Our Covid Response

[Agema]

Said policies weren't allowed to be discussed.

Conspiracy theory bullshit.

There are a welter of think tanks, policy units, and academics, plus whole sympathetic governments (e.g. Florida) with the ability to discuss policies and in the latter case, carry them out.

You're using bullshit logic on data that does not show that at all.

I am offering a plausible hypothesis according to the data presented. One would expect a jurisdiction that ran significantly effective policies to protect a certain group would have unusually low mortality in that group. If there isn't unusually low mortality, it suggests they did not have effective policies.

The fact that Florida's done better than average has shown they work.

Just repeating something doesn't make it true: there is no compelling argument to claim Florida did better than average.

 

[Trunkage]

Then, going by that metric, flu is far more deadly than covid and it ain't even close and so is driving.

We all like a good laugh. Thanks for your daily jokes

The baby formula that would be coming in from foreign countries is already inspected by said countries that have at least comparable (probably better) standards than the US. Europe has better food standards than the US. Why do you need $20+ million to hire more inspectors?

I want you to reread that sentence back to your self, considering that this outbreak of two separate diseases got through

Let me spell this out as plainly as I can. IF DISEASES GOT THROUGH THE INSPECTION PROCESS, THEN YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE INSPECTION PROCESS

Is that clear enough for you? Jesus Christ

 

[Phoenixmgs]

No, mortality rate is not all there is to epidemiology. If a virus has a lower mortality rate, but is far more easily transmitted, it can cause more death within a given population. Covid-19 killed far more people.

Then, the flu is far deadlier than covid.

I did.



No, you lemming. I already posted that just a couple months before then Florida's mortality rate was 50% higher than California's. You can pretend you've forgotten all you like, but everyone else can already see what was posted.



That's not adjusting then is it, now you're saying something completely different. Get on track.

No, you didn't, you said it doesn't count old people, which isn't true.

Then, how did California basically catch up to Florida then if it was doing all these measures that the "science" says would stop such a thing from happening?

By adjusting I meant the thing we've been talking about the whole time, weighing, I've been on track the whole time, sorry for using a synonym. Please cite a scientist that says weighing numbers is inherently bad or "stupid" as you have claimed it is.

Conspiracy theory bullshit.

There are a welter of think tanks, policy units, and academics, plus whole sympathetic governments (e.g. Florida) with the ability to discuss policies and in the latter case, carry them out.



I am offering a plausible hypothesis according to the data presented. One would expect a jurisdiction that ran significantly effective policies to protect a certain group would have unusually low mortality in that group. If there isn't unusually low mortality, it suggests they did not have effective policies.



Just repeating something doesn't make it true: there is no compelling argument to claim Florida did better than average.

Discussion of such things was not allowed by the media. Why do you think DeSantis got nicknamed DeathSantis when his state did better than average? The discussion over whether kids just maybe shouldn't wear masks was removed from Youtube when like no other country in the world masked kids. There was massive self-censorship in the medical professions because of fear of going against the "science".

The data that crimson5pheonix was a far far far better way of determining how well a state protected old people, the only problem with what was posted was the very short time span that the data represented and really only ended up showing which states had a covid wave during that time vs how well they were able to protect the elderly.

When adjusting for age, Florida did better than average. Florida on straight mortality did better than Michigan that was one of the most restrictive states in the US.

I want you to reread that sentence back to your self, considering that this outbreak of two separate diseases got through

Let me spell this out as plainly as I can. IF DISEASES GOT THROUGH THE INSPECTION PROCESS, THEN YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE INSPECTION PROCESS

Is that clear enough for you? Jesus Christ

Democrats claimed the money is needed for inspectors for bringing in baby formula from other countries.

Wisconsin Republicans explain 'no' vote on baby formula bill

Four of Wisconsin's five Republican representatives in the U.S. House shared their reasoning Thursday for voting against a $28 million baby formula bill one day earlier.

www.wxow.com

Why does changing the inspection process require $28 million, technically $39 million because the FDA just got $11 million for that 2 months ago? Making food safe is not some rocket science. You can make your own baby formula at home, it's not some super elaborate and hard thing to do.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Then, the flu is far deadlier than covid.

