Fox and Dominion settle for $788 million

Eacaraxe

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...That we know the WMD intelligence was a load of crap is overwhelmingly the work of post-invasion investigations. We can criticise the press for being excessively credulous, of course.
Really, now? These links are going to come up in my own response to you anyway, may as well get them out now.

UNMOVIC found no evidence of WMD's, nor attempt to produce or stockpile them, nor even capacity, during its 2002-3 inspections pursuant to UN Resolution 697.


Neither did the IAEA.


Not even the CIA -- you might know them as "the people who were there to fabricate the evidence if necessary" -- were even capable of finding any.


The "aluminum tube" and "yellowcake" stories were practically instantaneously discredited by actual weapons experts, in real time and publicly, long before March 2003. Hell, the CIA kept the yellowcake story from the IAEA to prevent them from debunking it, until it was leaked by somebody in the State Department.

There's some of the hard evidence. Then, of course, there's also this:


We were to buy the leader of a Ba'athist party who had been referred to by bin Laden as "new Hitler", had clandestine connections to and support for al-Qaeda, a Salafist organization? Bin Laden hated Hussein, and so did al-Qaeda: Ba'athism is a socialist, but more importantly secular, ideology; Salafism is a reactionary, fundamentalist theocratic, ideology. The two could not have been further apart, nor more diametrically opposed, and the idea of any form of alliance between the two is as laughable now as it was in 2002.

For shit's sakes, the entire reason Osama bin Laden masterminded 9/11 in the first place was because Saudi Arabia bribed the US into participating in the Gulf War, and the US never withdrew its forces.

No, they did not. If you applied a smidgeon of critical analysis to your own sources, you'd have noticed that. Which makes you as bad as them: you can't really condemn others when you can't be bothered doing better yourself because it suits your agenda.
So, how were Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei represented in Western media at the time, again?

Here, have a time capsule:


And if that's not too on the nose,

1682796343744.png

And as for the Egyptian IAEA Director-General at the time,


Once again, I'll make the point since you seem to have ignored that I said "editors, producers, and executives" as well. The press chose to ignore counter-evidence. The press chose to refuse equal coverage for and against the war. The press chose to deplatform and defame critics. The press chose to forsake impartiality and due diligence. All those are quite deliberate, editorial, choices made by the press and those of it.

Groupthink -- the comfortable blanket of delusion which "former" Iraq war hawks throw over their heads to deny culpability -- is neither mitigating nor exonerating. Lies are lies, whether they're lies by omission, lies by suppression, or -- such as the case here -- repeating known falsehoods.


Yes. I also understand that they don't negate a great number of valid criticisms made of Corbyn and allies. It was a complex shitshow all around of vicious factional infighting and incompetence. The aim of the Corbyn cult is part revisionism, to point fingers hard enough at the shitty conduct of the "Blairite" wing in the hope everyone forgets their own sins. And those who want to believe hard enough, like you, fall for it. Again, you are just doing what you criticise.
Oh, it's "both sides are bad" now that I'm calling you out on your ignorance of the political controversy over which you're calling me a "fantasist amateur"?

"Blairites said and did a bunch of despicable shit while Corbyn was party leader, tried to blame Corbyn for it, and got busted by Al Jazeera bringing receipts" is a quite strange definition of "complex shitshow".

After all, that's how easy it is. False confidence. Misplaced trust. Wanting to believe. Reporting before the facts are in (sometimes necessary, because things need to be reported before a whole picture can be known).
And to think, you're the one accusing me of projection.

I don't particularly esteem the media because I think they could do significantly better, but the excessive criticisms of fantasist amateurs are even worse.
I'll certainly agree there's one fantasist amateur in this thread.

Its just when it comes to politics, Democrats vs Republicans, I struggle to find anything the Democrats want to do that is wrong. Universal basic health care? Sure. LGBTQXYZ+ rights and medical privileges? Can do. Defund the police? Yes, Creve Coure Missouri police don't need a BearCat assault transport. Restructure and adapt police recruitment and training? Yes please, the Chesterfield valley in 2023 is not 2004 Al-Faluja, we don't need PTSD riddled Navy SEALS on patrol. Shore up Democracy and re-draw district maps to allow for a better representation of the population? Sounds like a plan. Reparations for centuries of racial and cultural harm to African Americans? If that's what they want, I'm all for it. Increase the tax on corporations and billionaires? Great! Fight climate change? About damn time. Medically safe abortion for women who chose to have it? Their body, their choice. Teach African history in school? Why not?
You mean "things Democrats say they want to do to keep people voting for them, but will do literally anything in their power to avoid doing those things, while actively campaigning against people who will", right? But it's not like Democrats weren't throwing the sum weight of their party and accumulated donors behind pro-life candidates against pro-choice primary candidates, right smack dab in the middle of uproar over Roe being overturned last year, or anything.

That is, when they aren't lining up around the block to vote for the Hyde Amendment, even with majorities and supermajorities, whilst whining about it in the news.
 
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Thaluikhain

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What rights don't trans people have...? I don't think there's any bill passed or currently being voted on that's actually limiting trans medical rights in any important manner.
...

