Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[McElroy]

The core of the argument is simply that she wants to leave the house and he doesn't want her to.

It wasn't about taking the car? You think if Mrs. Crowder had immediately come up with taking an Uber, Steven would've complained about that too?

Also there is no way Steven doesn't fall back on some debate tactics when facing the slightest bit of resistance. He does so in the video, after all.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Add another one to the tally.

 

[Silvanus]

It's still the same fucking study. I provided the paper showing how they did basic math wrong.

It's not the same study. You cannot ask randomly generated numbers to self-evaluate. You're not going to get past the fact that the "same study" is literally impossible for randomly generated numbers.

And how many times are these "scientific consensus" wrong? A helluva fucking lot.

Lol OK.

 

[Ag3ma]

It wasn't about taking the car? You think if Mrs. Crowder had immediately come up with taking an Uber, Steven would've complained about that too?

Complicated, but probably yes.

The Uber is for some reason not an option. I watched an expanded version from the one posted in this thread. Earlier in that argument, Hilary says she can't take an Uber: we can only speculate why, but there's something else going on there such that the Uber is from her perspective either highly impractical or undesirable. (An obvious rationale is that she wants "space", as she herself says at some point in the argument. She doesn't have that "space" when stuck in a metal box with a stranger.)

In that earlier segment, before Uber, she first suggests someone can pick her up, asking Steven who he would like to pick her up. There's something going on here, too. I am not sure whether it is a genuine suggestion she's making, or a rhetorical one (there is no-one acceptable or practical, and they both know it). Crowder's response to her suggestion is to say "Is that a threat?"

That's an interesting response. Why does Crowder think it's a threat if someone gives his wife a lift? Why does a man allegedly worth $20 million and earning $80k a month not buy his wife her own car?

 

[Trunkage]

Because he can spin around some debate tactics to make most unprepared people if not unable to respond then bemused at least. I bet Steven has done it a million times before and she is sick of it.

That's what I mean when I say there is no communication. If Steven wasn't a narcissist, because honestly that's a pretty safe bet, these issues would be solvable in marriage counselling or couples therapy. But that guy will never admit he's wrong. He'll never... change his mind.

That's not debating. Eg. when I listen to Shapiro, I don't hear debating, or him trying to convince me. He just rambles in the hope that something sticks and, most importantly, stops the other person from talking

I.e. All this is just people trying to control other people's ability to speak. It is not, and never has been, about debating. It's about shutting people down

That's what Crowder does, including in this video

 

[Ag3ma]

That's not debating. Eg. when I listen to Shapiro, I don't hear debating, or him trying to convince me. He just rambles in the hope that something sticks and, most importantly, stops the other person from talking

The problem with political activists is that they don't want to debate. They "debate" in the same way that dictators hold elections, with a strategy of "don't start any fight you aren't sure you'll win".

They use the format of a debate because it creates the illusion of intellectual accomplishment, just like dictators use elections to create the illusion of popular mandate. The whole process is rigged from the start - even if the sacrificial victim does manage to land enough punches, as producers they can simply edit it or not publish it.

 

[McElroy]

That's not debating.

Sure maybe the term is too formal. The point is that Steven is very experienced in speaking and arguing through his job as a commentator and talk show host. If he treats his wife's real or imagined concerns through that lens, then she probably cannot engage. That's a rough spot to be in, and if it keeps happening it'll stress the relationship. But they were together for a decade or so. Did things turn for the worse at some point or what; we can't know.

 

[Ag3ma]

If he treats his wife's real or imagined concerns through that lens, then she probably cannot engage.

Or, as we could put it, he's an emotionally abusive husband.

But they were together for a decade or so.

I get the feeling you are not particularly aware of how domestic abuse works. Abusive relationships can be very hard to leave and so last a long time.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

It's not the same study. You cannot ask randomly generated numbers to self-evaluate. You're not going to get past the fact that the "same study" is literally impossible for randomly generated numbers.



Lol OK.

That's literally the fucking point, you got the same results when obviously no human answered them...

You do realize the consensus starts off wrong for almost everything, right?

 

[Silvanus]

That's literally the fucking point, you got the same results when obviously no human answered them...

So "the fucking point" involves using a different procedure, then.

You do realize the consensus starts off wrong for almost everything, right?

I realise that you start off wrong for almost everything.

 

[McElroy]

Or, as we could put it, he's an emotionally abusive husband.

Well, I'd hold judgment. I see a gap in communication that imo could have a constructive solution, but of course we know that they separated soon after the video happened. There are times when dismissing someone's concerns is better than engaging with them, because you can focus on something else instead. If Steven Crowder was habitually dismissive towards his wife, then he was abusive. We don't know though.

I get the feeling you are not particularly aware of how domestic abuse works. Abusive relationships can be very hard to leave and so last a long time.

