I love it but I don't want to play it again.

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Xprimentyl

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hanselthecaretaker

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Elden Ring actually.

While I didn't mind how much the barren landscapes broke up the Soulslike formula while playing, that might've been cuz I kept on waiting for things to get better soon... Now that I've seen everything it has to offer, I can't make myself go through all that padded and re-hashed content again... Even if they did apply new spins on the bosses we face a handful of times, very few of the dungeons are actually worth conquering.

I found myself missing the more grounded Dark Souls level design, where I had to carefully approach corners and look for shortcuts since there were so few bonfires around... Every inch of that world serves a purpose, while Elden Ring went full speed in the opposite direction. Most of the main bosses are also quite unbalanced unless you use spirit summons, but then it's waay to easy (I did beat everything solo, though, no worries :) )

So, this is the only FROM game that I refuse to work towards the platinum trophy for
Ironically it’s also the easiest, least grindy one to get. Especially if you already beat all the bosses.
 

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Ironically it’s also the easiest, least grindy one to get. Especially if you already beat all the bosses.
I was wondering why everyone was saying ER is the "easiest" Souls game, and I'm starting to understand it now. Checkpoints (sites of grace) are a lot more abundant, spirit summons make some fights a laugh, and the walk back to bosses is often abut a few steps. It is, by far, the most accessible game FROM has put out while still being demandingly difficult, i.e.: Margit may have taken me several tries, but none of those attempts required I grind through leagues of mobs to try again risking/wasting precious resources.

But it's also the most egregious insofar as AI reading your inputs. Hitting the heal button is basically hitting the "hit me" button. Invading NPC have so far proven the most difficult I've experienced in any Souls game.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I was wondering why everyone was saying ER is the "easiest" Souls game, and I'm starting to understand it now. Checkpoints (sites of grace) are a lot more abundant, spirit summons make some fights a laugh, and the walk back to bosses is often abut a few steps. It is, by far, the most accessible game FROM has put out while still being demandingly difficult, i.e.: Margit may have taken me several tries, but none of those attempts required I grind through leagues of mobs to try again risking/wasting precious resources.

But it's also the most egregious insofar as AI reading your inputs. Hitting the heal button is basically hitting the "hit me" button. Invading NPC have so far proven the most difficult I've experienced in any Souls game.
It gives you many more options for tailoring the difficulty for yourself without feeling like cheating.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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I was wondering why everyone was saying ER is the "easiest" Souls game, and I'm starting to understand it now. Checkpoints (sites of grace) are a lot more abundant, spirit summons make some fights a laugh, and the walk back to bosses is often abut a few steps. It is, by far, the most accessible game FROM has put out while still being demandingly difficult, i.e.: Margit may have taken me several tries, but none of those attempts required I grind through leagues of mobs to try again risking/wasting precious resources.

But it's also the most egregious insofar as AI reading your inputs. Hitting the heal button is basically hitting the "hit me" button. Invading NPC have so far proven the most difficult I've experienced in any Souls game.
Yeah basically there’s a direct correlation between exploration and the game hitting easy street (relatively speaking yet of course). Other Souls games and especially Sekiro’s Emma/Isshin fights IME had that annoying input reading/reacting instantly bs, but with how plentiful stamina is in ER it’s still usually easy to find openings to heal. Some bosses just do not belong in the arenas they’re stuck in though, like the Fallingstar beast in the tiny cave room. Thematically it makes sense but talk about disorienting with the way that fucker jumps around.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Honestly mimic tear and rivers of blood felt like cheating.
Yeah, but there are options besides something like that, there are plenty of ones powerful enough to feel like cheating, but there are others that help, but don't feel like it.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Yeah, but there are options besides something like that, there are plenty of ones powerful enough to feel like cheating, but there are others that help, but don't feel like it.
I mean that was one of my big issues with the game. Either you limited yourself in order to make the game challenging, or you went with what worked best for you and made it too easy.

I think it's all a bi-product of the base of ER's enemy design being flat out too difficult on their own. Like if you just gave the player typical Dark Souls weapons and spells, these bosses will fuck you six ways from sunday. At least the majority of people. There are always those in whom no challenge is too challenging, but we don't talk about them. They scare us.

I think ER would have been better served with a natural baseline difficulty 25% easier so that it opened up more doors for it to be approached like other FromSoft titles. In exchange you make the broken op shit also weaker so that they don't completely outclass everything. That's really the problem is the line of challenge is either way too far on the game's side or it's way to far on the players side. I think both sides should be brought closer to a middle and that would have really opened the game's options up
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I mean that was one of my big issues with the game. Either you limited yourself in order to make the game challenging, or you went with what worked best for you and made it too easy.

