Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,269
970
118
Country
USA
Of course, to some people, "actually criminalizing the murder of gay people" is "social liberalism getting a little out of hand".
We're at the point in the culture where they can't fill driving positions with 6-digit salaries and training provided because not enough candidates can pass the drug test. Expect a realignment of priorities in the near future.
 

The Rogue Wolf

Stealthy Carnivore
Legacy
Nov 25, 2007
16,951
9,652
118
Stalking the Digital Tundra
Gender
✅
We're at the point in the culture where they can't fill driving positions with 6-digit salaries and training provided because not enough candidates can pass the drug test. Expect a realignment of priorities in the near future.
If you were trying to seem vaguely menacing, 10/10. If you were trying for a cogent point, -4/10.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,094
3,062
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
There is a concerted effort by left wing activists to make trans people as visible as possible to specifically children, because they believe the same as you. The majority of the population resents this effort. It is backfiring, dramatically. Culture is not a linear system, it is a sine wave. The wild years of the early 1900s led to the conservative 40s and 50s, which created the counterculture of the 60s and 70s, which led to the conservative 80s and 90s, followed by the more liberal 2000s. We flip basically every 20 years which is the dominant cultural sentiment, and we are sliding right into a decade of conservative dominance as the predictable reaction to social liberalism getting a little out of hand.
A majority of population resents it?

A majority of the population do not care about either side of the culture war. Generally, they are supportive transrights

As to think its a sine wave. That's a no from me too. There was a LOT of conservatives movements that dominates social spheres in the 60/70s. Otherwise Civil Rights and the ERA would have been a shoe in, along with medicare for all and drug legalisation
 

Cheetodust

Elite Member
Jun 2, 2020
1,583
2,293
118
Country
Ireland
Super weird how trans people got super visible immediately after conservatives lost the fight to keep gay marriage illegal. But sure, it was left wing activism
And how now conservatives are weirdly obsessed with furries. It's definitely got nothing to do with the fact that conservatives are a bunch of hyper repressed weirdos who think anything besides missionary position is social degradation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buyetyen

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,269
970
118
Country
USA
A majority of population resents it?

A majority of the population do not care about either side of the culture war. Generally, they are supportive transrights
A vast majority want trans people not do be harassed or assaulted.
A thin majority would let them use whatever bathroom they want.
A shrinking minority want to open women's sports to trans women.
Almost nobody wants a pride parade song telling children about non-binary dolphins in Blues Clues. That's what people resent.

You're right that people don't really care about the culture war. But that doesn't mean they have no opinion when you shove it down their throats. If anything, it's the people who don't care that get most annoyed by the activism.
As to think its a sine wave. That's a no from me too. There was a LOT of conservatives movements that dominates social spheres in the 60/70s. Otherwise Civil Rights and the ERA would have been a shoe in, along with medicare for all and drug legalisation
Multiple Civil Rights Acts did pass, the ERA was first imagined in that time period, Medicare was first implemented in that period, and most of the drug laws on the books now weren't there until the 80s. What are you talking about? It's like you're trying to prove my point.
 

Buyetyen

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,129
2,362
118
Country
USA
A vast majority want trans people not do be harassed or assaulted.
A thin majority would let them use whatever bathroom they want.
A shrinking minority want to open women's sports to trans women.
Almost nobody wants a pride parade song telling children about non-binary dolphins in Blues Clues. That's what people resent.

You're right that people don't really care about the culture war. But that doesn't mean they have no opinion when you shove it down their throats. If anything, it's the people who don't care that get most annoyed by the activism.
And it never occurs to you that people might resent conservatives' constant shoving culture war bullshit down our throats? You really think it only cuts one way?

Multiple Civil Rights Acts did pass, the ERA was first imagined in that time period, Medicare was first implemented in that period, and most of the drug laws on the books now weren't there until the 80s. What are you talking about? It's like you're trying to prove my point.
They passed with heavy opposition. It was not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination. That was the point. Pay attention.
 

