So to get this straight: you believe election results in Russia are exactly as legitimate and fairly-run as they are in the US or elsewhere in Western Europe? That's what you actually believe?
Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
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No, I believe anonymous international polls are true, but the elections are fake.
Looking at your previous posts, it's hard to interpret your stance on that event.
Well, yes, two people can make similar claims about different situations and be judged differently depending on how well the claim applies to that situation. Obviously.
By "unilateral", of course, you mean using bribery and the threat of sanction -- with the use of "with us or against us" rhetoric -- to drag a multilateral force into a falsified and constructed conflict. Words have meaning, bro, so long as that meaning is the exact opposite of what the word actually means.
Unrelated news, here's a video of some dude warning about German overdependence on Russian natural gas exports. That was a thing that happened at some point. How did the Germans react to that warning, and how did the US respond over the course of that dude's (and the next dude's) tenure, one wonders.
We wouldn't have done anything so foolish and pig-headed as attempt to sanction one of our own biggest strategic allies and a fellow NATO member-state over a pipeline, would we?
Just like how every ethnic Russian in Donbas is collectively guilty for the actions of separatist militias and the Wagner Group? You keep citing the Wagner Group, after all, but you really don't seem too keen on discussing what Ukrainian paramilitaries have been doing in the region for eight fucking years.
...and we can just loop right back to that whole "coalition of the willing" I mentioned earlier and US unipolarity on that one.
And, were this the case of rogue paramilitaries engaging in violent criminal activities in a region of the country, which that state government was militarily incapable of policing, you may rest assured my opinion would be quite different. However, with the incorporation of criminal, neo-Nazi paramilitaries and rebranded terrorist organizations into Ukraine's regular military forces and intelligence/police agencies, that is no longer the case. The Ukrainian state has made its ideology quite clear through those actions, and the glorification of those parties by naming Nazi war criminals state heroes and dedicating national holidays to them.
That is why I consider Ukraine a rogue state which shouldn't be receiving international military aid. That's no longer "a troubling existence", that's out-and-out embrace of Nazism. If they ditched that shit, they'd have my support.
The more compelling question here is what would happen to Ukraine, if the state took steps to distance itself from Nazis and Nazism. Let alone strip aid from Nazi groups, or ban Nazism. At this point, there wouldn't be enough of a state left after the inevitable coup and/or civil war, for Russia to take over in the first place.
Period.
You may rest assured we'll come back to this.
Forced deportations of communities on the basis of race is literally the reason there are ethnic Russians in Ukraine in the first place. But you don't want to admit this part; ethnic Russians in Ukraine are victims of Soviet policy too. And that, for the cardinal sin of their grandparents and great-grandparents being forcibly deported to Ukraine under Stalin, Ukrainian Nazis have deemed them worthy of extermination pursuant to mad revanchist fantasy.
And yeah, they were fuckin' Nazis. The OUN didn't get the hint Nazism was no longer en vogue by the end of World War II, and wouldn't stop ethnically cleansing Ukraine and southeast Poland. Kind of the whole principal cause of Operation Vistula.
So, about this...
Ah, yes. History matters, but only so long as it supports your point of view, your political biases, and your desired policy outcomes; otherwise, it's tedious, ignorant, and uncritical. It doesn't matter if it's eighty years or eight months, context fades to nothing for the sake of the now, the moment contravening narratives surface. A paradox that wouldn't have been said better by any Bush administration spokesperson or media proxy.
...so you were saying about the Wagner Group?
When the decision-making process is so concentrated in a single power, to the point where they enforce their will on any supposed "partners"-- as the US did, and as Russia is doing right now-- there's a case to be made for calling a spade a spade.
Nope, ethnic Russians are not guilty for those things, and deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime, whether its perpetrated by Ukrainian or Russian troops.
You know how much that cost my position? Absolutely fucking zilch. Because unlike you, I haven't been attributing guilt to entire groups of non-combatants in an effort to dehumanise them.
Yes, we can loop right back to whataboutism whenever you like.
Ah, so it's just holding civilians responsible for their government making some shitty symbolic moves, then. Much better. Doesn't change the fact you've tried to pin guilt to an entire ethnic group.
Meanwhile, we can remember that none of this matters to Russia anyway-- Russia which trains and directs Nazi paramilitaries from official military bases, sends them on official business around the world, and awards them medals and state awards (even finances propaganda films about them in the CAR). They have zero issue with the incorporation of such elements, so we know for a fact that it's just a rank pretence for invasion.
I fail to see how racist deportations having occurred longer ago is a justification for racist deportations occurring during Vistula.
Once again: using the presence of Nazis to justify forced deportations on the basis of race.
Neither of these are valid defences for racist deportations. Not the fact it happened earlier as well, or the fact that some Nazis are there.
Hey, you're the one who invoked the holodomor and Vistula, and then started whining when it was pointed out how they add to the long, rich tapestry of Russian governments oppressing Ukraine. You're the one who wanted a blinkered, one-sided debate and then got pissy.
I was saying that the Wagner group proves the Russian government's sponsorship of Nazi paramilitaries, demonstrating how they don't give a shit about de-Nazification and will happily utilise them.
You notice how I don't ascribe guilt to Russian civilians, or offer apologia for their slaughter? As you have with Ukrainian civilians?
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Ah yes, the Soviet-Afghan war, that well known conflict which saw the complete triumph of US neocolonialist policy and led to the establishment of a US puppet state by the victorious Mujahideen, who possessed absolutely no autonomous agency or independent political goals whatsoever.
