Ukraine

[thebobmaster]

Russian missile strike on apartment building in Dnipro kills 40 people, Ukraine officials say | CNN

The death toll from a Russian missile strike on an apartment block in Dnipro rose to 40, Ukrainian officials said on Monday, after missiles and explosions were heard across the country.

www.cnn.com

 

[Gergar12]

UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

Rishi Sunak confirms the tanks will be provided during a call with President Zelensky.

www.bbc.com

You lucky people in the UK get to see your tanks make history by poping Russia T-90Ms. Joe Biden meanwhile won't even send M1A1 Abrams let alone M1A2Cs.

 

[Dalisclock]

UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

Rishi Sunak confirms the tanks will be provided during a call with President Zelensky.

www.bbc.com

You lucky people in the UK get to see your tanks make history by poping Russia T-90Ms. Joe Biden meanwhile won't even send M1A1 Abrams let alone M1A2Cs.

Isn't part of the issue because Abrams run on Jet Fuel and not diesel, complicating logistics? God knows the poor Ukrainian Logistics officers are probably on suicide watch as it is with all the new shit getting donated.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Isn't part of the issue because Abrams run on Jet Fuel and not diesel, complicating logistics? God knows the poor Ukrainian Logistics officers are probably on suicide watch as it is with all the new shit getting donated.

I think they updated the Abrams to fix that issue.

 

[Dalisclock]

I think they updated the Abrams to fix that issue.

You're right. They use a multi-fuel engine now that can use diesel(among other things).

 

[Gordon_4]

UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

Rishi Sunak confirms the tanks will be provided during a call with President Zelensky.

www.bbc.com

You lucky people in the UK get to see your tanks make history by poping Russia T-90Ms. Joe Biden meanwhile won't even send M1A1 Abrams let alone M1A2Cs.

Given the current state of things, I am doubtful that many ordinary British people are looking at this and feeling lucky. And if they are, it’s not for the same reason you’re outlining.

 

[Ag3ma]

Given the current state of things, I am doubtful that many ordinary British people are looking at this and feeling lucky. And if they are, it’s not for the same reason you’re outlining.

Well, someone has to use the Challenger 2: compared to the M1A1 and Leopard 2 its international sales have been deeply underwhelming.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Yep. The recruitment effort has included violent criminals such as murderers and rapists, brought into the ranks of a PMC with a severe neo-fascist streak and zero real oversight. Hence why Prigozhin's latest claim-- that only Wagner personnel are involved in the battle for Soledar, no regular Russian military personnel-- is so disturbing.

Like Tornado battalion, then.

 

[Silvanus]

Like Tornado battalion, then.

A bit like that, except well over 50 times the size.

 

[Gergar12]

Given the current state of things, I am doubtful that many ordinary British people are looking at this and feeling lucky. And if they are, it’s not for the same reason you’re outlining.

One of the best things Trump did was allow the export of American petroleum products to other countries, but I wish it were more targeted at our allies instead. If we had hoarded all of the energy resources and nationalized them, then preceded to keep them for ourselves I would argue it would be worst than not signing the Paris Climate accords in the short term. We would be warm while many countries get riots, but that didn't stop OPEC from price gouging.

Again If I were the US I would let Venezuela sell its oil.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

 

[Hawki]

UK to send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine, Rishi Sunak confirms

Rishi Sunak confirms the tanks will be provided during a call with President Zelensky.

www.bbc.com

You lucky people in the UK get to see your tanks make history by poping Russia T-90Ms. Joe Biden meanwhile won't even send M1A1 Abrams let alone M1A2Cs.

Not sure many people in the UK are feeling lucky right now, but sure.

"We've comitted economic self-sabotage, our government is a mess, countless people are living below the poverty line, the country's gripped by a culture war, we've lost our longest reigning monarch and the Windsors are tearing themselves apart, but by God can we sell some tanks!"

Still, least this is going to Ukraine rather than Saudi Arabia, so there's that.

 

[Silvanus]

"We've comitted economic self-sabotage, our government is a mess, countless people are living below the poverty line, the country's gripped by a culture war, we've lost our longest reigning monarch and the Windsors are tearing themselves apart, but by God can we sell some tanks!"

We're the poster child for managed decline.