Buyetyen

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,129
2,362
118
Country
USA
https://nordot.app/889668371944325120?c=592622757532812385

Florida is taking, "Don't say gay," a step further. They've withdrawn from the CDC's biannual Youth Risk Behavior Survey. So far the state has offered no explanation, no comment, nothing.

On the heels of the state’s so-called ”Don’t Say Gay” law, the Florida Department of Education has quietly dropped out of a 31-year-old CDC survey of students that includes questions of mental well-being, suicidal thoughts, sexual orientation and gender identity.

Mental health advocates called the move “an incredibly dangerous precedent” and said the data produced by the survey is essential for understanding the struggles of adolescents and teens and guiding public policy.

The department did not respond to a request to explain the decision.

Norín Dollard, a senior policy analyst at the nonpartisan Florida Policy Institute and director of Florida KIDS COUNT, part of an annual assessment of child well-being in the United States, said Florida’s decision to withdraw from the survey “was done in darkness, without any type of opportunity for public input.”

“The (CDC survey) is a longstanding, trusted source of data that lawmakers, advocates, state agencies and nonprofits have relied on over the years to identify trends in potentially harmful behavior among Florida’s youth,” Dollard said. “Without the survey, it is unclear how the state intends to analyze things like the prevalence of bullying and mental illness among teens.”
It's worth noting that the survey includes questions about sexual orientation and gender identity. Kind of crosses the T, doesn't it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thaluikhain

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
12,246
6,459
118
Country
United Kingdom
Yes. Obviously not in level of extremeness, but in the sense of "oh crap, we took medical science a little to far there". Again, how do you not see that this is just drugging children to make them conform to social expectations?
Because social expectations are literally the opposite, and the kid wants to go against them.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
9,735
833
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Love how we went from "you aren't forcing people to put themselves to cops" to "it's not bad to forcibly out people"

Besides, how fucking useful is it for a bearded dude to be described as female for 99.99% of interactions with that ID? Is that useful for buying alcohol? For when you get pulled over? For when the State is doing a manhunt? No, the fuck, of course not! It would just look fake! Useful if your transphobic bouncer wants an excuse to kick somebody's ass though.

Police harassment kills more people than would be saved on the off chance you're unconscious after a gender-relevant injury where the only way for the doc to know what's up is to rummage through your personal effects.

How much money you want to bet that Mugsy Bogues, celebrated NBA star, immortalized in the cult classic Space Jam, does not have a height advantage on any woman of the WNBA, despite being a cis man his entire life?

New rules for finding the *acceptable* level of naturally occurring testosterone for women to have to count as women. I mean, I personally believe that any amount of naturally occurring testosterone is acceptable for women to have, but people trying to protect women playing women's sport seem to disagree

Motive matters. The former, a common entirely made up argument, has and will never happen

Maybe. Yet. Haven't seen one though, least one we wouldn't fix deficiencies of with steroids and hormones
Why would police be using something that's not descriptive to identify someone? It would be like describing Michael Jackson as black because his ID says he's black or someone has long hair in their ID pic and now they have short hair. Bouncers already discriminate, you act like a bouncer needs an ID to figure out someone is trans.

How are police going to harass trans people because of sex on IDs? Police harassment is like pulling over more black people because they're black using, you know, their eyes to see. Unless you're going to say the police are going to remember some trans person and the car they drive after they see their ID and then purposefully harass them because they can do that without checking their ID as there's "clues" to figure it out without an ID.

Like I said, men continue growing more after puberty than women, thus Mugsy Bogues or Shaq would almost certainly be shorter if they were women. Height matters in quite a few sports.

Of course, anything naturally occurring shouldn't get anyone banned. Regardless of trans women, you would still have to screen for testosterone because men and women can take testosterone to gain advantages. I don't see why trans women would cause said testing, regardless if they did indeed started because of that, it should've always been screened for anyway.

I asked what does it matter if it's because someone wants to transition or do it purposefully for advantage because said advantage is the same regardless. Advantage does care about motive.

I listed a few already; taller, bigger heart, bigger lungs.

