A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

tstorm823

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I say we give the National Standard thing a shot. After all, we don't know it won't work and if it's horribly unbalanced and unfair we can always fix it next time, just like with all those voter suppression bills
You're talking about a ratchet, it only goes one way. Once the federal government takes control of something, it never, ever gives it back.
Your beliefs are not reality. You should probably engage with those many articles and sources of information
Allow me to update my phrasing then: states with voter id laws offer free voter ids. I've engage with articles and sources of information, it's the truth.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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You're talking about a ratchet, it only goes one way. Once the federal government takes control of something, it never, ever gives it back.
And that works on the State level too, so...maybe we don't potentially make voting harder for certain groups of people on the idea that we'll just fix it later, especially when it's solving a "problem" that doesn't exist to begin with
Allow me to update my phrasing then: states with voter id laws offer free voter ids. I've engage with articles and sources of information, it's the truth.
Lmao
 

tstorm823

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This is a joke, right?

a) Their calculations are stupid without even needing context. "This guy took a bus to the dmv several times because he didn't know when the dmv was open. We estimate that wasted hundreds of dollars worth of time." That's just silly.
b) Their information was already horribly outdated when they published it. PA never had the voter ID law enforced in any election, these are theoretical people who voluntarily spent their time getting an ID that was already known to be unneeded before it was even available.
c-z22) You explicitly said "paid for at point of sale".
 

MrCalavera

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I'll just say that both of these things: POC in the US tending to be more conservative AND same POC voting overwhelmingly for Democrats; can be true.
As long as you remember what each party represents.
 

BrawlMan

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And a free man is going to jail for his own stupidity and evil.

You ain't remorseful. Your upset, because you got caught and could not get away with it. I am so sick of this "I didn't know what I was doing. Or I am regretful or remorseful". Fuck you!

All that boasting, you still decide to delete your photos in hope the FBI don't catch you.
 

Thaluikhain

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Avnger

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Allow me to update my phrasing then: states with voter id laws offer free voter ids. I've engage with articles and sources of information, it's the truth.
I'm just going to add in that it's rather amusing how you expect us to prove every argument made perfectly, but you believe your arguments are so self-evidently truthful that you claiming "engagement" with some nebulous unnamed source is enough.
 
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tstorm823

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I'm just going to add in that it's rather amusing how you expect us to prove every argument made perfectly, but you believe your arguments are so self-evidently truthful that you claiming "engagement" with some nebulous unnamed source is enough.
I haven't been at my computer for a couple days and am responding from my phone, so I've been a bit lazier than normal.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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This is a joke, right?

a) Their calculations are stupid without even needing context. "This guy took a bus to the dmv several times because he didn't know when the dmv was open. We estimate that wasted hundreds of dollars worth of time." That's just silly.
b) Their information was already horribly outdated when they published it. PA never had the voter ID law enforced in any election, these are theoretical people who voluntarily spent their time getting an ID that was already known to be unneeded before it was even available.
c-z22) You explicitly said "paid for at point of sale".
It's weird how you say things that are immediately debunked by simple google searches
Like, I know you live in a perfect world where nothing goes wrong or changes, but I'm in a situation where I lost out on several hundred dollars because the local county call center closed down at 4 PM for some godforsaken reason. And no, they don't list that on the document that told me to call them

Shockingly, the number of DMV and county office closures and incidents of "non-standard hours" also correlates to polling place closures and restrictions. Super weird how certain demographics keep getting shafted
I haven't been at my computer for a couple days and am responding from my phone, so I've been a bit lazier than normal.
Couldn't tell the difference.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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And a free man is going to jail for his own stupidity and evil.

You ain't remorseful. Your upset, because you got caught and could not get away with it. I am so sick of this "I didn't know what I was doing. Or I am regretful or remorseful". Fuck you!

All that boasting, you still decide to delete your photos in hope the FBI don't catch you.
No, see, consequences are for other people. What gets me is the sheer number of veterans involved: excuse me sir/mam, but are you somehow unaware of the nature of the organization you were part of for years?
 
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Schadrach

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In which Tstorm outright declares that black people are too stupid to break free of "herd mentality" without the help of white people.
I mean, I've seen people who claim to be progressive do the same thing, more specifically in the form of denying someone is a member of an identity group on the basis that their beliefs are not in line with what that race/sex/whatever is supposed to believe.