I think it's all a bi-product of the base of ER's enemy design being flat out too difficult on their own. Like if you just gave the player typical Dark Souls weapons and spells, these bosses will fuck you six ways from sunday. At least the majority of people. There are always those in whom no challenge is too challenging, but we don't talk about them. They scare us.

I think ER would have been better served with a natural baseline difficulty 25% easier so that it opened up more doors for it to be approached like other FromSoft titles. In exchange you make the broken op shit also weaker so that they don't completely outclass everything. That's really the problem is the line of challenge is either way too far on the game's side or it's way to far on the players side. I think both sides should be brought closer to a middle and that would have really opened the game's options up
I mean haven't the souls games always been like that? I mean in each game you could call in a friend and make even the toughest fight trivial, aside from that stupid tree. That's not even mentioning how abused the magic systems could usually be.
 

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I mean that was one of my big issues with the game. Either you limited yourself in order to make the game challenging, or you went with what worked best for you and made it too easy.

I think it's all a bi-product of the base of ER's enemy design being flat out too difficult on their own. Like if you just gave the player typical Dark Souls weapons and spells, these bosses will fuck you six ways from sunday. At least the majority of people. There are always those in whom no challenge is too challenging, but we don't talk about them. They scare us.

I think ER would have been better served with a natural baseline difficulty 25% easier so that it opened up more doors for it to be approached like other FromSoft titles. In exchange you make the broken op shit also weaker so that they don't completely outclass everything. That's really the problem is the line of challenge is either way too far on the game's side or it's way to far on the players side. I think both sides should be brought closer to a middle and that would have really opened the game's options up
I agree. It seems like they went so far in on making it difficult that they realized they needed to step back and make it possible, and in turn, made some of it trivial. I'll always come back to Artorias: a fight that is difficult, but manageable. Elden Ring's bosses seem impossible unless throwing everything but the kitchen sink at them, and From gave us the kitchen sink. With no shame, I summon relentlessly. I know I've not the time nor patience to be really "gud" at this game.
 
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CriticalGaming

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I mean haven't the souls games always been like that? I mean in each game you could call in a friend and make even the toughest fight trivial, aside from that stupid tree. That's not even mentioning how abused the magic systems could usually be.
Kind of. There have always been cheesy ways to do things. But the big difference is the difficulty should you just play the game in whatever way wasn't drastically skewed against you should you not choose the cream cheese tactic.

I think the the key problem with ER enemies is the AI is far too argressive. There is often very little room or safety to ever hit the enemies in counter attack because their recoveries are far too short. This isn't even just bosses, Crimson Knights have this issue, Crucible Knights, all sorts of normal trash enemies have this same issue.

The key component to a good Souls combat system is being able to capitalize on punish windows. Even in Bloodborne where the game itself is a much faster than other souls games, there are still moments of pause with every enemy. When they attack, it's fast and can chain for 8+ swings. But when it's over there is quite a bit of time where they are open for punishment.

That doesn't even include parries. IIRC there isn't a single enemy in any Souls game that can be parried that does get opened for punishment right after a successful parry. However in ER you have to parry Melenia 3 times in a row in order to open her for a viseral attack. If you miss one of those parries the counter resets. That is a level of skill demand that simply is not reasonable, however it is balanced by the available tools where if you want you can kill Melenia in a few seconds and move on with your life.

So ultimately it's kind of a wash, but in my opinion it makes for a much worse game over all.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Honestly mimic tear and rivers of blood felt like cheating.

Some games have difficulty select. ER has summons, mimic, RoB, etc. The official Future Press guide even says as much that anything in the game is designed as fair game, so it’s basically the big question of what does the player want to use? You can make it difficult as fuck by eliminating the “easy” stuff and going in like a straight up Souls game melee build, middle ground by using some type of non-mimic/Tiche spirit summon, casting, affinities other than bleed, etc. Or just go to the Cheesecake Factory.

What makes it off-putting is like you said, weighing it against the tighter legacy of past FROM games, because they straddled a pretty fine line in terms of balance. Especially Sekiro and to some extent Bloodborne. But ER is as wide as a fucking valley, taking pieces of all the past games, plus its own new shit.