First, look up the phrase "semantic argument", then realize that the "why" is irrelevant: states are not banning trans girls from playing sports in the same way they did not ban gay men from getting married.
Yes. It is. You are *impaling* yourself on this point. Claiming that trans girls aren't getting banned from playing sports is like arguing gay men weren't banned from getting married.

Trans girls *are banned* from playing with girls.
Gay men *were banned* from marrying men.

If trans girls aren't banned from sport, then gay men weren't banned from marriage. That's the *semantic* argument you are making.
Your argument is completely disingenuous as sex doesn't matter in marriage but sex matters in sports. It's why sports are separated by sex and always will be. I don't get how it's a semantic argument at all.


The birth sex is outdated information. It is something that is no longer particularly useful for actually identifying the person.

The correct analogy would be including somebody's weight and height at birth on their ID. Since they've changed.
I've explained how sex is useful for doctors in emergency situations. And if you want gender to be on the ID instead, then what does that matter because you can identify as any gender you want any given day.


I haven't seen this argument since before the Obergefel decision came down and it's aged like milk.
I did have a typo in that "(if the government didn't recognize marriage, the whole debate would've been a thing in the 1st place) " as it should be 'wouldn't have been'. If the government didn't recognize marriage then gay marriage wouldn't have been an issue because there would be no advantages gay people were missing out on and they could just create their own religion (if traditional ones wouldn't allow for gay marriage) to be able to get married if they wanted to. It would be like having a tax break for people who were baptized and those that aren't baptized and don't believe in that religion are disadvantaged. The Obergefel decision is over the 14th amendment because everyone having equal opportunity, and that's why gay marriage not being recognized was creating inequality. If marriage was recognized the same as baptism (no recognition), there would be no inequality present.
 

Buyetyen

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,129
2,362
118
Country
USA
I did have a typo in that "(if the government didn't recognize marriage, the whole debate would've been a thing in the 1st place) " as it should be 'wouldn't have been'. If the government didn't recognize marriage then gay marriage wouldn't have been an issue because there would be no advantages gay people were missing out on and they could just create their own religion (if traditional ones wouldn't allow for gay marriage) to be able to get married if they wanted to. It would be like having a tax break for people who were baptized and those that aren't baptized and don't believe in that religion are disadvantaged. The Obergefel decision is over the 14th amendment because everyone having equal opportunity, and that's why gay marriage not being recognized was creating inequality. If marriage was recognized the same as baptism (no recognition), there would be no inequality present.
That would mean no tax incentives for married couples, visitation rights at hospitals would be thornier, questions of inheritance, and a whole bunch of other downstream effects. No, the government not recognizing marriage in any secular capacity is just a stupid idea. Also, "create their own religion?" Atheists can just fuck right off and die, huh? Nice to know what you actually think of us. Marriage is not just a religious concept, and if you don't understand that, maybe you shouldn't get married.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Sep 16, 2014
8,507
7,086
118
Country
United States
Why would police be using something that's not descriptive to identify someone? It would be like describing Michael Jackson as black because his ID says he's black or someone has long hair in their ID pic and now they have short hair. Bouncers already discriminate, you act like a bouncer needs an ID to figure out someone is trans.
You haven't seen very many trans people then. Or heard the stories of butch women getting harassed and attacked for not looking femme enough
How are police going to harass trans people because of sex on IDs? Police harassment is like pulling over more black people because they're black using, you know, their eyes to see. Unless you're going to say the police are going to remember some trans person and the car they drive after they see their ID and then purposefully harass them because they can do that without checking their ID as there's "clues" to figure it out without an ID.
Lmao, you have a distinct lack of imagination/ability to look up anything, huh. (EDIT: just realized this, but couldn't a medical doctor use those "clues" to do the medical shit you're super concerned about without fucking up somebody's ability to buy beer?)
Like I said, men continue growing more after puberty than women, thus Mugsy Bogues or Shaq would almost certainly be shorter if they were women. Height matters in quite a few sports.
Whether or not some hypothetical person might've been shorter in a different life is irrelevant to claiming a height advantage in the real world. "Men are taller on average" does not mean that any individual person then necessarily has an advantage. Mugsy Bouges, celebrated cis man, does not have a height advantage on real actual people by virtue of being a dude. Trends do not apply to individuals.

