Your video game hot take(s) thread

[I can't enter my old name]

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I don't care about what Gordon Freeman has to say, because the story is not about things happening and how it relates to Gordon Freeman. You don't roleplay as Gordon, you are Gordon, more specifically a meat puppet conduit where you, an extra-dimensional being, can exist and interact within the world. So Gordon is an aspect of you with a different name.

Once you give Gordon a voice and his own character and being, now you have to ask questions like, why is Gordon Freeman not a quivering mess on the floor after meeting a Godlike entity that can control time and space, and then finds himself 20 years in the future in a foreign country? You wouldn't be questioning reality because of the knowledge you possess, but Gordon would be.

So is it "lazy writing" to just leave the main character underdeveloped? Sure Half Life would make for a lousy book or movie, but it ain't either of them. Sometimes a game is a game about shooting aliens and the friends you meet along the way, and that's all you need.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Sometimes a game is a game about shooting aliens and the friends you meet along the way, and that's all you need.

Don't mind me, I'm just stealing this for later.

 

[meiam]

It's not complicated:

well written protagonist > silent protagonist > badly written protagonist.

Considering the average video game writer couldn't write a goo protagonist if their life depended on it, it's fine if they coward out and just make them silent.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It's not complicated:

well written protagonist > silent protagonist > badly written protagonist.

Considering the average video game writer couldn't write a goo protagonist if their life depended on it, it's fine if they coward out and just make them silent.

Goo protagonist must be what you get when none of the above applies.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Goo protagonist must be what you get when none of the above applies.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

We actually discussed this a while back when talking about the game Eastward. Just because a protagonist is silent, that doesn't mean they have no character. Mario is pointed to as supposedly the quintessential silent protagonist but he actually does have a defined character because of his actions and how he acts. Compare that to a protagonist in something like a Pokemon game and the difference is obvious.

 

[BrawlMan]

We actually discussed this a while back when talking about the game Eastward. Just because a protagonist is silent, that doesn't mean they have no character.

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Mario is pointed to as supposedly the quintessential silent protagonist but he actually does have a defined character because of his actions and how he acts. Compare that to a protagonist in something like a Pokemon game and the difference is obvious.

The fact that Yahtzee still tries to push this about Mario, shows how little he actually knows about the character or is (unintentionally) trying to keep the support of Nintendo haters/non Mario fans.

 

[meiam]

We actually discussed this a while back when talking about the game Eastward. Just because a protagonist is silent, that doesn't mean they have no character. Mario is pointed to as supposedly the quintessential silent protagonist but he actually does have a defined character because of his actions and how he acts. Compare that to a protagonist in something like a Pokemon game and the difference is obvious.

The classic example is Samus in metroid, and then they made metroid other M and definetly showed that they didn't understand that, oops.

 

[Dalisclock]

The classic example is Samus in metroid, and then they made metroid other M and definetly showed that they didn't understand that, oops.

On the inverse, playing Zelda: Age of Calamity, it felt like Link really should have spoke a little bit, because having a number of cutscenes with a number of characters talking to each other and Link just standing there silent felt really wierd.

I know it's a spin-off game but still. Normally Zelda gets away with Link being silent because he's maybe talking to one character at a time and you can just kind of have them filling in all the narrative weight, or even in BOTW cutscenes where Zelda is normally doing all the talking, but AoC messed up that dynamic a bit.

 

[Absent]

I actually prefer silent player characters. Even if they don't resemble me, they are still more me without a voice or, to be more accurate, without a tone. Without a speaking style. Without expressed micro reactions. More than the body, the voice defines a personality and, even if the text is neutral (which itself isn't neutral), the delivery shows judgements. Voice is the main differentiator between "1st person" and "3rd person", narratively. And I prefer my games to be 1st person (again, narratively, nothing to do with camera placement).

With very few exceptions. Cate Archer, the first deus ex Denton, the prince from Sands of Time... There's been standout characters and stories that were worth pushing the player on a spectator seat. Also genres, like comedic games (à la Citizen Kabuto) or evil simulators (sometimes easier to distancise yourself when you're watching a mafia movie and go "of course that jerk would prioritize this"). But generally speaking, I don't relate silent player characters to laziness or technical constraints.

But also I'm the kind of person who thinks there should be more black-and-white modern movies (just like art photography still uses black-and-white s lot, and for the same reasons).

 

[Absent]

I also realise that I appreciate sobriety in games but also that this may not be the word I seek. Uh. Sobriété. Restraint, soberness ?