But if your point is that the US is funding Ukraine in order to contain and exhaust Russia, then yes.
Russia, while a laughable shell compared to the Soviet Union, is still a military threat to many European countries which don't have the same kind of military spending as the US or the deep reserves of Russia. If Russia loses in Ukraine then that threat is effectively contained, the security of Europe is assured for the forseeable future, which in turn relieves the US security commitment to Europe thus potentially benefitting the US financially as well.
And if you don't care about the independence of the Baltic states, or Poland, or any other country on the shitlist for "denazification" or if you don't care about the genuinely world-ending possibilities of a hypothetical direct confrontation between Russia and NATO down the line, that probably sounds quite bad. However, beyond the fact that indulging the idea of Russia and the US as genuine rivals is laughable and frankly cruel, the fact that the affected states have shown a demonstrable willingness to endure a level of serious economic pain the US would never even countenance in order to assist Ukraine should probably tell you that the inhabitants of Poland, the Baltic States, Finland and so forth absolutely do care about maintaining their independence from Russia.
Okay, so you're saying Ukraine isn't a puppet state, that US influence is limited at best and the goal was never actually to establish any such control.
Cool, I'm glad we agree
Right, but again where is the real?
Realpolitik is not an end, it is a means. It is not a meaningful defense against the fact that you are alleging actions that don't, on any level, make sense. What is the end? What is the objective, "stupid" or otherwise, to any of this?
It must be very gratifying to believe that not only is there a cabal of hidden masters orchestrating global events but that they are also extremely stupid and that you are capable of trivially seeing through their deceptions, but just because it would be nice if that were true does not make it true.
When you quack like a duck..
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Medvedev says Russia is fighting a sacred battle against Satan
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Friday cast Russia's war in Ukraine as a sacred conflict with Satan, warning that Moscow could send all its enemies to the eternal fires of Gehenna.
www.reuters.com
Dmitry Medvedev has today given a speech to mark the National Day of Unity. It ranks among the most insanely unhinged things I've ever, ever heard from a public figure.
"Russia's task is to stop the Supreme ruler of hell, whatever name he uses, Satan, Lucifer or Iblis"
Russia is fighting "crazy Nazi drug-addicts", and Westerners have "saliva dribbling down their chins from degeneracy".
Russia has the a ability to "send all our enemies to fiery Gehenna".
As well as several invocations of "holy war". You know, in case the extreme Christian-nationalist nature of the Russian governing party has slipped anyone by.
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...did something get in the vodka over there? I mean, seriously.Medvedev says Russia is fighting a sacred battle against Satan
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Friday cast Russia's war in Ukraine as a sacred conflict with Satan, warning that Moscow could send all its enemies to the eternal fires of Gehenna.
Dmitry Medvedev has today given a speech to mark the National Day of Unity. It ranks among the most insanely unhinged things I've ever, ever heard from a public figure.
"Russia's task is to stop the Supreme ruler of hell, whatever name he uses, Satan, Lucifer or Iblis"
Russia is fighting "crazy Nazi drug-addicts", and Westerners have "saliva dribbling down their chins from degeneracy".
Russia has the a ability to "send all our enemies to fiery Gehenna".
As well as several invocations of "holy war". You know, in case the extreme Christian-nationalist nature of the Russian governing party has slipped anyone by.
Saw an interesting video the other day, outlining the ideology of Putin.
It's on the long side. My summary is that the people whose ideology Putin listens to are a bunch of wackos. The video goes into detail in what ways they are wackos, though he never calls them that.
It's on the long side. My summary is that the people whose ideology Putin listens to are a bunch of wackos. The video goes into detail in what ways they are wackos, though he never calls them that.
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The neo-Nazi private mercenary Wagner Group is abandoning the secrecy it has operated under.
The Russian government directs Wagner mercenaries in a lot of its military conflicts: Ukraine, Sudan, Syria, Mali, Libya, Mozambique, and the Central African Republic. Until recently, however, they have publicly denied any involvement with the group, and sometimes even denied its existence. This means they could maintain plausible deniability.
That seems to have ended last week. Putin's close ally Yevgeny Prigozhin has now publicly admitted that he co-founded the group, after years of denial.
And now the PMC has opened a massive military tech centre in St. Petersburg.
www.theguardian.com
The Russian government evidently feels that they can publicly acknowledge the link now.
The Russian government directs Wagner mercenaries in a lot of its military conflicts: Ukraine, Sudan, Syria, Mali, Libya, Mozambique, and the Central African Republic. Until recently, however, they have publicly denied any involvement with the group, and sometimes even denied its existence. This means they could maintain plausible deniability.
That seems to have ended last week. Putin's close ally Yevgeny Prigozhin has now publicly admitted that he co-founded the group, after years of denial.
And now the PMC has opened a massive military tech centre in St. Petersburg.
Russia’s Wagner Group opens defence tech centre in St Petersburg
Opening is latest step for private militia’s owner Yevgeny Prigozhin in taking a more public role in shaping Russia’s defence policy
www.theguardian.com
The Russian government evidently feels that they can publicly acknowledge the link now.
All the fascists are saying the quiet part out loud now, and usually that's because they think they're winning.
I love how they tactfully describe Utkin as "linked to the far right."Russia’s Wagner Group opens defence tech centre in St Petersburg
Opening is latest step for private militia’s owner Yevgeny Prigozhin in taking a more public role in shaping Russia’s defence policy
The Russian government evidently feels that they can publicly acknowledge the link now.
In other news, I am "linked to" my legs.
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