Our Covid Response

crimson5pheonix

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No it doesn't.
Yes it does, demonstrably so.

What states did what I said to do? Focused protection and focus on ventilation? You do realize I never said just to do nothing. I've never seen a single cost-benefit analysis ever posted by anyone showing that lockdowns have greater benefits than harms. You do realize that hypothetically a place can have 0 covid deaths and have done things that created more harm than covid, right? Did the US fare poorly because of policy or because the US population is perhaps the unhealthiest in the world? And much covid policy has caused people to be even unhealthier sometimes from covid itself (like closing beaches) so is the life lost from more people being unhealthy in the long run outweighed by the covid life you saved?
Maybe if you didn't talk out your ass, you might have a point. You've posted 0 informative information in this whole thread though. Now that all your data has been exposed as fraudulent, you only have vague nonsense to hold on to. That California has done better than Florida at every time frame you want to look at should be you re-evaluating your position. Instead that fact doesn't count any more because of numbers you can't provide and would be fake anyway even if you did.

Yeah saying "adjusting" is real stupid when to get figures for different places with the age being weighted you search for "adjusted for age"........ So where's an scientist or research saying weighing numbers is inherently dumb and stupid like you said? Funny how my questions never get answered with any actual proof.
If you didn't fight strawmen all day, you might realize what's being argued here. What *you* posted is not only fraudulent, but was stupid on it's face even if they used correct numbers. Your pseudoscience websites were the only ones that ever "adjusted for age" by just erasing deaths. That you can recognize that these websites lied to you, and you will still defend them for some silly reason. And you've turned it into a crusade because you have categorically failed to recognize why the math presented was wrong. You're not some maverick defying mainstream opinion, you're just grossly and aggressively uninformed.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Because covid was novel. You got any numbers for covid being worse than the flu for those with prior immunity?
No, because I don't have access to an alternate reality. And neither do you. So we should treat it like the novel disease it is.
What states did what I said to do? Focused protection and focus on ventilation?
"Why didn't states just spend hundreds of billions of dollars and a decade of time overhauling hvac systems in every public and commercial building instead?"

See, states probably focused on masks and social distancing and quarantines because states focusing on years long massive overhauls to basic building design and expensive hvac systems would've still been in its starting phase.
 
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Gordon_4

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How long was Spanish Flu around? Please express the answer as a proportion of the timeframe that Influenza has been around.
The Spanish Flu pandemic ran from 1918 to 1920 and it’s death toll is accepted but not fully confirmed to be 50million people, with an unconfirmed infection foot print of 500million people - a third of the global population of the day.

I’ll let you decide what myriad of factors in the early 1900s would have left so many vulnerable to the disease.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yes it does, demonstrably so.



Maybe if you didn't talk out your ass, you might have a point. You've posted 0 informative information in this whole thread though. Now that all your data has been exposed as fraudulent, you only have vague nonsense to hold on to. That California has done better than Florida at every time frame you want to look at should be you re-evaluating your position. Instead that fact doesn't count any more because of numbers you can't provide and would be fake anyway even if you did.



If you didn't fight strawmen all day, you might realize what's being argued here. What *you* posted is not only fraudulent, but was stupid on it's face even if they used correct numbers. Your pseudoscience websites were the only ones that ever "adjusted for age" by just erasing deaths. That you can recognize that these websites lied to you, and you will still defend them for some silly reason. And you've turned it into a crusade because you have categorically failed to recognize why the math presented was wrong. You're not some maverick defying mainstream opinion, you're just grossly and aggressively uninformed.
No, no it does not, it's literally an objective fact you're arguing against.

Florida has done above average when adjusted for age. A place like California just wasn't supposed to merely do better than Florida, Florida was supposed to be a post-apocalyptic hellscape because they didn't listen to Fauci.

Cost-benefit analysis of school closures JUST for the Spring 2020 (not for 18 whole fucking months).

Increase in the gap in education between by race and economic status. I thought you were for policy that does literally the opposite?

Closing school for 18 months is perhaps the greatest tragedy of the covid pandemic. I've yet to see a single cost-benefit analysis on lockdowns that puts their benefits ahead of their costs. Where's your sources?

