A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

Agema

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Racial minorities consistently poll more conservative than they are liberal or progressive.
As long as you ignore some really important things that contribute to what people see as conservative or otherwise, and as long as you ignore that what parties represent is a lot more complex than conservative vs. liberal/progressive, sure, this all makes sense.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Mystery man revealed: Former President Donald Trump’s social media manager Dan Scavino secretly sued Verizon last month to block the Jan. 6 select committee from accessing his phone records, but his lawyers just revealed his identity Friday.

Scavino had originally tried to file the suit anonymously in federal court in Washington, D.C., but Judge Beryl Howell rejected his attempt to sue anonymously on Jan. 19, writing Scavino had “failed to demonstrate a need for secrecy or identify consequences likely to befall” him for proceeding in the suit by using his own name.

Why he's suing: The Capitol riot panel had subpoenaed the phone records of Trump social media chief Dan Scavino in December, prompting him to sue Verizon. The initial subpoena for Scavino’s testimony and documents came in September, part of the select committee’s first batch sent to senior Trump aides, including former chief of staff Mark Meadows.


Pushing back: Scavino, through his attorney Stan Brand, sought to fight the subpoena by arguing the select panel had no “valid legislative purpose” to seek his information and thus their effort to force Verizon to cooperate was unenforceable. His argument echoes those made by others fighting subpoenas like MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell and pro-Trump commentator and radio host Sebastian Gorka. More than a dozen top Trump allies are suing the panel, including former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, attorney John Eastman and Meadows.

This week the Supreme Court upheld the panel's legislative purpose, ruling against Trump as he tried to shield his White House records from investigators' review. That could scramble the calculus in many of these other lawsuits.

A committee spokesperson declined to comment. Verizon did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


Me as pedant would just like to point out a sloppy error in that statement.

The order talks about Dominion doing its banking with the "Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank Corporation (HSBC), a bank with its foundation in China and its current headquarters in London, United Kingdom".

This is not true. The organisation based in London is called HSBC: just the acronym. Not only that, but the order got the full name the acronym derives from wrong anyway: it's Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. This full name is still used, but for the Hong Kong subsidiary of HSBC. Dominion may well have their IP listed with the Hong Kong subsidiary, but if that is the case, the corporation they bank with is not headquartered in the UK.

It is also deeply questionable to claim HSBC had its foundation in China, because it was founded in Hong Kong under British rule; plus that when it transferred its HQ to London in 1991, Hong Kong was still a British dependency, meaning that the highest level of the company (Currently "HSBC Holdings plc") has always operated under British sovereignty.
Impressive they've managed to restrain their sloppiness within the bounds of pedantry this time. Though I imagine legal documents live and die on pedantic lines as much as any other.
 

Silvanus

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Racial minorities consistently poll more conservative than they are liberal or progressive. If you dissolved racial voting blocks, and people voted just on who they agree with most, Republicans get a huge windfall of votes. The motivation for framing Republicans as opposed to minorities is really clear, yes.
It's rather frustrating that you'll just shift the topic onto something else when you receive a counterargument. We were talking about why Republicans would want "election security/ voting restriction" rules. The fact that the groups that are most affected are still overwhelmingly voting against the Republicans is a relevant reply to that question.... so then you just shift onto talking about why you think that's the case. But that doesn't address the actual substance of the point.

You asked why Republicans would want that "box closed". Minorities voting anti-Republican, regardless of why you think they do that, is a direct response.

---

To address what you did write above, it's more than a little patronising and insulting to suggest minorities are all just being misled, and that this white guy here knows what's best for them better than they are able to decide for themselves.

Plus, it's almost like there's a disconnect between the party's sanitised self-description and it's actual conduct and behaviour in office.
 
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Silvanus

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Me as pedant would just like to point out a sloppy error in that statement.

[...]

