surrounded by people and no one helped her. I can't imagine allowing that to happen.

This post has been a waste of time.

 

[BrawlMan]

This post has been a waste of time.

No it has not.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

I've put myself into harm too many times to count. I'm intelligent academically, but my street-wise ways go out the window when I think I can at least lessen the issue if I just intervened. Here as I type this, I know it's dumb. It's a miracle I never got hurt, sliced, or on someone's literally hitlist because I decided I was going to be Captain America.

I got told to mind my own business by the person I thought I was trying to help too many times to count. I remember being in Jersey with a friend one night (God knows why anyone is in New Jersey at night), seeing this guy chase this woman on a bridge and seeing a cop ahead of me. I pulled up, literally said a prayer, and walked to the cop's view before I even got near the car, explained the situation, and while I was doing it, the guy and woman appeared on the horizon.

I remember returning to my car and visibly shaking. It was the best I could do not to break down and cry in front of my friend. Luckily, she was black as well and knew why I was afraid. She said it was a brave thing I did. And we just left.

This is all to say... I can't say anything at all. I'm somewhat taller than average (6'2). I've worked out most of my life (martial arts, weight lifting, being a personal trainer, calisthenics, etc.) so my body reflects that I might cause problems. I have a natural resting bastard face. People are normally somewhat unnerved by me at the jump unless I take pains to look approachable. Not to mention that I carry personal defense with me wherever I go. Never a gun, but thinks that can be used with my martial art backgrounds, as long as it's legal where I can do so. I exploit that when things like this come up.

I'm not a 62 year old man with brittle bones.

I'm not a 18 year old girl who might have been smaller than the victim.

I'm not a sibling with younger siblings that I'm just trying to get home.

Be aware with the real fact that most people would understand when being presented with that situation: One would instantly realize 'If this person is doing this in broad daylight, they must not be in the real frame of mind. What would HE do to ME if I intervened?!'

As much as it feels easy to judge, I realize that because of how I was built, it's easy for me to be gung-ho. Every inch of me says "I would have done something!!", and I might have. But I am Me. I have something over most people when it comes to intimidation or fighting.

Please understand I get the frustration. Something egregious happened. And our sense of mortality wants someone to pay. But we're not judging a train car full of off duty police officers, people who have training and superior weaponry to handle situations like this. We're judging regular people who were afraid. Or callous. Or whatever.

I don't know. My rage is all over the place with this. I think my sense of fairness is ramping up to overcome it. These people didn't sign up to have someone else's life in their hands. I want to be fair to that, but... there was a woman who was surrounded by people and no one helped her. I can't imagine allowing that to happen.

This post has been a waste of time.

If your post is a waste of time, then so is everyone else's. They're always pleasant to read, insightful and fair even when perhaps occasions don't lend themselves to fairness. (You can swear though if you want, I won't tell anyone! )

 

[Ender910]

I could certainly understand the shock driving causing observers into a frozen state for a fair bit of time, but for 40 minutes I would think someone would've shaken themselves loose to do something of some sort. Though that may depend on the finer details throughout the whole ordeal (not that I'm terribly interested in hearing said details, but I recognize how peoples' behavior might hinge on such details).

The (barely) closest experience to this that I can think of is waking up to the bizarre sounds of my own cat brawling and making unearthly hissing sounds with a stray cat, outside my window, in the middle of the night. Took me a few minutes to actually drive myself to action because it threw me off so hard. After I finally shook it off I went out the door, somehow got a hold of my cat, yelled at the other and carried him off and locked him inside the garage. (One of the only times I think my cat ever hissed at me, he was super on edge, which was pretty rare for one as mellow as him)

Not super comparable, but that bizarre sense of shock is at least something that I've felt and can understand. And in my case, I actually knew one of the participants and actually had a personal stake in intervening.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I've put myself into harm too many times to count. I'm intelligent academically, but my street-wise ways go out the window when I think I can at least lessen the issue if I just intervened. Here as I type this, I know it's dumb. It's a miracle I never got hurt, sliced, or on someone's literally hitlist because I decided I was going to be Captain America.

I got told to mind my own business by the person I thought I was trying to help too many times to count. I remember being in Jersey with a friend one night (God knows why anyone is in New Jersey at night), seeing this guy chase this woman on a bridge and seeing a cop ahead of me. I pulled up, literally said a prayer, and walked to the cop's view before I even got near the car, explained the situation, and while I was doing it, the guy and woman appeared on the horizon.