I don't strawman. You literally said weighing numbers is stupid, I merely have asked for proof on why that's stupid. The equation was not erasing deaths, it was weighing them. You better get on the horn to the CDC that adjusting for age is stupid...

No, because I don't have access to an alternate reality. And neither do you. So we should treat it like the novel disease it is.

"Why didn't states just spend hundreds of billions of dollars and a decade of time overhauling hvac systems in every public and commercial building instead?"

See, states probably focused on masks and social distancing and quarantines because states focusing on years long massive overhauls to basic building design and expensive hvac systems would've still been in its starting phase.
The CDC has those numbers... It's not an alternate reality. How many people are getting hospitalized and dying that had prior covid or vaccination? You think we don't have these records? The CDC has data by age for just boosters. Funny thing is they only released the data for age groups over 50 because most likely boosters don't do shit for those under 50 (as data from other countries has already shown). They literally have the data and won't release it. They also have the data for suicides after Jan 2021 but also won't release it.

Uhh.. what about literally just opening windows? We where told to wash hands that did nothing, but opening windows that helps A LOT was not communicated. One of my friends that's a teacher, their school principle literally instructed them to not open windows and not run a fan (so the air didn't travel around the room, that was his logic), no fucking joke.

How long was Spanish Flu around? Please express the answer as a proportion of the timeframe that Influenza has been around.
I don't feel like looking that up because I know if you use the same time frame as covid, the Spanish flu killed far far more and it's not even close.


The Spanish Flu pandemic ran from 1918 to 1920 and it’s death toll is accepted but not fully confirmed to be 50million people, with an unconfirmed infection foot print of 500million people - a third of the global population of the day.

I’ll let you decide what myriad of factors in the early 1900s would have left so many vulnerable to the disease.
One of the most important factors to the Spanish flu is that it preyed on the young while covid preys on the old. Protecting the young is a lot harder because the young are the workers that keep basic goods and services available, and were fighting in a world war at the time.
 
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Gordon_4

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One of the most important factors to the Spanish flu is that it preyed on the young while covid preys on the old. Protecting the young is a lot harder because the young are the workers that keep basic goods and services available.
Yes. The young, most of whom had just spent years fighting World War One, in conditions most people would describe as 'fucking horrendous'. Shellshock, exposure, malnutrition, the effects of mustard gas attacks, poor conditions on transport and last but not least, minus one century of medical technology and knowledge.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Uhh.. what about literally just opening windows? We where told to wash hands that did nothing, but opening windows that helps A LOT was not communicated. One of my friends that's a teacher, their school principle literally instructed them to not open windows and not run a fan (so the air didn't travel around the room, that was his logic), no fucking joke.
You are so full of goddamned shit you need a plumber
 

crimson5pheonix

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No, no it does not, it's literally an objective fact you're arguing against.
No it isn't, only your crackpot websites that make up data use that method as far as I've seen, I feel secure in ignoring it.

Florida has done above average when adjusted for age. A place like California just wasn't supposed to merely do better than Florida, Florida was supposed to be a post-apocalyptic hellscape because they didn't listen to Fauci.
Florida has not and you've provided no evidence to say it has. And California has done a ton better than Florida. I would call a difference of 50% in mortality a pretty damn big difference.

Cost-benefit analysis of school closures JUST for the Spring 2020 (not for 18 whole fucking months).

Increase in the gap in education between by race and economic status. I thought you were for policy that does literally the opposite?

Closing school for 18 months is perhaps the greatest tragedy of the covid pandemic. I've yet to see a single cost-benefit analysis on lockdowns that puts their benefits ahead of their costs. Where's your sources?
I've no reason to believe your sources. Everything you post has been objectively wrong on at least one level, I see no reason to click on anymore of your links.

I don't strawman. You literally said weighing numbers is stupid, I merely have asked for proof on why that's stupid. The equation was not erasing deaths, it was weighing them. You better get on the horn to the CDC that adjusting for age is stupid...
They don't use your crackpot method of adjusting for age. They use a method similar to what I said pages ago where you compare the per-capita death rate by age category. You do strawman and you have no clue what you're actually saying.
 

Silvanus

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I don't feel like looking that up because I know if you use the same time frame as covid, the Spanish flu killed far far more and it's not even close.
OK, I'll work it out for you if you can't be bothered.