The organisation based in London is called HSBC: just the acronym.
Well, as long as we're being pedants... 'HSBC' is an abbreviation, not an acronym (even if it legally doesn't stand for anything there).
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Racial minorities consistently poll more conservative than they are liberal or progressive. If you dissolved racial voting blocks, and people voted just on who they agree with most, Republicans get a huge windfall of votes. The motivation for framing Republicans as opposed to minorities is really clear, yes.
So, I dunno what you think "racial voting blocks" are, but I'm 95% sure you're wrong
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Well, as long as we're being pedants... 'HSBC' is an abbreviation, not an acronym (even if it legally doesn't stand for anything there).
An acronym is a type of abbreviation: a word formed from the initial components of other words. I struggle to see why HSBC is not an acronym.
 

Cheetodust

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An acronym is a type of abbreviation: a word formed from the initial components of other words. I struggle to see why HSBC is not an acronym.
An acronym has to be pronouncable as a word. NASA, SCUBA. An initialism is when each letter is pronounced individually. Now that being said I think the mass lack of pedantry around this means they can effectively be treated as synonyms and anyone who corrects you should be treated the same way as anyone who says "Actually it should be 10 items or fewer." That is, burned with lit cigarettes and spat on until they leave the premises.
 

Silvanus

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An acronym is a type of abbreviation: a word formed from the initial components of other words. I struggle to see why HSBC is not an acronym.
An acronym is an abbreviation intended to be pronounced like a distinct word itself, like NASA, UKIP, SARS, etc. Unless HSBC is meant to be pronounced "Hisbik" or something, it's a common-or-garden abbreviation (or 'initialism' if you like).

An acronym has to be pronouncable as a word. NASA, SCUBA. An initialism is when each letter is pronounced individually. Now that being said I think the mass lack of pedantry around this means they can effectively be treated as synonyms and anyone who corrects you should be treated the same way as anyone who says "Actually it should be 10 items or fewer." That is, burned with lit cigarettes and spat on until they leave the premises.
Hey now, I'm only pedanting because he pedanted first! It's open season!
 

Cheetodust

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An acronym is an abbreviation intended to be pronounced like a distinct word itself, like NASA, UKIP, SARS, etc. Unless HSBC is meant to be pronounced "Hisbik" or something, it's a common-or-garden abbreviation (or 'initialism' if you like).



Hey now, I'm only pedanting because he pedanted first! It's open season!
I am guilty of aiding and abetting this pedantry. I'm only referring to the kind of people who actually give a shit.
 

tstorm823

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In which Tstorm outright declares that black people are too stupid to break free of "herd mentality" without the help of white people.
This applies to multiple people, but I'm on my phone today, so I'm just gonna single quote.

Collective action is not indicative of lack of intelligence. It's difficult for 13% of a population to enact policy for themselves, but focused within a single party, that 13% can be 30%, and with a small coalition can quickly represent a majority within that party.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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This applies to multiple people, but I'm on my phone today, so I'm just gonna single quote.

Collective action is not indicative of lack of intelligence. It's difficult for 13% of a population to enact policy for themselves, but focused within a single party, that 13% can be 30%, and with a small coalition can quickly represent a majority within that party.
Neat. That applies to zero responses you got without significant elaboration
 

Silvanus

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3/4, actually. Everyone but you, I think.
The fact is that minority groups do not (in the majority) agree with the actions of the Republican Party.

They may agree with principles the Republican Party purports to represent, but does not in practice.

They express this overwhelmingly in elections, providing a solid plausible motive for efforts to drive down the vote.
 
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tstorm823

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The fact is that minority groups do not (in the majority) agree with the actions of the Republican Party.

They may agree with principles the Republican Party purports to represent, but does not in practice.

They express this overwhelmingly in elections, providing a solid plausible motive for efforts to drive down the vote.
So to be clear, you think that Republicans pass policies that people support and don't actually suppress voting out of belief they will suppress votes and not because their constituents support them?