This is not a stance about how drunk the characters or developpers should be. What I mean is that I like stuff stay a bit boringly grounded or minimalistic at times. To be more "The Terminator" (a "Duel"-like chase with a human truck) than "T2: Judgement Day". I love this sequel, but maybe I appreciate even more the original tight little thriller. Sequels tend to expand a lot, and dilute their matter and its impact. Again, like the Alien franchise starts adding sentient AI, telepathy, DNA memory (or, if you broaden it, other franchise monsters), losing the force of its origins.

We're talking games here. I really liked The Escapists. It was a nifty little "Escape from Alcatraz" simulation, stressfull and annoying and frustrating but the way prison life has to be : the annoying chores were a good hindrance to your schedule, and you had to plan the escape in the cracks of these everyday activities. But the sequel expands with silly customizations and items, scifi stuff, etc. It becomes a whole other wonky universe, which certainly has its public and value (it's a more comedic take?), but I saw it as a "more" that killed the pragmatic tone of the first. I haven't bought the Rimworld DLCs either, because they expand its scifi world to too much fantasy and intrusive aspects (I didn't really want magical telepathic cults in my colony). I haven't bought the DLCs of Surviving Mars either, as I was interested in how a Mars colony would work, and not the star wars fantasy of generic dome city on green terraformed planets. I find the base subject matter more interesting than their everything goes appendices. I loved Jurassic Park Operation Genesis, but I have little interest in the recent Jurassic World Evolution games and their imaginary dinosaurs fabrication labs, which defeat the paleontological interest of Jurassic Park by making it an Impossible Creatures themed park.

I also like the original Far Cry and Assassin Creed a lot. They are derided as empty tech demos, but I find their sequels too bloated (that being said, I also like the fact tat Far Cry's sequels are devoid of mutant monsters - Far Cry's selling point was its open landscaped allowing for various sneaky approaches of the enemy, and the mutant monsters' super senses defeated this to some extent in the second half of the game). So it's not just the theme and universes, that I like to be well defined, but also the gameplay. In that sense, I understand why the fans of Mafia 1 and 2 were disappointed by 3.

And I'm thinking about that, because I follow the release of KSP2. It will eventually include interstellar travel, which gets a bit too scifi for me (what, wormholes? llightspeed travels with no time distorsion? even faster travels to bridge thousands lightyears distant systems?), and the color customizations themselves detract from the (admittedly alien and crazy) nasa transposition feel by going straight to comics flying saucer colors.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is my videogame hot take of the day : fun is awful and should be forbidden.

 

[BrawlMan]

I also like the original Far Cry and Assassin Creed a lot. They are derided as empty tech demos, but I find their sequels too bloated (that being said, I also like the fact tat Far Cry's sequels are devoid of mutant monsters - Far Cry's selling point was its open landscaped allowing for various sneaky approaches of the enemy, and the mutant monsters' super senses defeated this to some extent in the second half of the game). So it's not just the theme and universes, that I like to be well defined, but also the gameplay. In that sense, I understand why the fans of Mafia 1 and 2 were disappointed by 3.

Technically FC1 was a tech demo, but I would never call it empty like are so called "genius critics and smart-ass GAMERZ". I still prefer FC: Instincts over the original though. Most of Crytek's games are tech demos and they are not ashamed to admit it. Crysis was made to show powerful CPUs could get and with realistic lightning without short cuts. I don't like the last 2/3 of the original, but they definitely left a mark. I mentioned this about 70 something pages ago, but I prefer Crysis 2 & 3 over the original, because of either better enemy, level design (Crysis 3 mainly), and more polish. Ryse was literally a tech demo brawler for the XONE.

I realized a few weeks ago that Hi-Fi Rush is literally another better version of DmC (2013). A rag tag group of mostly young people taking down an evil corporation, with a protagonist that is the not the smartest, has a punk-fight-the-power-attitude, and has environments that constantly shift around you. Color coded enemies, but way less obnoxious. There's even cat-rat panther type enemies that spin dash! Chai even has Nero's grapple or Donte's chain, but obviously Chai's more so takes from the latter.

 

[BrawlMan]

Modern racing games sucks.

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[Gordon_4]

I actually prefer silent player characters. Even if they don't resemble me, they are still more me without a voice or, to be more accurate, without a tone. Without a speaking style. Without expressed micro reactions. More than the body, the voice defines a personality and, even if the text is neutral (which itself isn't neutral), the delivery shows judgements. Voice is the main differentiator between "1st person" and "3rd person", narratively. And I prefer my games to be 1st person (again, narratively, nothing to do with camera placement).