The 1918 influenza pandemic lasted approximately 2 years. Influenza A has been causing documented epidemics since about 1170 (with possible descriptions thousands of years earlier). Meaning the 1918 pandemic covers 2 / 850 years (with the denominator likely to be much, much higher).

Or as a fraction: 1/1700. Or 0.11% of the timeframe of Influenza A's existence (at the very most, and likely much less).

By comparison, Sars-Covid-2 was identified in Dec 2019, and reached pandemic status in March 2020. So it's been documented for 30 months, and has been at pandemic status for 26 of those.

Or as a fraction: 43/50 (and that's rounded down). Or 86.6% of the timeframe of Influenza A's existence.

Huh.
 

Agema

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You couldn't even talk about kids wearing masks on Youtube when like no other country in the world was masking kids.
Well, that's an interesting point.

The paper you just cited about school closures points out that school closures were considered in favour of infection control procedures that could have mitigated risk and allowed education to continue. But you've sat here for the last two years roundly condemning or devaluing all forms of infection control!

You fail to realize in America, people only watch the news caters to their beliefs
This is a fascinating criticism coming from a man who only cites information that caters to his beliefs.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Yes. The young, most of whom had just spend years fighting World War One, in conditions most people would describe as 'fucking horrendous'. Shellshock, exposure, malnutrition, the effects of mustard gas attacks, poor conditions on transport and last but not least, minus one century of medical technology and knowledge.
And what newfangled medical interventions have we used to fight covid (pre-vaccines)? The only thing that works somewhat well are steroids. We have proning as a thing to do but that isn't any sort of technology obviously. We found out ventilating is a bad idea. If covid came out in 1920, the only thing we'd be down is steroids I think, I don't feel like looking up when steroids became common enough to be readily prescribed. Also, Americans are probably less healthy now than they were back then.


You are so full of goddamned shit you need a plumber
I'm talking something being messaged to the public effectively, not put on a CDC webpage that no one goes to. I just searched in Youtube for "cnn covid ventilation", not a single video about doing that. I also searched Youtube for "fauci covid ventilation" and 1 single video on it that was published over a year into the pandemic. If you think the public was messaged about ventilation for covid, then you're literally a crazy person.


OK, I'll work it out for you if you can't be bothered.

The 1918 influenza pandemic lasted approximately 2 years. Influenza A has been causing documented epidemics since about 1170 (with possible descriptions thousands of years earlier). Meaning the 1918 pandemic covers 2 / 850 years (with the denominator likely to be much, much higher).

Or as a fraction: 1/1700. Or 0.11% of the timeframe of Influenza A's existence (at the very most, and likely much less).

By comparison, Sars-Covid-2 was identified in Dec 2019, and reached pandemic status in March 2020. So it's been documented for 30 months, and has been at pandemic status for 26 of those.

Or as a fraction: 43/50 (and that's rounded down). Or 86.6% of the timeframe of Influenza A's existence.

Huh.
We have no clue how many people died because of the flu in history. I don't see what the point of this whole exercise is. The fact is if I was either going to be injected with the Spanish flu or covid, I'd choose covid because it's less deadly. And I get transmission can be argued but when the flu/head cold gets passed around by your group of friends/family/co-workers, you're very likely to get catch it and same goes for covid. Yes, covid number of infections are way higher than probably flu numbers but people were running to get tested for covid while no one really cares to tested for the flu as most don't care if it's just a head cold or the actual flu, thus those official numbers will be way lower.

No it isn't, only your crackpot websites that make up data use that method as far as I've seen, I feel secure in ignoring it.



Florida has not and you've provided no evidence to say it has. And California has done a ton better than Florida. I would call a difference of 50% in mortality a pretty damn big difference.



I've no reason to believe your sources. Everything you post has been objectively wrong on at least one level, I see no reason to click on anymore of your links.



They don't use your crackpot method of adjusting for age. They use a method similar to what I said pages ago where you compare the per-capita death rate by age category. You do strawman and you have no clue what you're actually saying.
When you adjust for age, Florida has done above average, that is a fact.

Yet you've posted no sources backing up your argument. JAMA isn't reliable?

To adjust for age or race or whatever, you weigh numbers, that's how you do it.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Well, that's an interesting point.