 

[Ag3ma]

"We've comitted economic self-sabotage, our government is a mess, countless people are living below the poverty line, the country's gripped by a culture war, we've lost our longest reigning monarch and the Windsors are tearing themselves apart, but by God can we sell some tanks!"

Except I'm not sure they're being sold, they're being donated. Thus outside Oman, the only way the Challenger II is getting exported is by giving them away.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Well, any tank is better than no tank, I suppose

 

[Ag3ma]

Well, any tank is better than no tank, I suppose

To be fair, the Challenger 2 is definitely a good tank, if we mean reliable, tough and good at killing things - it is thoroughly battle-tested (if against markedly inferior opponents). However, there are a lot of considerations that go into a tank purchase. The Challenger 2 should be similar to the M1A1 in performance, but a major issue with the Challenger 2 is that it uses a different gun, so it requires different ammo from... basically the rest of NATO. That's a substantial negative.

The Leopard 2 is relatively untried in battle - reputedly the Turks lost quite a few to ISIS. However, it has consistently performed well in trials and is likely to be popular because it is used already by quite a lot of countries, relatively cheap, and I think quite adaptable to readily meet each military's specifications. The M1A1 and Challenger 2 are supposed to be better protected and more accurate, but not by a margin that significantly matters compared to the Leopard 2's non-combat advantages.

And in the end, modest differences in tank quality mean little relative to the quality of the crew and tactical use.

 

[Dalisclock]

Well, any tank is better than no tank, I suppose

Tanks a lot, UK.

Stop throwing things at me!

 

[Dalisclock]

Pentagon Says Russia Will Soon Be Forced to Use Old, 'Degraded' Ammo In Ukraine

Properly stored ammunition can last a lifetime but Russia has a bad track record of improper storage that leads to massive explosions and death.

www.vice.com

Take this as you will but considering Russia has been reported as buying ammo from North Korea of all places, the idea of them burning through their ammo stocks to the point they're willing to pull the deep storage stuff seems at least somewhat plausible.

And I don't think we need to go over the fact Russia kinda sucks at the maintenance part of the equation on a lot of their stuff. So look forward to more Russian ammo depots spontaneously combusting in the new year, I guess.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Pentagon Says Russia Will Soon Be Forced to Use Old, 'Degraded' Ammo In Ukraine

Properly stored ammunition can last a lifetime but Russia has a bad track record of improper storage that leads to massive explosions and death.

www.vice.com

Take this as you will but considering Russia has been reported as buying ammo from North Korea of all places, the idea of them burning through their ammo stocks to the point they're willing to pull the deep storage stuff seems at least somewhat plausible.

And I don't think we need to go over the fact Russia kinda sucks at the maintenance part of the equation on a lot of their stuff. So look forward to more Russian ammo depots spontaneously combusting in the new year, I guess.

I've heard something that Russia will never run out of ammo, they just have too much of it. The problem is they will always be on short supplies and be forced to use less of it to maintain a consistent firing power.

To put it simply, they can still fire at the enemy position but no longer 200 missiles a day, instead only being able to fire 50.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I've heard something that Russia will never run out of ammo, they just have too much of it. The problem is they will always be on short supplies and be forced to use less of it to maintain a consistent firing power.

To put it simply, they can still fire at the enemy position but no longer 200 missiles a day, instead only being able to fire 50.

Also matters little how much supplies you've got, if they are at the supply depot and you don't have the logistics to get them where needed. And in Russia's case, if you can't trust the lists of how much supplies there are.

 

[Ag3ma]

To put it simply, they can still fire at the enemy position but no longer 200 missiles a day, instead only being able to fire 50.

Sure, but this means a decrease in firepower. This may be particularly critical for intense, protracted combat, because they potentially need to stockpile for heavy action, so anywhere that doesn't have sufficient reserves will have degraded combat effectiveness. They mostly seem to be wasting missiles on cities, for large amounts of human suffering and low military effectiveness.

If they're also ending up using old and degraded ammunition - potentially badly stored as well - chances are a significant chunk of that ammo won't work. One in ten artillery shells not exploding is a pretty dramatic drop in combat effectiveness (and a nightmare for post-war clear-up). If it explodes in the wrong conditions - storage or in the gun, even worse.