The flu kills two orders of magnitude fewer people a year, at most

 

[crimson5pheonix]

No, you didn't, you said it doesn't count old people, which isn't true.

It does, mathematically.

Then, how did California basically catch up to Florida then if it was doing all these measures that the "science" says would stop such a thing from happening?

My guess is a wave hit California before it hit Florida, because it widened out again and has continued to do so, Florida keeps looking worse and worse compared to California. When the vaccine started to get rolled out, Florida had a roughly 50% higher mortality rate than California. Today it is still at roughly 50%. Considering your whole entire ass premise is that because we can compare 2 states, we should judge policy for the nation, which is incredibly stupid. You won't hear any talk about the fact that most other developed nations have outperformed America as a whole, you won't hear how the policies you champion don't work on average within the US, and you have to lie and reference liars to even pretend your one single point of comparison is at all relevant. You have never, not once, posted anything intelligent or persuasive. You're reflexively contrarian to the point where you can agree the information you post is outright lying, but still believe it.

Truly, you are where critical thinking goes to die.

By adjusting I meant the thing we've been talking about the whole time, weighing, I've been on track the whole time, sorry for using a synonym. Please cite a scientist that says weighing numbers is inherently bad or "stupid" as you have claimed it is.

You said adjusting, which is stupid. Because that's not a synonym. You just like moving goalposts whenever things don't go your way. Unfortunately that's often. You only ever quote people with stupid ideas and have to lie about their numbers to even pretend their point makes sense.

 

[Agema]

Discussion of such things was not allowed by the media.

Conspiracy theory. Take a quick look at the sorts of things that Fox News and the WSJ have put forward. Do you really think this claim is credible?

There was massive self-censorship in the medical professions because of fear of going against the "science".

Conspiracy theory.

The data that crimson5pheonix was a far far far better way of determining how well a state protected old people, the only problem with what was posted was the very short time span that the data represented and really only ended up showing which states had a covid wave during that time vs how well they were able to protect the elderly.

When adjusting for age, Florida did better than average. Florida on straight mortality did better than Michigan that was one of the most restrictive states in the US.

Do you really not comprehend how absurd it is to dispute other people's claims by attacking the studies they put forward, and then make such strong claims based on some random, unverified equation you found on a company website?

You could hardly do a better job of telling everyone you have no standards, and that you just believe what suits you.

 

[Trunkage]

Democrats claimed the money is needed for inspectors for bringing in baby formula from other countries.

Wisconsin Republicans explain 'no' vote on baby formula bill

Four of Wisconsin's five Republican representatives in the U.S. House shared their reasoning Thursday for voting against a $28 million baby formula bill one day earlier.

www.wxow.com

Why does changing the inspection process require $28 million, technically $39 million because the FDA just got $11 million for that 2 months ago? Making food safe is not some rocket science. You can make your own baby formula at home, it's not some super elaborate and hard thing to do.

So, I felt like just copying and pasting what I last wrote

But... maybe this is just people not being aware of... (old) current events.

China has an issue with baby formula in 2008. I remember last year, and every years since 2008, shelves in Australia being (at times) devoid of baby formula. You cannot buy more than 2 cans (at least when I last checked last year). They literally buy 2 cans at a time (probably hitting multiple stores) and physically ship it to China to awaiting family members who are desperate not to use Chinese formula even 13 years later (Note: I haven't checked this year but I would be surprised if there were supply shortages.)

For the love of the gods, get more inspectors

 

[Trunkage]

The flu kills two orders of magnitude fewer people a year, at most

It's more like 5 to 7

 

[Gordon_4]

So, I felt like just copying and pasting what I last wrote

But... maybe this is just people not being aware of... (old) current events.

China has an issue with baby formula in 2008. I remember last year, and every years since 2008, shelves in Australia being (at times) devoid of baby formula. You cannot buy more than 2 cans (at least when I last checked last year). They literally buy 2 cans at a time (probably hitting multiple stores) and physically ship it to China to awaiting family members who are desperate not to use Chinese formula even 13 years later (Note: I haven't checked this year but I would be surprised if there were supply shortages.)

For the love of the gods, get more inspectors

Fucking hell, I remember they were still limiting people to two cans from shops when my wife and I had our twins in 2014. Luckily we joined a multiple birth society who placed orders on our behalf, so we could get like, six or eight tins at a time. Which sounds like a lot, but when you're feeding twin infants eight or so times a day, the stuff can disappear pretty quickly.