The paper you just cited about school closures points out that school closures were considered in favour of infection control procedures that could have mitigated risk and allowed education to continue. But you've sat here for the last two years roundly condemning or devaluing all forms of infection control!



This is a fascinating criticism coming from a man who only cites information that caters to his beliefs.
I'm in favor of doing what causes the least harm. If the infection control measure results in more benefit than harm, it's good. If it does not, then it's not good. It's that simple. Nobody here has ever provided any source saying lockdowns provide more benefit than harm. Also, I've never said that doing the common sense stuff like not having massive gathering indoors like theaters or conventions is stupid. What was stupid was closing beaches or not having outdoor concerts or not having fans at baseball stadiums that are outdoors.

You're the one that wouldn't even say masking outside is stupid. You're the one posting poorly done mask studies as proof masks work when all the highest quality studies we have for masking all say masks either do nothing or only help by a few percentage points.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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When you adjust for age, Florida has done above average, that is a fact.
It's not one you've demonstrated, your sources made up their data.

Yet you've posted no sources backing up your argument. JAMA isn't reliable?
I have several times. The CDC.

To adjust for age or race or whatever, you weigh numbers, that's how you do it.
No you don't.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I'm talking something being messaged to the public effectively, not put on a CDC webpage that no one goes to. I just searched in Youtube for "cnn covid ventilation", not a single video about doing that. I also searched Youtube for "fauci covid ventilation" and 1 single video on it that was published over a year into the pandemic. If you think the public was messaged about ventilation for covid, then you're literally a crazy person.
Lmao, damn near every medical and government health site with internet was messaging about it. Sorry it didn't break into your social media, which is apparently just CNN's YouTube channel.

Bet if you searched something easy that didn't cross over with an important piece of medical kit or a specific person, you'd get a lot more hits. Try "covid indoors"
 
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Cheetodust

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I'm talking something being messaged to the public effectively, not put on a CDC webpage that no one goes to. I just searched in Youtube for "cnn covid ventilation", not a single video about doing that. I also searched Youtube for "fauci covid ventilation" and 1 single video on it that was published over a year into the pandemic. If you think the public was messaged about ventilation for covid, then you're literally a crazy person.
Tell me you don't know how to research without telling me you don't know how to research.
 

Silvanus

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We have no clue how many people died because of the flu in history. I don't see what the point of this whole exercise is. The fact is if I was either going to be injected with the Spanish flu or covid, I'd choose covid because it's less deadly.
The point of the exercise is to show that when you said "equivalent timeframe", you were actually using completely incomparable timeframes. You chose to compare the 2 most severe years of Influenza A (out of 850+) with the entire duration of Covid.
 
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Trunkage

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I'm talking something being messaged to the public effectively, not put on a CDC webpage that no one goes to. I just searched in Youtube for "cnn covid ventilation", not a single video about doing that. I also searched Youtube for "fauci covid ventilation" and 1 single video on it that was published over a year into the pandemic. If you think the public was messaged about ventilation for covid, then you're literally a crazy person.
Who would have thought that, after all the MSM banging on about ventilation being a good way to help with COVID from about June 2020 would be seen as 'not getting the message across'?

What an incredible claim. Next, you going to tell us no one us that 9/11 happened

EDIT: Follow up question: Did you never watch MSM during the Pandemic?
 
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Agema

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I'm in favor of doing what causes the least harm.
No, you're not.

Do you know why not? Because you do things like advocate mass ingestion of drugs with no identified efficacy for covid but a welter of side effects. You have, multiple times, pointed out to us how you have happily ignored safety protocols from a position of ignorance. You have constantly underweighed or lied about the efficacy of infection control measures such as masking.

You're the one that wouldn't even say masking outside is stupid.
I stated that outside masking is reasonable in certain situations where you may be at unusually high risk: such as situations where you are unlikely to have decent social distancing (e.g. densely packed crowds), as is entirely consistent and obvious if you think about how droplet spreading works.

I just searched in Youtube for "cnn covid ventilation", not a single video about doing that. I also searched Youtube for "fauci covid ventilation" and 1 single video on it that was published over a year into the pandemic.
Telling us that you are shit at searching for information does not prove to anyone that information isn't out there.