I remember returning to my car and visibly shaking. It was the best I could do not to break down and cry in front of my friend. Luckily, she was black as well and knew why I was afraid. She said it was a brave thing I did. And we just left.

This is all to say... I can't say anything at all. I'm somewhat taller than average (6'2). I've worked out most of my life (martial arts, weight lifting, being a personal trainer, calisthenics, etc.) so my body reflects that I might cause problems. I have a natural resting bastard face. People are normally somewhat unnerved by me at the jump unless I take pains to look approachable. Not to mention that I carry personal defense with me wherever I go. Never a gun, but thinks that can be used with my martial art backgrounds, as long as it's legal where I can do so. I exploit that when things like this come up.

I'm not a 62 year old man with brittle bones.

I'm not a 18 year old girl who might have been smaller than the victim.

I'm not a sibling with younger siblings that I'm just trying to get home.

Be aware with the real fact that most people would understand when being presented with that situation: One would instantly realize 'If this person is doing this in broad daylight, they must not be in the real frame of mind. What would HE do to ME if I intervened?!'

As much as it feels easy to judge, I realize that because of how I was built, it's easy for me to be gung-ho. Every inch of me says "I would have done something!!", and I might have. But I am Me. I have something over most people when it comes to intimidation or fighting.

Please understand I get the frustration. Something egregious happened. And our sense of mortality wants someone to pay. But we're not judging a train car full of off duty police officers, people who have training and superior weaponry to handle situations like this. We're judging regular people who were afraid. Or callous. Or whatever.

I don't know. My rage is all over the place with this. I think my sense of fairness is ramping up to overcome it. These people didn't sign up to have someone else's life in their hands. I want to be fair to that, but... there was a woman who was surrounded by people and no one helped her. I can't imagine allowing that to happen.

This post has been a waste of time.

I don't think it is. I think these kind of heartfelt posts are far from being a waste when so much discussion is people talking past each other. At the least I think it helps get you out of the loop of your internal thoughts, and I think plenty of the other forum users feel this post, and your posts in general, are worth reading.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Thanks for everyone who reached out to quiet my crazy. I just felt like I was all over the place.

Here's one of the reasons I felt that way. I left something completely important out.

As of the news we have now, I want to commend the cops. Of late, we've had a lot of bad dealings with the officers. This man was clearly violent, and the public would have been very ok with extreme violence when dealing with a rapist.

But.

He is in custody, seemingly unharmed. And I don't know what actually happened when they arrested him. But again, there doesn't seem to have been an altercation. The cops came, did their jobs, and that's all I ever wanted from them. So as of now, and hopefully forever... kudos.

 

[Trunkage]

Tucker went on a rant that seemed to say homeless people stop the bystanders from acting

 

[Mister Mumbler]

I've put myself into harm too many times to count. I'm intelligent academically, but my street-wise ways go out the window when I think I can at least lessen the issue if I just intervened. Here as I type this, I know it's dumb. It's a miracle I never got hurt, sliced, or on someone's literally hitlist because I decided I was going to be Captain America.

I got told to mind my own business by the person I thought I was trying to help too many times to count. I remember being in Jersey with a friend one night (God knows why anyone is in New Jersey at night), seeing this guy chase this woman on a bridge and seeing a cop ahead of me. I pulled up, literally said a prayer, and walked to the cop's view before I even got near the car, explained the situation, and while I was doing it, the guy and woman appeared on the horizon.

I remember returning to my car and visibly shaking. It was the best I could do not to break down and cry in front of my friend. Luckily, she was black as well and knew why I was afraid. She said it was a brave thing I did. And we just left.

This is all to say... I can't say anything at all. I'm somewhat taller than average (6'2). I've worked out most of my life (martial arts, weight lifting, being a personal trainer, calisthenics, etc.) so my body reflects that I might cause problems. I have a natural resting bastard face. People are normally somewhat unnerved by me at the jump unless I take pains to look approachable. Not to mention that I carry personal defense with me wherever I go. Never a gun, but thinks that can be used with my martial art backgrounds, as long as it's legal where I can do so. I exploit that when things like this come up.

I'm not a 62 year old man with brittle bones.

I'm not a 18 year old girl who might have been smaller than the victim.

I'm not a sibling with younger siblings that I'm just trying to get home.

Be aware with the real fact that most people would understand when being presented with that situation: One would instantly realize 'If this person is doing this in broad daylight, they must not be in the real frame of mind. What would HE do to ME if I intervened?!'