There is speculation and then there is stretching a five minute argument into ten years of abuse. That's pretty wild.

 

[Ag3ma]

Well, I'd hold judgment.

I don't think you quite get me. You hypothesised that Crowder treats his wife like he treats his debate podcasts. I'm saying that if he does that, you are effectively hypothesising that he is emotionally abusive to his wife.

There is speculation and then there is stretching a five minute argument into ten years of abuse. That's pretty wild.

Again, I think you don't get the point. You said that they had been together for a decade or so, as if that means something useful. I'm pointing out the length of their relationship tells us basically nothing about whether, or for how much of that period, it may have been abusive.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Man: Berates barefoot and pregnant wife that she's too uppity

People: "There could be nuance to this discourse."

 

[Eacaraxe]

Well, I'd hold judgment.

I sure as hell don't need to hold judgment; I recognized that tone of voice when he said "watch it". That's the "I'm pent up and I'm looking for an excuse to explode" tone of voice, which meshes perfectly well with the gaslighting and "no right answers" rhetorical questions in the video. That's exactly what happens when the tension-building phase of an abusive cycle transitions into acute explosion. Been around way too many abusive people, and people with rage issues (or whatever it's called in the latest DSM), to not spot that immediately.

 

[Ag3ma]

Also, just FYI:

Getting help for domestic violence and abuse

Find out about the signs of domestic violence and abuse, and where to get help. Domestic violence and abuse can happen against women and against men, and anyone can be an abuser.

www.nhs.uk

Signs of domestic violence and abuse

There are different kinds of abuse, but it's always about having power and control over you.
If you answer yes to any of the following questions, you might be in an abusive relationship or experiencing domestic abuse.

Emotional abuse
Does your partner or someone you live with ever:

• belittle you, or put you down?
• blame you for the abuse or arguments?
• deny that abuse is happening, or downplay it?
• isolate you from your family and friends?
• stop you going to college or work?
• make unreasonable demands for your attention?
• accuse you of flirting or having affairs?
• tell you what to wear, who to see, where to go, and what to think?
• control your money, or not give you enough to buy food or other essential things?
• monitor your social media profiles, share photos or videos of you without your consent or use GPS locators to know where you are?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

He wasn't "reliant" on a very specific timeframe for any important reason. When she didn't give a specific time, he immediately leapt into recrimination and hostility, without any simple inquiry; and his only given reason was that he /might/ want to do something.

He also said implied he had his time planned out.

We hear him throw out a bunch of unimportant recreational stuff that he /might/ want to do, without any pre-existing plans. If you want to speculate that he had solid plans that she would be messing up... then that's just speculation. And he could have just said that, rather than leaping straight into belittlement and aggression.

Some people can't do that all the time and do have to schedule that stuff.

To give an actual example I got to hilariously hear both sides of.

I was waiting for a bus and at the bus stop a 20 something year old girl was on about how awful her kids father was how he was refusing to have his son for the weekend and how he was being so mean stopping her going out.

I got onto the bus and there was a 20 something dude on there with his friend going. "I can't believe her, she called up yesterday and asked if I could have my son for the weekend as she wanted to go out with friends, I love the little guy and have happily had him every weekend for years, I told her this weekend I was catching up with you and everyone else and I had tickets to the match , I told her this months ago and I've got the tickets for the match she knew this one weekend she'd have to look after him and she's now taking it out on me because less than a week ago she decided this weekend she wanted to go out with her friends when she could have gone out with them any other weekend.".

Yeah, how dare she not schedule when she leaves the house hours in advance!!

Generally you try to plan schedules to work round one another. You don't just get upset you don't immediately get your own way all the time.

Jesus Christ, its as if you have no understanding of how normal, empathetic people might talk to eachother.

When harsh words are flying, reiterating that you love the other person is a common approach to try to build common ground and de-escalate. It's depressing and bizarre that you're seemingly unaware of that, and can apparently only conceive of it as a manipulation. That says a lot about how you view people.

It's also used by sociopaths because they play on peoples empathy.

Common ground would be understanding the issue and trying to come to an agreement.

Straightforward reductionism.

OK then what were the complaints against him that were so very serious from his colleagues again?

...for the bunch of recreational activities he pulled out of his ass specifically to stop her going anywhere

Except he was fine with her going and suggested she take an Uber not the car which seemingly caused her to become more upset because um....... I don't know she has a chronic phobia of Ubers?

Except you didn't say that. You rewrote it as an insane, unrecognisable scenario in which no word the wife says can be trusted, she's a "sociopath" who would only say she loved him to manipulate him-- and meanwhile he's essentially off the hook for the gross hostility and denigration.

Oh I'm not pretending it wasn't some level of self interest on both parts but I can see Crowder's justification in this one having far more validity than hers.

Both parts,

HIS

AND

HERS.