You don't think there is a solid plausible electoral motive to enact popular policies?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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So to be clear, you think that Republicans pass policies that people support and don't actually suppress voting out of belief they will suppress votes and not because their constituents support them?
"Doesn't actually suppress votes"
This is, of course, entirely false. We have a plethora of data showing exactly that. Contrary to your apparent belief, refusing to acknowledge the evidence doesn't make it not exist.

We know that voter fraud, particularly the kind that would be stopped by voter id is essentially non-existent.


We also know that voter id laws have a suppression effect.


When combined, these two facts show that the GOP are supporting and enacting voter id laws that suppress certain voters without solving any actual problems. That leaves us with the question of why it's being done, whether it be ignorance of very basic and well-researched facts or malice against the voters they are choosing to suppress.
You don't think there is a solid plausible electoral motive to enact popular policies?
I'm pretty sure enacting popular policy in the particular ways their overwhelmingly white base supports is a large part of why the GOPs non-white support is so small

Like "reforming police to make civilians safer" is a policy I support wholeheartedly. But if that's expressed by giving cops huger budgets to buy more surplus military gear and sending them to killology seminars, I'm not a hypocrite for being against that, regardless of the false equivalency

For example: I am 100% certain that the GOP is anti-voting integrity. Because I know they are 100% against free, verified national federal identification and standardized federal election criteria. The GOP *wants* a convoluted hodge-podge electoral scheme and non-standardized paid for at point of sale state ID. And for anybody claiming they're in favor of election integrity, that's a nightmare
 
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tstorm823

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"Doesn't actually suppress votes"

I'm pretty sure enacting popular policy in the particular ways their overwhelmingly white base supports is a large part of why the GOPs non-white support is so small

Like "reforming police to make civilians safer" is a policy I support wholeheartedly. But if that's expressed by giving cops huger budgets to buy more surplus military gear and sending them to killology seminars, I'm not a hypocrite for being against that, regardless of the false equivalency

For example: I am 100% certain that the GOP is anti-voting integrity. Because I know they are 100% against free, verified national federal identification and standardized federal election criteria. The GOP *wants* a convoluted hodge-podge electoral scheme and non-standardized paid for at point of sale state ID. And for anybody claiming they're in favor of election integrity, that's a nightmare
Standardized solutions to varied situations are a mistake. America is not homogenous, the best election procedures are equally not homogenous. That being said, the local morning guy on conservative talk radio this past week was talking about how we should have national I'd cards and automatic registration, so I don't think you're in tune with the Republican circles on that.

Also, I believe most or all states with strict voter IDs provide free ID.
 

Silvanus

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So to be clear, you think that Republicans pass policies that people support and don't actually suppress voting out of belief they will suppress votes and not because their constituents support them?

You don't think there is a solid plausible electoral motive to enact popular policies?
"So to be clear, you believe [a description of events that requires you to accept all my arguments you've thus far rejected]?"

No, funnily enough. I believe Republicans pass restrictive electoral policies which go significantly beyond anything most people actually expressed support for. And if something is popular, but doesn't help them (i.e. mail-in voting nationally), they'll fight tooth and nail against it. Because popularity, oddly enough, is not their criterion.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Standardized solutions to varied situations are a mistake. America is not homogenous, the best election procedures are equally not homogenous.
Except when the Democrats do something to boost votes, which is stealing elections. You're all about varied solutions to varied problems...until they're Democratic Solutions. Then, the State is allowed to run roughshod over counties and cities because Varied Solutions be damned. Except when the state leans blue, in which case it's a Miscarriage Of Justice.

I say we give the National Standard thing a shot. After all, we don't know it won't work and if it's horribly unbalanced and unfair we can always fix it next time, just like with all those voter suppression bills
That being said, the local morning guy on conservative talk radio this past week was talking about how we should have national I'd cards and automatic registration, so I don't think you're in tune with the Republican circles on that.
And he's not in tune with the national GOP and most State GOP parties
Also, I believe most or all states with strict voter IDs provide free ID.
Your beliefs are not reality. You should probably engage with those many articles and sources of information
 
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