Besides, this is fixed by giving kids hormones, a thing that I'm guessing you are *super* against
Of course, anything naturally occurring shouldn't get anyone banned. Regardless of trans women, you would still have to screen for testosterone because men and women can take testosterone to gain advantages. I don't see why trans women would cause said testing, regardless if they did indeed started because of that, it should've always been screened for anyway.
Well, it does, regardless of if you see why. Cis women are being banned for having too much natural testosterone
I asked what does it matter if it's because someone wants to transition or do it purposefully for advantage because said advantage is the same regardless. Advantage does care about motive.

I listed a few already; taller, bigger heart, bigger lungs.
All things modifiable by hormones and steroids, seeing as we modify them with steroids and hormones
Your argument is completely disingenuous as sex doesn't matter in marriage but sex matters in sports. It's why sports are separated by sex and always will be. I don't get how it's a semantic argument at all.
My argument is that states have never banned a gay man from his ability to get married, just like states have never banned a trans girl from playing sports, as per your argument.

Incidentally, Florida wants to ban trans children from life:
I've explained how sex is useful for doctors in emergency situations. And if you want gender to be on the ID instead, then what does that matter because you can identify as any gender you want any given day.
That is super not how self ID works, not least of which is that ID takes 4-6 weeks to get mailed.
 
Last edited:

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,094
3,062
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
A vast majority want trans people not do be harassed or assaulted.
Yep
A thin majority would let them use whatever bathroom they want.
Legit nobody actually cares (except those that are told that trans are bad) and they dont even know when they are using the toilet. Some countries dont even have genders on their bathrooms.
A shrinking minority want to open women's sports to trans women.
Again, legit, they general public does not care one way or the other. It's definitely not shrinking
Almost nobody wants a pride parade song telling children about non-binary dolphins in Blues Clues. That's what people resent.
Again, nobody actually cares. Many of the song and themes on Sesame Street, Paw Patrol, Peppa Pig are steep in conservative hetero traditional propaganda. It's normal, as things become the tradition, for it to join the propaganda
Multiple Civil Rights Acts did pass, the ERA was first imagined in that time period, Medicare was first implemented in that period, and most of the drug laws on the books now weren't there until the 80s. What are you talking about? It's like you're trying to prove my point.
Do you understand the concept of shoe in? Like it would have been easy? CRA did NOT pass easily. In fact, there was a lot of bloodshed over it. Riots that make BLM look like a calming cook out. And then there's the fact that CRA was detoothed to make sure it didn't actually do that much
When they lost that, they turned to the ERA, hence that act losing.
Yep, Medicare was implemented. And they have spent the next 50 years trying to get it to work because it was broken by those who opposed it at the start (many of them Dems). And by broken here, I actually mean not designed to work. (I wonder if you are noticing a trend here...)
The war of drug start in '71. It just continued into the '80s because it was a politically scoring tool. It takes a long time for movements to form. MAGA was relatively quick in the general scheme on things, but the base of Qanon etc have been going from decades. It didnt just spring up. Neither did Regean war on drugs
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Jun 21, 2012
9,094
3,062
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
I've been trying to find out what specifically got a bunch of Maths textbook banned. Here's what some publishes are guessing about their own books


DeSantis and hosts critiques go for about 3 mins before getting to the publishers stance
 

tstorm823

Elite Member
Legacy
Aug 4, 2011
7,269
970
118
Country
USA
Do you understand the concept of shoe in? Like it would have been easy?
I do, but your comment was so dumb, I skipped past the obvious and gave you a second chance.

What sort of person looks back at a time when a bunch of popular liberal ideas were invented and passed and thinks "it doesn't count as a liberal moment in history if they didn't pass everything super easily"? What is the logic you're trying to employ? There has never been a moment in American governance when any faction could do whatever they wanted without opposition. Your argument applied evenly would suggest that there has never been a moment in time where one side had a meaningful lead. That's absolute nonsense.