As much as it feels easy to judge, I realize that because of how I was built, it's easy for me to be gung-ho. Every inch of me says "I would have done something!!", and I might have. But I am Me. I have something over most people when it comes to intimidation or fighting.

Please understand I get the frustration. Something egregious happened. And our sense of mortality wants someone to pay. But we're not judging a train car full of off duty police officers, people who have training and superior weaponry to handle situations like this. We're judging regular people who were afraid. Or callous. Or whatever.

I don't know. My rage is all over the place with this. I think my sense of fairness is ramping up to overcome it. These people didn't sign up to have someone else's life in their hands. I want to be fair to that, but... there was a woman who was surrounded by people and no one helped her. I can't imagine allowing that to happen.

This post has been a waste of time.

*Extremely well thought out and concise post with a lot of care and thought put into it*
"This post was a waste of time."
*looks back at own contributions to thread, including "fisting-a-guy"*

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

*Extremely well thought out and concise post with a lot of care and thought put into it*
"This post was a waste of time."
*looks back at own contributions to thread, including "fisting-a-guy"*
View attachment 4741

I was planning on making a joke about the city of brotherly love but I chose to be classy.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

I was planning on making a joke about the city of brotherly love but I chose to be classy.

Yeah, but the temptation was just too much for me. Besides, I mean, what else is there left for me to say? Everything I would have said has already been: I don't know for sure what I would have done, people who recorded were awful (would for sure not have done), etc.

 

[Terminal Blue]

As someone who has been to war, shot at, nearly bombed, and has seen plenty of violence. I don't think it ever gets easier, unless you maybe already have a mindset for violence like a pro boxer or MMA fighter.

I mean, those things aren't really comparable. They sound actually bad.

Be careful though, because this could easily be asked of the victim as to why she isn't gouging the fucker's eyes out or doing anything and everything to get away.

There are countless reasons why she might not be doing those things. She could be vulnerable in a huge range of ways. She could be in shock or traumatized, which under those circumstances is reasonable. None of that applies to bystanders. They chose not to act because it was easier for them, or because they were afraid in the very abstract sense people are afraid when nothing is actually happening to them.

The early parts of that article make it sound like the two people knew each other and in that case it could have come across as a couple airing their drama publicly. Which would also explain why people tried to ignore it by looking at their phones. A lot of people do not like getting involved in domestic cases, and a lot of times both parties involved actively protest against outside interference.

So you're saying that they let a woman be raped in front of them because their fear of social embarrassment outweighed any sense of concern.

Thank God they have you to advocate for them, otherwise they might come across as awful people.

I hope it was worth it, and that they're not feeling any social embarrassment now..

 

[CriticalGaming]

There are countless reasons why she might not be doing those things. She could be vulnerable in a huge range of ways. She could be in shock or traumatized, which under those circumstances is reasonable. None of that applies to bystanders. They chose not to act because it was easier for them, or because they were afraid in the very abstract sense people are afraid when nothing is actually happening to them.

So you want then to jump into a situation in which something might actually happen to them?

Id be scared as shit if i was attacked by a fucking bear, but that doesnt mean i wouldnt be doing my best to get the fuck away.

So you're saying that they let a woman be raped in front of them because their fear of social embarrassment outweighed any sense of concern.

Thank God they have you to advocate for them, otherwise they might come across as awful people.

I hope it was worth it, and that they're not feeling any social embarrassment now..

Im explaining the psychological phenomena that can occur within a group to showcase how said thing could have happened. Crime with witnesses happens all the fucking time and most witnesses just watch and do nothing about it.

Inaction happens for many reasons. Im so glad you are quick to call people shitty you dont even know based on some perception in an article that doesnt have nearly enough information in to paint a clear picture.

The article says people came and go during this incident. How many people saw just an argument, versus how many saw it get escalated? You dont know and people who only saw an argument would likely not do anything about it.

 

[tippy2k2]

Good(ish?) update on this I guess

No Proof Anyone ‘Callously' Took Video of Rape on SEPTA Train, DA Says

Passengers did not sit around and record cellphone video of a rape aboard a SEPTA train for their own gratification without contacting authorities, Delaware County’s top prosecutor said Thursday.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

 

[Gergar12]

This is why people should carry pepper spray with them.

 

[Gergar12]

Tucker Carlson Tonight has confirmed that Fiston Ngoy, who was arrested last week for allegedly raping the woman in a brutal attack on a SEPTA train in front of other passengers, came to the U.S. legally in 2012 on a student visa.

And Fox News shall now demonize student visas.