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Dalisclock

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I would bet a tenner that is going to be a plot point in the next Modern Warfare.
I mean, wasn't that almost the plot of MW3? Russia invaded the US and then when that failed, invaded all of Europe at the same time on the way back, because Russia has literally infinite number of soldiers and supplies and even better is that Europe was taken completely by surprise because even if Russia invaded the US on the flimsily pretext, they'd surely never invade MUCH CLOSER Europe for the lulz, RIGHT?
 
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Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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I mean, wasn't that almost the plot of MW3? Russia invaded the US and then when that failed, invaded all of Europe at the same time on the way back, because Russia has literally infinite number of soldiers and supplies and even better is that Europe was taken completely by surprise because even if Russia invaded the US on the flimsily pretext, they'd surely never invade MUCH CLOSER Europe for the lulz, RIGHT?
I find it funny in the Modern Warfare series everyone forgotten Nukes are a thing, except the first game.
 

Terminal Blue

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But, the only way to deal with that threat is bull baiting Russia to push the button, as opposed to, say resolving issues diplomatically or economically by fostering economic interdependence through targeted investment and trade, much as the US has over the course of the last three decades with China.
Again, Russia was a US ally during the war on terror, which could very easily have blossomed into a functioning partnership based on a shared love of carrying out war crimes against random Muslims. Russia was a major trading partner of the US and much of its economy was reliant on energy exports to Europe. In fact, Russia has spent many, many years deliberately insulating its war economy from economic interdependence, which indicates that the current situation has been planned for a very long time. What you are describing isn't resolving issues diplomatically, it's appeasement. It's ignoring the wholesale abandonment of diplomatic convention in order to pursue territorial expansion through warfare based on the bizarre revanchist claims of 19th century monarchs.

"But Iraq!" "But Afghanistan!" I hear already. What about them? I protested those wars. What kind of a hypocrite would I be, and how liquid would any principles I might hold be if I abandoned those principles now because an even worse regime decided to take the fight to an even more cartoonishly evil group of largely imaginary people.

China's only #3 on the list of countries with the most nukes and a vastly bigger global strategic threat to the US than Russia ever has been or ever will be, yet the idea of a nuclear exchange with China is considered laughable simply on the premise China has no one to nuke but customers.
China is not a failed shell of a state ruled entirely by former members of its security services who operate like organized crime syndicates.

China does not fill its government with far-right nationalist lunatics who openly talk about using nukes in some ridiculous campaign to restore their nation to the glory it enjoyed in some feverishly imagined historical period in which most of the population were literally serfs.. at least not yet.

No, I'm saying whichever country eventually wins the proxy war, the losing power will ensure the victory is pyrrhic at best by inflicting maximal economic damage.
If the US itself is going to be enduring a significant proportion of that damage, what's the point?

How does anyone benefit from this? Other than the timeless, demonic spirit of pure evil that we can conveniently blame the cold war on..

In other words, denying Ukrainian natural resources to the victorious power
You mean the largely underdeveloped natural resources that everyone would have gotten anyway (had they ever been developed) because they would have been exported at low cost.

Again. There is just no benefit to this. It's not even attributable to a sunk cost fallacy because there was never any benefit to it. It's just manichean bullshit with elaborate global shadow governments fighting each other for no reason like the worst Deus Ex remake ever (yes, worse than invisible war), as opposed to the very obvious and well-evidenced fact that Russia wants Ukraine because it used to be part of the Russian empire and the Soviet Union, and a significant proportion of the government's power base consists of nationalists who feel nostalgic about those eras and think of these territories and the people who live there as rightfully belonging to Russia.

Which is troubling because it's also true of the Baltic states, Poland and Finland.

That's my point, realpolitik is fundamentally irrational, having no feasible answer to forever war and cyclical violence.
Neither of those things are required in order to be rational.

But what is required, and what you've failed to explain the absence of, is any kind of reason.

I'm sure you prefer to believe that, as opposed to economic and policy elites simply having shared values, interests, and investments upon which consensus can be built and consent manufactured, while simultaneously suffering from sociopathic myopia.
Where is the appeasement of those values? Where is the expectation of returns on those interests and investments?

Something something cold war something CIA something nazis..
 
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Silvanus

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Kherson City has been retaken by Ukraine. It was the only regional capital to be taken by Russia, meaning Russia no longer controls any of the capitals of the four oblasts it "annexed" in September.

Russian social media is characterising the retreat as chaotic and panicked. Not Western media-- Russian social media. Reports of wounded soldiers abandoned, soldiers drowning in the Dnipro as they attempt to leave.

One Russian soldier posted that those who try to rationalise the retreat can "fuck themselves", and says the command had told one unit to just don civilian clothes and escape any way they can.