I hope their next game scales it back more to Bloodborne levels and tries something new with the combat system. Hell even a new game engine with more dynamic aspects. But I’m still content they at least took a stab at something massive, because I still haven’t gotten bored after like, 270 hours or something. I’ve never really bothered experimenting with builds in their past games but it’s so much easier to go wild with that shit here. That’s what keeps bringing me back, but like any open world game (besides maybe RDR2 for shits and giggles on PC) the idea of starting it over from scratch is personally pretty soul crushing, no pun.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I think the the key problem with ER enemies is the AI is far too argressive. There is often very little room or safety to ever hit the enemies in counter attack because their recoveries are far too short. This isn't even just bosses, Crimson Knights have this issue, Crucible Knights, all sorts of normal trash enemies have this same issue.
I don't really recall that, even with the crucible knights, sure they were aggressive but there were always openings or ways you could create them. Maybe it made things harder for casters, but I didn't play a caster, I did a str axe wielder build for most of the game.
 
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Elden Ring might be the first game I personally consider to be TOO big. Kudos for the effort, but Miyazaki really blew his load on this one. And congrats on soloing everything; you're a better person than me for that one. Me and my spirit summons roll deep whenever possible, and I don't care to try it any other way; I gots nuttin' to prove to nobody!
You can absolutely achieve that too, but the thing is - it's not really worth it this time around. IMO, using spirit summons is the intended way to play the game. This is not-so-subtly confirmed by how most bosses have unlimited stamina bars and random recovery frames (Malenia most of all, but others also reshuffle their move sets with a spasm-inducing tempo...)

Eden Ring was the game that FROM spent full 3 years producing, which is something they haven't done at all in the past (I believe). Yet, I'd be much more content if they focused on level geometry and on crafting those memorable "gotcha" moments we expect from these games (there's a reason why so many gamers still remember meeting Anor Londo's duo of archers for the first time). Stormveil Castle and Leyndell are clear high points in ER, but everything else is pretty meh...
 
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Drathnoxis

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Really? It scared me more than 1 & 3, easily-- the section in the prison had me feeling claustrophobic and as if I had to get the hell out of there. It might have helped that it was the first one I played.
The prison section in SH2 was definitely the high point. You just keep going down until it feels like you are trapped kilometers under the earth. It was an excellently oppressive atmosphere. SH2 was also the first (and only) SH I've played, I've watched an LP of most of them by now, though.
 

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Of the games on the Capcom Beat'Em Up Bundle: King of Dragons and Warriors of Fate are the least I go back to playing. KoD is too simplified of a brawler and is only fun with friends/other people. WoF is an arcade game that goes on for way longer than it should, and is not much better than Final Fight or Captain Commando. Other than adding horse riding, there is not much new to the Final Fight formula around that time.

Double Dragon Neon I don't find myself going back playing much at all, due to playing so much of it back in the early to mid 2010s. After a while you notice odd design flaws and the grindy nature of the game. The music kicks ass and there are unique boss battles different from the usual DD game. Yet, for whenever the next Double Dragon game that comes out, other than River City Girls 2, I want it to be its own thing and not just Neon again or a throwback to the NES games. After beating Neon again on Normal via Switch, I decided not to bother with the harder modes.
 
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Dalisclock

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I'm not sure "love" is the word I'd use but Dragon Age 2. I enjoyed it a lot, more than I thought I would, but after finishing I don't feel like there much reason to replay it since it mostly sets up for DAI and there's very little that can change in a 2nd playthrough. Also it's very padded through frequent combat encounters that feel like they go on too long.

Also having finished it finally, Tails of Iron is really good in a lot of ways and a worthy Souls-like.....and feels like it's about 2 hours too long(which is kinda sad because I finished it in 13 hours). 2 hours doing mandatory boss fights and side quests because the game throws up a couple cash gates. And it kills my urge to ever want to play it despite all the other things I really enjoy about it(like the fact it's almost complete skill gated).
 
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Also having finished it finally, Tails of Iron, is really good in a lot of ways and a worthy Souls-like.....and feels like it's like 2 hours too long(which is kinda sad because I finished it in 13 hours). 2 hours doing mandatory boss fights and side quests because the game throws up a couple cash gates. And it kills my urge to ever want to play it despite all the other things I really enjoy about it(like the fact it's almost complete skill gated).
Honestly, if it wasn't for the narrator I probably would've dropped the game a long time ago. But it entertained me just enough to push on through. my headcanon is that this is what Geralt used to read to Ciri when she was a child. I agree on the side quests. They really should've just slapped "required" on them. Tracking through the same layout, because for some reason two quests in the same area can't be triggered at the same time, was seriously annoying.
 

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Honestly, if it wasn't for the narrator I probably would've dropped the game a long time ago. But it entertained me just enough to push on through. my headcanon is that this is what Geralt used to read to Ciri when she was a child. I agree on the side quests. They really should've just slapped "required" on them. Tracking through the same layout, because for some reason two quests in the same area can't be triggered at the same time, was seriously annoying.
Yeah, Doug Cockle doing his thing and seemingly have a lot of fun with it helped a lot.