You've spent years saying covid isn't important and measure to limit it don't work, but this is still by far the stupidest thing you've ever said.

I literally can't remember the last time anyone on this forum said something this stupid, though there was stuff on the old forum to challenge you for the title.
 

Phoenixmgs

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It doesn't matter what Don Lemon says about climate change, it matters what climate scientists say about climate change. And their opinion is that yes, climate change is horrible, its happening a lot faster than they predicted, and its causing weather to get more extreme.
Who gives a shit what some dipshit news anchor says? That's the difference between liberals and conservatives - liberals listen to experts. Conservatives listen to talking heads.

And seriously about the trans community? Seriously? Here, do a little reading and educate yourself before you embarrass yourself again: https://translegislation.com/
And if Republicans don't like it, if they think liberals are pushing too hard for the LGBTQXYZ+ community...well, they can get out. Don't like it, leave. Go to Russia - they LOVE anti-gay shit over there.
It wasn't what Don Lemon said, it's what the acting director of the National Hurricane Center at NOAA said... Also, if you want green energy that works, where's the push for nuclear?!?!

Again, show me just ONE bill for trans legislation that is just plain out of touch with science and awful for trans rights and I'll happily join the bandwagon. I haven't seen any yet, not that I look at them all obviously because once someone cries wolf so many times, it's hard to take them seriously the next time.


Your take is irrelevant and their clownery is irrelevant. A bad news channel is not a comedy channel. It's a bad news channel.
A news channel is an entertainment channel...

We're talking about what the press knew here, remember?

The fact you can't keep your minds on that simple point suggests to me you don't really have a point.
You do know the press can, I don't know, "investigate" things.

In June 1999, Ritter responded to an interviewer, saying: "When you ask the question, 'Does Iraq possess militarily viable biological or chemical weapons?' the answer is no! It is a resounding NO. Can Iraq produce today chemical weapons on a meaningful scale? No! Can Iraq produce biological weapons on a meaningful scale? No! Ballistic missiles? No! It is 'no' across the board. So from a qualitative standpoint, Iraq has been disarmed."

...

You've spent years saying covid isn't important and measure to limit it don't work, but this is still by far the stupidest thing you've ever said.

I literally can't remember the last time anyone on this forum said something this stupid, though there was stuff on the old forum to challenge you for the title.
Again, show me just ONE bill for trans legislation that is just plain out of touch with science and awful for trans rights and I'll happily join the bandwagon. I haven't seen any yet, not that I look at them all obviously because once someone cries wolf so many times, it's hard to take them seriously the next time.
 

Thaluikhain

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Literally everyone can see how this is gonna play out already? Right?
You mean how I can't be bothered spending the 2.5 minutes it'd take me to find lots of sources about laws against trans people because I know it won't do any good, but I'll feel a bit guilty about leaving it to someone else? And then someone else does and it does no good?
 
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Phoenixmgs

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You mean how I can't be bothered spending the 2.5 minutes it'd take me to find lots of sources about laws against trans people because I know it won't do any good, but I'll feel a bit guilty about leaving it to someone else? And then someone else does and it does no good?
NO, NO. JUST ONE FUCKING LAW (or bill currently in any legislation) that is 100% irredeemable and against all known science.
 

Silvanus

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NO, NO. JUST ONE FUCKING LAW (or bill currently in any legislation) that is 100% irredeemable and against all known science.
Oklahoma Senate bill 129 would make anyone who refers someone under the age of 26 for gender-affirming care guilty of a felony.

 

SilentPony

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Oklahoma Senate bill 129 would make anyone who refers someone under the age of 26 for gender-affirming care guilty of a felony.

Kentucky Senate Bill 150 seeks to ban gender-affirming healthcare for trans youth, requires doctors to detransition young trans people and prevents schools from discussing gender identity or sexual orientation with students of any age.
Missouri Senate Bill 1364 establishes the offense of engaging in an adult cabaret performance or organizing or authorizing the viewing of an adult cabaret performance and the offense of organizing or authorizing the viewing of a drag queen story hour. Not around children, just straight up.
 

Kwak

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100% irredeemable and against all known science.
Give your definition of those terms since you are setting them.
What does "irredeemble" look like?
What does "against all known science" look like to you in this context, given that much of the anti-trans legislation isn't being based on or referring to science anyway?
 
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SilentPony

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Give your definition of those terms since you are setting them.
What does "irredeemble" look like?
What does "against all known science" look like to you in this context, given that much of the anti-trans legislation isn't being based on or referring to science anyway?
Its their way of setting an impossible criteria. A bill will say something like "Only man, only women, no going across" and they'll be "Technically speaking no one has ever transitioned to having the opposite sex's reproductive system and production of that sex cell"
So its not anti-trans on some technicality that there are only two sex cell producing systems and no one has crossed over.
 

Kwak

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That is, when they aren't lining up around the block to vote for the Hyde Amendment, even with majorities and supermajorities, whilst whining about it in the news.
Huh?
This article complains they voted against it.
-
House Democrats voted this week to kill longstanding measures that prevent federal funding of elective abortions, and they did so with an appalling unanimity.