With very few exceptions. Cate Archer, the first deus ex Denton, the prince from Sands of Time... There's been standout characters and stories that were worth pushing the player on a spectator seat. Also genres, like comedic games (à la Citizen Kabuto) or evil simulators (sometimes easier to distancise yourself when you're watching a mafia movie and go "of course that jerk would prioritize this"). But generally speaking, I don't relate silent player characters to laziness or technical constraints.

But also I'm the kind of person who thinks there should be more black-and-white modern movies (just like art photography still uses black-and-white s lot, and for the same reasons).

My problem is that a protagonist who doesn’t talk sticks out as dead eyed and weird when everyone else is talking. Like the original DragonAge is fucking awful for this; the Warden stands there ramrod straight and stares at people all the time. It’s even worse when they’re covered in blood from the recent combat encounter. Jade Empire isn’t as bad but it’s old enough that the player models don’t have much in way of expression so that sort of helps.

Conversely Pokémon has had all its characters remain silent and I think that is a wise decision. Those of us who are fans of the anime can easily sub in the voice actor of our choice. And the more creative can just make up silly and exciting voices as they go.

 

[Dalisclock]

My problem is that a protagonist who doesn’t talk sticks out as dead eyed and weird when everyone else is talking. Like the original DragonAge is fucking awful for this; the Warden stands their ramrod straight and stares at people all the time. It’s even worse when they’re covered in blood from the recent combat encounter. Jade Empire isn’t as bad but it’s old enough that the player models don’t have much in way of expression so that sort of helps.

Conversely Pokémon has had all its characters remain silent and I think that is a wise decision. Those of us who are fans of the anime can easily sub in the voice actor of our choice. And the more creative can just make up silly and exciting voices as they go.

On one hand, the dialogue wheel in the later games has it's issues. OTOH, I really enjoy hearing Hawke and the Inquirer actually holding conversations with people instead of only hearing one side of the conversation in DAO. Especially the wierdness that there are a number of voices for the warden but they're just a few phrases (snarky, confindent, sexy, etc). There's like 6 different VA per race, per sex, and some of those VA are notable to boot, which makes it a shame there's like 5 lines for each of them.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

On one hand, the dialogue wheel in the later games has it's issues.

The Hungarian Phrasebook from Monty Python is more reliable than that fucking wheel.

 

[Absent]

My problem is that a protagonist who doesn’t talk sticks out as dead eyed and weird when everyone else is talking. Like the original DragonAge is fucking awful for this; the Warden stands their ramrod straight and stares at people all the time. It’s even worse when they’re covered in blood from the recent combat encounter. Jade Empire isn’t as bad but it’s old enough that the player models don’t have much in way of expression so that sort of helps.

Conversely Pokémon has had all its characters remain silent and I think that is a wise decision. Those of us who are fans of the anime can easily sub in the voice actor of our choice. And the more creative can just make up silly and exciting voices as they go.

Oh yes, there is an inescapable silliness in a silent protagonist in a dialogue heavy game. Gordon Freeman is inherently funny. It's a bit of a trade off.

It's also a reason why I like text based games (also for production matters, as it's easier to design and redesign and correct add substrat text than calling back the voice actors). And NPC voice actors with text-based Player Character is an excellent balance in my eyes (and ears). It makes the player characters talk with that voice-in-our-head (which exists nowhere else). Even more self-identifiable than ourselves.

 

[Gordon_4]

Oh yes, there is an inescapable silliness in a silent protagonist in a dialogue heavy game. Gordon Freeman is inherently funny. It's a bit of a trade off.

Half Life works, because I think there's a canon explanation - or at least widely accepted fan hypothesis - that Gordon had his neck and vocal chords damaged by a barnacle in HL1; its also not nearly as dialogue intensive as something like DragonAge or Mass Effect. And in the first bit before everything goes tits up, he's just not quite awake yet.

 

[Dalisclock]

Half Life works, because I think there's a canon explanation - or at least widely accepted fan hypothesis - that Gordon had his neck and vocal chords damaged by a barnacle in HL1; its also not nearly as dialogue intensive as something like DragonAge or Mass Effect. And in the first bit before everything goes tits up, he's just not quite awake yet.

Gordon doesn't bother me really. People telling him stuff kinda works considering he, like the player, doesn't really know what's going on most of the time. It's not like he could contribute much.

HL2 is much the same though a bit wierd when people start fawning over him later in the game

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

HL2 is much the same though a bit wierd when people start fawning over him later in the game

What if his name has been Gordon Cockburn?