There are plenty of criticism I've had of TLJ. Even on this site
I somehow navigated all those hundreds of conversations with being called sexist or whatever you think is going to happen
Actually, it was real easy. My suggestion - don't attack people based on their gender
Because generally you've had to dance round stuff and make it very clear you're "Not one of them" by talking about how bad "They" are maybe?
So you might also recall that I asked whether the 'wokeness' of Vagrant Queen was coming from the producers or the wider media. Based on those links, it appears that the latter is the case. If Vagrant Queen is perceived as 'woke,' then it seems it's an interpretation people have come up with.
I can't remember off the top of my head who it was but I think it was one of the producers or showrunner on about it on twitter. I want to say it was like Maggs Vissagio or something but I'm pretty sure that's some-one else.
That said, going through each of the articles, here's my thoughts on them:
First: Woke, riddled with identity politics
Second: Actually, this is a pretty decent article. It looks at the LGBT aspects, but also everything from the show's conception to the casting. I don't think I can cite this as an example of wokeness.
Third: Fairly woke. It's not as obnoxious as the first article, and look, if those are the ten most important things to the author, more power to them, but I don't think "watch X because it's got Y" in it is that compelling an argument.
fair enough there.
Some of what happened in her most recent comic book run.
She got an origin story:
She's from a parallel dimension where society is a utopia called utopian parallel where there are no men only women and everyone is a lesbian. The Parallel universe was destroyed maybe as it sacrificed itself to save the multiverse with her parents sending her to our universe to save her and in the hopes she will do good.
She got into university:
Which was an all Latino university whose rivals are a rich elitist university entirely populated by white men. Oh and they turn out to be villains and or cyborgs or something.
She got a relationship:
With a fellow student also a Latino girl who also happens to be the smartest person in the Marvel Universe now because the writer said so until Moon Girl was then made the smartest person in the Marvel Universe by her writer 2 weeks later.
Oh and her relationship was polyamorous so she flirted with / got off with other latino lesbian women she met on her adventures too.
She got new Powers:
She can now punch holes in time and reality. How? Don't ask questions she just can now.
She got an iconic Marvel Moment involving her:
Unfortunately it was Captain America's best known moment where he punches Hitler. In this rewrite of Marvel history America Chavez was actually the one who punched Hitler and not Captain America but history changed it to be Captain America because racism.
People pointing out some of this stupid stuff got yelled at and called bigots and at one point insane plots to try to goad youtubers into fights to then film them defending themselves and try to have them banned from places and thrown in prison happened. Yes really. Oh and there were multiple attempts to dox youtubers critical of the storylines.
But you're essentially starting from a foregone conclusion - that if the characters are bad, then "forced diversity" is the reason why, whereas if they're good, then it's a non-issue. It also sets a double standard.
No it's two different sets of standards at play.
Character Good
Character Bad
vs
Character Diverse
Character not Diverse.
The issue comes with conflating the two things which happens quite a lot unfortunately.
The put it simply does a character being diverse make them a better character?
The answer should be for any right minded individual NO, it shouldn't matter as long as they're well written.
The problem is merely because they're diverse some people are going to bat for the characters believing it makes them good merely because they're diverse and "We have to fight back and own dem bigots"
I mean it's hilariously fucking stupid and there was the whole "The Alt-Right are rallying behind Alita Battle Angel because they're sexists" argument being thrown out by some. Apparently some people are easily influenced by weighted words and terms such that they don't actually bother looking into stuff or believe no matter what anyone says they're all secretly paid agents of some sinister league of evil whose whole nefarious plan for world domination is to make the film about a cyborg girl get a sequel and the film about the superhero lady make the billion dollar company a few million less...........such a plan eh?
I mean, if we go back to Marvel for example, let's compare America Chavez with, say, Kamala Khan. Both are 'diverse' (frankly, I think that's a silly way of looking at media in general, but whatever), and let's say that America Chavez is poorly written (no idea if it is, let's just assume that). But on the other hand, there's Ms. Marvel/Kamala Khan, who's actually a pretty fun character (personal opinion) and generally well received by a wider audience (a somewhat objective statement). So, when A.C. fails, it's "forced diversity," but when Ms. Marvel succeeds, it's...unforced diversity?
Because the failure of America Chavez by her defenders is being pinned on her race / sexuality. While with Kamala Khan her success isn't being pinned on hers by most people.
I can apply this to Doctor Who as well. It's simply possible that the companions of Thirteen aren't well written, while prior companions were well written, because after all, none of the traits in Thirteen's fam were absent from past companions. We've had black companions (Martha, Bill), and LGBT companions (Captain Jack).
And to be frank, I haven't seen the BBC go down the route of "if you don't like DW, you're a bigot." In this case, it looks like you're projecting. And to be frank, I've made my distaste for Chibnall's run abundantly clear on these forums from the get-go (see my reviews on the "non-movies" thread), no-one's ever accused me of being a bigot for it.
No-one has accused you over Doctor Who because we've reached the point in the cycle (and arguably did just before Flux) where acceptance is setting in as it does in many areas. I do remember at points in the past on other topics people were starting to imply or accuse you of things though lol.
The narrative or attempts at it have happened again and again and outside of a few hold outs generally it collapses and people change their tune on things. E.G. outside of a few still in games media it's generally been accepted that people objecting to Mass Effect 3 and it's ending weren't secret homophobes who all just hated the gay romance option being present.
Look at Star Wars fandom now. It's generally accepted the Sequel trilogy was a bit of a mess and wasn't that good outside of the hardcore reylo shippers who are sill probably too busy harassing social media managers off twitter.
Um, if an alien antagonist is saying that, maybe you're not meant to agree with it?
As for Kat Grant balancing things out, I don't really recall that. Though I'll take your word for it. I think the 'feminist scenes' in season 2 are fairly cringeworthy, but not as cringeworthy as the Flash's "hashtag feminism" moment with all th egirls fistbumping. (yes, for those of you at home, that's an actual line).
Yes you're not meant to agree with it.
Thing being some lines like that can come off as allegories for real groups and it being presented as a strawman of them.
It would have been like if the villains against aliens in Supergirl started chanting "Make Earth Great Again". During the time Trump was running for office.
Media done well examines both sides of an argument to some degree even if it comes down on one side ultimately. Imagine if the Star Trek TNG Drumhead it ended with the Chancellor woman pulling a phaser and Worf getting shot too because he's sided with her? It didn't. Picard presented his position and in the end Worf comes to apologise and say he believed her so much and was deceived with Picard saying how it's all right but to be vigilant going forward.
A Better example I can give is Farscape with the return to earth arc where Crichton finds out about events in his absence that have changed things in the world as 9/11 has happened and made people more isolationist and less willing to work together. John's dad isn't presented as some cartoonish villain.
In Supergirl the moment I remember is when Kat Grant and Kara are talking about the paper naming the new hero Supergirl and Kara says isn't it a bit sexist and infantilising as clearly Supergirl is actually a grown women so shouldn't it be Super Woman. Only for Kat Grant to say something like "Well I'm a girl still, or consider myself one, I've still youthful virbant and energetic is there something wrong with being considered a girl? Is a girl somehow less capable than a woman?"