Hannah Wallen (one of Honey Badger Radio) is notorious for being accused of being a man along those lines, about once a week on average.

By the definitions they use, it's impossible for a photo ID to be free if they have to leave home to get it or if they are required to provide documents to prove their identity. Even if it was literally a photo ID you could get without cost by filling out a form on an app on your phone and supplying a photo from your phone, requiring no backing documents and simply presumed to be accurate, it *still* wouldn't be a really free ID because they'd have to know they needed it which involves a time cost.

That's an unreachable bar for it to be "free" - it would literally have to just be sent to you wherever you might be without you even knowing you needed it and magically having all your correct info including a current photo of you without you taking any action whatsoever. And that assumes that "opening the envelope and reading the explanation for this plastic card they sent you that you didn't order doesn't qualify as a "time cost."
 

Avnger

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No, see, consequences are for other people. What gets me is the sheer number of veterans involved: excuse me sir/mam, but are you somehow unaware of the nature of the organization you were part of for years?
The US military's enlisted ranks are still largely recruited from more (relative to the majority of the populace) poor, rural, and conservative areas. It also takes in a lot of people who didn't necessarily have the best post-high school graduation opportunities, so education isn't always a priority. When you then add in that right-wing terrorist groups such as the III% or Oathkeepers purposely direct "trainees" to the army/marines for minimum service terms to gain experience, it's no surprise that there's a larger than usual veteran presence.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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By the definitions they use, it's impossible for a photo ID to be free if they have to leave home to get it or if they are required to provide documents to prove their identity. Even if it was literally a photo ID you could get without cost by filling out a form on an app on your phone and supplying a photo from your phone, requiring no backing documents and simply presumed to be accurate, it *still* wouldn't be a really free ID because they'd have to know they needed it which involves a time cost.

That's an unreachable bar for it to be "free" - it would literally have to just be sent to you wherever you might be without you even knowing you needed it and magically having all your correct info including a current photo of you without you taking any action whatsoever. And that assumes that "opening the envelope and reading the explanation for this plastic card they sent you that you didn't order doesn't qualify as a "time cost."
Do they *actually make that argument* or are you going to extremes to try and discredit a valid argument?
 
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Silvanus

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By the definitions they use, it's impossible for a photo ID to be free if they have to leave home to get it or if they are required to provide documents to prove their identity. Even if it was literally a photo ID you could get without cost by filling out a form on an app on your phone and supplying a photo from your phone, requiring no backing documents and simply presumed to be accurate, it *still* wouldn't be a really free ID because they'd have to know they needed it which involves a time cost.

That's an unreachable bar for it to be "free" - it would literally have to just be sent to you wherever you might be without you even knowing you needed it and magically having all your correct info including a current photo of you without you taking any action whatsoever. And that assumes that "opening the envelope and reading the explanation for this plastic card they sent you that you didn't order doesn't qualify as a "time cost."
You only read the first few pages, right?

The time / travel are merely listed as one criterion among several. In none of the situations analysed was that the sole cost involved. So no, the article was not just finding minor time costs and declaring the ID wasn't free. It tallied numerous tangential costs and found out it usually still costs 70 - 100 dollars.
 
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tstorm823

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It's weird how you say things that are immediately debunked by simple google searches
It's weird how you make claims like Republicans are making people pay directly for ID and have nothing at all to support that. Actually, it's not that weird, it's pretty par for the course here.
 

tstorm823

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In none of the situations analysed was that the sole cost involved.
In the second example they detail, the only costs are time and travel. They decided to add $10 to get a his birth certificate, with the caveat that he only has to pay that if he doesn't have it and also doesn't ask for a free copy... that's a pretty good indication of how seriously you should take their analysis.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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It's weird how you make claims like Republicans are making people pay directly for ID and have nothing at all to support that. Actually, it's not that weird, it's pretty par for the course here.
If they make you get a new ID, and getting that new ID costs money, then they're making people pay for ID, yes. Transitive property
 

Thaluikhain

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No, see, consequences are for other people. What gets me is the sheer number of veterans involved: excuse me sir/mam, but are you somehow unaware of the nature of the organization you were part of for years?
What gets me is all the anti-vaxxer veterans. Who would have done the human pincushion thing early on where they got loads of shots. It used to be with right scary looking injection thingies, don't know if they still use them.