So yes I did fucking say it.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

She probably did when she wasn't pregnant because her doctor would have advised her against such a thing.

Conjecture we have no substantive evidence for either way. Also unless it's good at permeating things gloves would likely be sufficient to handle the stuff.

Do you really not see the difference between acknowledging pregnant women as human beings and making them do something that could be dangerous to them or the children they're carrying? Are you this obtuse?

No, But I'm not the one who employed the logic that it was good in Fallout Shelter you can have pregnant women work the nuclear power plant. The person I cited as some-one presenting what should be the modern standard of equality was lol.

Yeah, he's a moron. No one is denying that. It still doesn't make his ex a controlling sociopath.

Not controlling as such but trying to influence as that's where she jumped to.

What evidence? That she asked to use the car and said "I love you"? Any lawyer who used this argument in court would have been laughed out of the room by all involved.

The at she jumped to that when not getting her own way.

You might want to educate yourself on the nuances of an abuse victim's behavior.

Yes, there are no perfect victims. As Depp's trial showed and his imperfect moments were used against him quite publicly by Heard and her team.

Then why was he complaining about not going to see his parents or go to the gym?

Because he was going to do it, along with the other things.

If I were to be charitable, I would say the sociopath you lived with did quite a number on you because your inability to recognize actual controlling behavior is almost coemedic.

Didn't even live with him, just knew him long enough unfortunately. The snap to using emotionally weighted language to get what he wanted, the almost pretending to be exasperated and do the, I'm done, why should I bother and attempting to move the blame onto the person not giving him his own way.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Also, just FYI:

Getting help for domestic violence and abuse

Find out about the signs of domestic violence and abuse, and where to get help. Domestic violence and abuse can happen against women and against men, and anyone can be an abuser.

www.nhs.uk

Signs of domestic violence and abuse

There are different kinds of abuse, but it's always about having power and control over you.
If you answer yes to any of the following questions, you might be in an abusive relationship or experiencing domestic abuse.

Emotional abuse
Does your partner or someone you live with ever:

• belittle you, or put you down?
• blame you for the abuse or arguments?
• deny that abuse is happening, or downplay it?
• isolate you from your family and friends?
• stop you going to college or work?
• make unreasonable demands for your attention?
• accuse you of flirting or having affairs?
• tell you what to wear, who to see, where to go, and what to think?
• control your money, or not give you enough to buy food or other essential things?
• monitor your social media profiles, share photos or videos of you without your consent or use GPS locators to know where you are?

OK lets doll these out.

• belittle you, or put you down? - Crowder did this
• blame you for the abuse or arguments? - His wife did this in part because Crowder was presented as at fault for not letting her take the car.
• deny that abuse is happening, or downplay it? - Crowder did this but this is a hell of a Kafkatrap esc point to begin with so whomever cries abuse first if the other denies it then they're the abuser?
• isolate you from your family and friends? - Technically his wife was wanting the car and Crowder wanted to see friends so his wife on this one
• stop you going to college or work? - The gym maybe counts here so yeh his wife again
• make unreasonable demands for your attention? - I'm saying no-one on this one
• accuse you of flirting or having affairs? - Again no-one on this one
• tell you what to wear, who to see, where to go, and what to think? - None of them on this
• control your money, or not give you enough to buy food or other essential things? - neither of them on this
• monitor your social media profiles, share photos or videos of you without your consent or use GPS locators to know where you are? - No evidence for either of them on this

So points wise.

Crowder as the abuser: 2
His wife as the abuser: 3

I'd say close enough to call as them both being the issue.

 

[Trunkage]

OK lets doll these out.

• belittle you, or put you down? - Crowder did this
• blame you for the abuse or arguments? - His wife did this in part because Crowder was presented as at fault for not letting her take the car.
• deny that abuse is happening, or downplay it? - Crowder did this but this is a hell of a Kafkatrap esc point to begin with so whomever cries abuse first if the other denies it then they're the abuser?
• isolate you from your family and friends? - Technically his wife was wanting the car and Crowder wanted to see friends so his wife on this one
• stop you going to college or work? - The gym maybe counts here so yeh his wife again
• make unreasonable demands for your attention? - I'm saying no-one on this one
• accuse you of flirting or having affairs? - Again no-one on this one
• tell you what to wear, who to see, where to go, and what to think? - None of them on this
• control your money, or not give you enough to buy food or other essential things? - neither of them on this
• monitor your social media profiles, share photos or videos of you without your consent or use GPS locators to know where you are? - No evidence for either of them on this

So points wise.

Crowder as the abuser: 2
His wife as the abuser: 3

I'd say close enough to call as them both being the issue.

Oh, you're being sarcastic. I see

 

[Gordon_4]

Oh, you're being sarcastic. I see

No, he's not. That's why its infuriating to read.