From 1976 to 2020, regardless of partisan control of Congress, every appropriations bill funding Medicaid included the Hyde amendment, which prohibits federal funding of abortions for enrollees except in rare circumstances. From 1973 to 2020, the Helms amendment — a similar prohibition on direct taxpayer funding of abortions in international-aid programs — was attached to every appropriations bill funding the State Department.

But this week, not a single House Democrat voted against either appropriations bill on the grounds that the legislation would force American taxpayers to fund the deliberate destruction of innocent human lives at home and abroad.

The House Democrats’ unanimous support for taxpayer funding of abortion is atrocious.
 
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Eacaraxe

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We're talking about what the press knew here, remember?

The fact you can't keep your minds on that simple point suggests to me you don't really have a point.
The press was able to attack and defame leakers, international oversight committee chairs, UN special mission directors, weapon experts, and IR/IPE scholars whilst simultaneously having no idea what those people were saying, being unable to understand or parse what those very people were saying in rebuttal, nor why they might be targets for attack by their own outlets?

Huh?
This article complains they voted against it.
It's the National Review. They'd complain if a Democrat farted loudly in the Capitol Rotunda and opine how the echo sounded vaguely reminiscent to the Soviet national anthem.

House Democrats voted this week to kill longstanding measures that prevent federal funding of elective abortions, and they did so with an appalling unanimity.
And yet, the Hyde Amendment reappeared in the final bill, for which 206 Democrats voted.


The House Democrats’ unanimous support for taxpayer funding of abortion is atrocious.
You have a very strange definition of unanimity.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Oklahoma Senate bill 129 would make anyone who refers someone under the age of 26 for gender-affirming care guilty of a felony.


I think that is part of something else because there's no reference to age at all in the text. I'd be against it based on how vague it seems to be (again, it feels like it's apart of something else) because it's too all-encompassing. Just based on reading, I don't actually think it's gonna do anything honestly because what health care providers are employed by the state anyway? Your doctor that refers you to another doctor that's a specialist in said treatments/surgeries aren't gonna be employed by the state. Even the public funds part of the bill seems very limiting as well and might not even apply state-assisted insurance (which I'm not even sure is technically a "public fund" by definition of the bill). But if it does include that, then I'd be against it.

Kentucky Senate Bill 150 seeks to ban gender-affirming healthcare for trans youth, requires doctors to detransition young trans people and prevents schools from discussing gender identity or sexual orientation with students of any age.
Missouri Senate Bill 1364 establishes the offense of engaging in an adult cabaret performance or organizing or authorizing the viewing of an adult cabaret performance and the offense of organizing or authorizing the viewing of a drag queen story hour. Not around children, just straight up.
You do realize that banning gender-affirming care for minors is par for the course in our peer countries right? Even the far more progressive peer countries. A minor can stay on whatever treatment they are on if the doctor finds it would cause harm if they are taken off of it. The teaching of stuff isn't really that big of a deal, it just comes off as stupid because kids already know this stuff, it's like trying to not expose kids to swear words, just give up on the fantasy of that happening. When I went to school, gender stuff wasn't taught but it's not like we didn't know this shit either. I recall people being up in arms just about sex being taught back then, this stuff always been an issue (dumb issue, but issue none the less).

A guy dressed like a woman reading a book isn't an "adult cabaret performance".


How? By hacking into the CIA, or by doing an exhaustive search of Iraq all by their own without Saddam Hussein noticing?
How do you think the press investigates other things they don't have access to? Do you think the press had to do their own lab testing on covid related things to report on it or did they ask people about it that did such lab testing? And I gave a source from 1999 saying Iraq had no weapons or ability to build said weapons.

Give your definition of those terms since you are setting them.
What does "irredeemble" look like?
What does "against all known science" look like to you in this context, given that much of the anti-trans legislation isn't being based on or referring to science anyway?
I guess completely unreasonable would be better term than irredeemable. You guys don't realize the science isn't close to settled on much of these things. Just because all you guys see in your echo chambers are the experts that say it's fine, doesn't mean it's fine. It's why pretty much all of our peer countries (more progressive ones at that) have bans or very strict limitations on gender-affirming care for minors. Regardless of what it is, you don't want to give kids anything that you're not certain is safe, and most of these treatments are uncertain with regards to safety.
 

Phoenixmgs

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So, ya'll all think climate change is unequivocally causing more storms and stronger storms?

Directly from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):
We conclude that the historical Atlantic hurricane data at this stage do not provide compelling evidence for a substantial greenhouse warming-induced century-scale increase in: frequency of tropical storms, hurricanes, or major hurricanes, or in the proportion of hurricanes that become major hurricanes.
 

SilentPony

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So, ya'll all think climate change is unequivocally causing more storms and stronger storms?

Directly from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):
We conclude that the historical Atlantic hurricane data at this stage do not provide compelling evidence for a substantial greenhouse warming-induced century-scale increase in: frequency of tropical storms, hurricanes, or major hurricanes, or in the proportion of hurricanes that become major hurricanes.
Im sorry, what were you lying?
 
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