Meanwhile, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov insisted today that all goes to plan.

What a shitshow.
 

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Meanwhile, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov insisted today that all goes to plan.

What a shitshow.
Maybe it was according to plan but the plan was just "Run away!"?

Maybe that's mean to Russia, but it's hard to argue sincerely that Russia isn't basically a glorified gas station with a nuclear arsenal that keeps pretending it's a superpower.

As far as I'm concerned, there's two great reason to ditch fossil fuels forever.

1. The Obvious Climate Crisis.

2. To let shitty Autocracies that survive off oil exports like Saudi Arabia and Russia fucking rot economically.

Also, isn't it about time for Russia to pretend they might Nuke Ukraine/Europe/USA/Zanzibarland because reasons again? It's been like 2 weeks since the last idle nuke threat, yes?
 
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Hawki

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As far as I'm concerned, there's two great reason to ditch fossil fuels forever.

1. The Obvious Climate Crisis.

2. To let shitty Autocracies that survive off oil exports like Saudi Arabia and Russia fucking rot economically.
You're definitely not wrong on point 1, and I mostly agree on point 2, but if Russia or Saudi Arabia collapsed today (oil revenue falling or otherwise), what happens then? Russia likely fragments along ethnic lines, with a massive nuclear arsenal up for grabs. Saudi Arabia, I can't say for sure, but I'd wager on seeing something like Islamic fundamentalism filling the gap of state power. I mean, ISIS came to prominence through a power vacuum in Iraq, imagine what happens in Saudi Arabia which has spent a good deal of time and money exporting terrorism, and has an appauling human rights record.

Don't know, smarter people than me have postulated, but I don't see things being pretty. Either we burn the planet, or countries that built their economies on oil burn instead. :(
 

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You're definitely not wrong on point 1, and I mostly agree on point 2, but if Russia or Saudi Arabia collapsed today (oil revenue falling or otherwise), what happens then? Russia likely fragments along ethnic lines, with a massive nuclear arsenal up for grabs. Saudi Arabia, I can't say for sure, but I'd wager on seeing something like Islamic fundamentalism filling the gap of state power. I mean, ISIS came to prominence through a power vacuum in Iraq, imagine what happens in Saudi Arabia which has spent a good deal of time and money exporting terrorism, and has an appauling human rights record.

Don't know, smarter people than me have postulated, but I don't see things being pretty. Either we burn the planet, or countries that built their economies on oil burn instead. :(
I know it's not as simple as just letting them die on the vine, as the Arab Spring taught us, or any other time a state has collapsed(The Holy Roman Empire being broken by Napoleon eventually lead to Imperial and later Nazi Germany arising, or the collapse of the Ottoman Empire leading to the messy ass middle east we have today). I just had to vent for a moment.

We're not gonna be rid of fossil fuels for at least a few decades even in the best case scenarios and both parties the in the US where I live have a fairly chummy relationship with the oil industry so it's not like there's much I could do regardless.
 
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Silvanus

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BBC's Jeremy Bowen's in Kherson. Attests that decomposing bodies have been in the streets for months until today.

 
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Silvanus

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Kirill Stremousov, who was installed by Russia as second-in-command in occupied Kherson, has died in a car crash while fleeing.

He was also a vocal anti-vaxxer, and previously became infamous for posting a video of himself swinging his own daughter around by the leg, happily claiming he could hear her "bones pop".

 
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CM156

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Kirill Stremousov, who was installed by Russia as second-in-command in occupied Kherson, has died in a car crash while fleeing.

He was also a vocal anti-vaxxer, and previously became infamous for posting a video of himself swinging his own daughter around by the leg, happily claiming he could hear her "bones pop".

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, tbh.
 

Silvanus

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Immediately have to wonder, car crash or "car crash".
Well, he'd apparently become quite critical of Russian military failures. And he fled (and died) just before Ukraine retook Kherson City. So if this was indeed an assassination, its more likely to be Russia... though honestly that's far from certain.

I thought this whole story most notable as an indication of the kind of people Russia is installing in the occupied territories it controls. Family-abusing thugs and conspiracy theorists.

---

You may have already read that Russia has been recruiting from prisons and penal institutions for the war effort. Convicts are offered a way out of prison, given minimal training, and then dispatched to fight in Ukraine to shore up the numbers.

Well, the neo-Nazi mercenary Wagner Group has posted a video of them executing one such recruit (who had surrendered to Ukraine, before then-- it appears-- returning to Russia in a prisoner exchange) with a sledgehammer.

Putin's close ally and co-founder of that neo-Nazi PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, openly supported the murder after it was reported, calling him a "traitor".


The fucking unadulterated barbarism is... it wears you down, tbh.