 

[Silvanus]

Then, the flu is far deadlier than covid.

Over the entire timeframe that the flu has been around, yes.

Over an equivalent timeframe, no.

 

[Trunkage]

Fucking hell, I remember they were still limiting people to two cans from shops when my wife and I had our twins in 2014. Luckily we joined a multiple birth society who placed orders on our behalf, so we could get like, six or eight tins at a time. Which sounds like a lot, but when you're feeding twin infants eight or so times a day, the stuff can disappear pretty quickly.

I only ever bought 2 cans per child when breastfeeding wasnt possible. 95% of the time they were breastfeed. My kids are 5 years apart, so I did the 2014 thing. And then again later. If anything it was worse the second time around finding baby formula... I had to go to a pharmacy once.

 

[Eacaraxe]

China has an issue with baby formula in 2008. I remember last year, and every years since 2008, shelves in Australia being (at times) devoid of baby formula. You cannot buy more than 2 cans (at least when I last checked last year). They literally buy 2 cans at a time (probably hitting multiple stores) and physically ship it to China to awaiting family members who are desperate not to use Chinese formula even 13 years later (Note: I haven't checked this year but I would be surprised if there were supply shortages.)

The Chinese government also executed two of those responsible by firing squad and billed their next-of-kin for the bullets, and gave life sentences to the rest.

The assclowns responsible for this particular fuck-up in the US are probably going to get bailouts and golden parachutes while their companies tank the civil suits. While the even bigger assclowns who voted for the deregulation (and trade protectionism) that allowed this, and likely will vote for the bailout, are the same assclowns who reliably vote to ban abortion. Because once they're out of the womb, fuck 'em.

 

[Trunkage]

The Chinese government also executed two of those responsible by firing squad and billed their next-of-kin for the bullets, and gave life sentences to the rest.

The assclowns responsible for this particular fuck-up in the US are probably going to get bailouts and golden parachutes while their companies tank the civil suits.

This is true

Shooting them did not give a whole bunch of Chinese citizens any confidence it wont happen again

 

[Eacaraxe]

This is true

Shooting them did not give a whole bunch of Chinese citizens any confidence it wont happen again

If it were to happen again, I'm pretty sure the Chinese government still has more bullets than people. Eventually, someone will get the notion all one has to do to avoid being merced as the manager of a baby formula plant, is not manufacture and sell tainted baby formula.

 

[Trunkage]

If it were to happen again, I'm pretty sure the Chinese government still has more bullets than people. Eventually, someone will get the notion all one has to do to avoid being merced as the manager of a baby formula plant, is not manufacture and sell tainted baby formula.

It's been 14 years. It's still a problem.

1) A whole bunch of Chinese people do not trust their government. It does not matter how many people you shoot
2) This does not stop any accidental screw ups
3) It's being reactive, not proactive
4) Has not built up any confidence in Chinese product

If you want an American example, I suggest you look up why you cant generally buy cranberries from a fruit store for 60 years

 

[Trunkage]

Pediatrician discussing European formula half way through

 

[Silvanus]

1) A whole bunch of Chinese people do not trust their government. It does not matter how many people you shoot
2) This does not stop any accidental screw ups
3) It's being reactive, not proactive
4) Has not built up any confidence in Chinese product

True. But it's a damn shame that governments so rarely offer anything between the two moronic extremes of 'zero reckoning for industrial corruption/ endangerment' and 'psychotic state violence'.

Just once in a while I'd like to see... you know, genuine accountability, followed by functional legal retribution and regulation to prevent future incidents. From either the US or China. Either one would be nice, please.

 

[Trunkage]

True. But it's a damn shame that governments so rarely offer anything between the two moronic extremes of 'zero reckoning for industrial corruption/ endangerment' and 'psychotic state violence'.

Just once in a while I'd like to see... you know, genuine accountability, followed by functional legal retribution and regulation to prevent future incidents. From either the US or China. Either one would be nice, please.

I'd agree... but here's a wrinkle

Jamie Dimon lost something like 3 Billion over his role in the GFC. He still had a half billion left over. Even that's not a punishment, because he can just do it all over again

It's how I know the Austrian economist are speaking out of their arse when it comes to this part of markets. Their 'economic punishment will lead to better decisions' doesn't account for real life

 

[Agema]

It's how I know the Austrian economist are speaking out of their arse when it comes to this part of markets. Their 'economic punishment will lead to better decisions' doesn't account for real life

And not just them.

The whole mainstream concept in economics that assumes economic actors as rational is increasingly viewed as very doubtful.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The flu kills two orders of magnitude fewer people a year, at most

Because covid was novel. You got any numbers for covid being worse than the flu for those with prior immunity?

It does, mathematically.



My guess is a wave hit California before it hit Florida, because it widened out again and has continued to do so, Florida keeps looking worse and worse compared to California. When the vaccine started to get rolled out, Florida had a roughly 50% higher mortality rate than California. Today it is still at roughly 50%. Considering your whole entire ass premise is that because we can compare 2 states, we should judge policy for the nation, which is incredibly stupid. You won't hear any talk about the fact that most other developed nations have outperformed America as a whole, you won't hear how the policies you champion don't work on average within the US, and you have to lie and reference liars to even pretend your one single point of comparison is at all relevant. You have never, not once, posted anything intelligent or persuasive. You're reflexively contrarian to the point where you can agree the information you post is outright lying, but still believe it.

Truly, you are where critical thinking goes to die.



You said adjusting, which is stupid. Because that's not a synonym. You just like moving goalposts whenever things don't go your way. Unfortunately that's often. You only ever quote people with stupid ideas and have to lie about their numbers to even pretend their point makes sense.

No it doesn't.

What states did what I said to do? Focused protection and focus on ventilation? You do realize I never said just to do nothing. I've never seen a single cost-benefit analysis ever posted by anyone showing that lockdowns have greater benefits than harms. You do realize that hypothetically a place can have 0 covid deaths and have done things that created more harm than covid, right? Did the US fare poorly because of policy or because the US population is perhaps the unhealthiest in the world? And much covid policy has caused people to be even unhealthier sometimes from covid itself (like closing beaches) so is the life lost from more people being unhealthy in the long run outweighed by the covid life you saved?

Yeah saying "adjusting" is real stupid when to get figures for different places with the age being weighted you search for "adjusted for age"........ So where's an scientist or research saying weighing numbers is inherently dumb and stupid like you said? Funny how my questions never get answered with any actual proof.

Conspiracy theory. Take a quick look at the sorts of things that Fox News and the WSJ have put forward. Do you really think this claim is credible?



Conspiracy theory.



Do you really not comprehend how absurd it is to dispute other people's claims by attacking the studies they put forward, and then make such strong claims based on some random, unverified equation you found on a company website?

You could hardly do a better job of telling everyone you have no standards, and that you just believe what suits you.

You couldn't even talk about kids wearing masks on Youtube when like no other country in the world was masking kids. You fail to realize in America, people only watch the news caters to their beliefs, which is why everyone is so polarized and can't even comprehend how someone else can have a different opinion nowadays because everyone is just feed what they already believe.

Then link to good studies instead of ones that do not at all show what you say they show. Where's a well-done mask study that actually shows they work? Where's a cost-benefit analysis of lockdowns actually showing they save more years of life?

So, I felt like just copying and pasting what I last wrote

But... maybe this is just people not being aware of... (old) current events.

China has an issue with baby formula in 2008. I remember last year, and every years since 2008, shelves in Australia being (at times) devoid of baby formula. You cannot buy more than 2 cans (at least when I last checked last year). They literally buy 2 cans at a time (probably hitting multiple stores) and physically ship it to China to awaiting family members who are desperate not to use Chinese formula even 13 years later (Note: I haven't checked this year but I would be surprised if there were supply shortages.)

For the love of the gods, get more inspectors

So any of the countries that the US would get baby formula from have had any issue with baby formula safety? If people only cared about inspecting the food that enters their own body the way they suddenly now care about baby formula. Most of it isn't very good for babies anyway because there's way too much damn sugar in a lot of US baby formula.

Over the entire timeframe that the flu has been around, yes.

Over an equivalent timeframe, no.

Uhh... Spanish Flu...?