School shooting at Texas Elementary school, several children reported dead

[Xprimentyl]

When the food runs out, the economy suffers too much, or due to a lack of water like in any other revolution.

That seems quite the non sequitur. My question was at what point are citizens able to invoke their "rights" and raise arms against the governing body? Who determines when we've reached that point, why we've reached that point, and who'd be the first to pull a trigger within their constitutional rights without consequence under the rule of law? The guy who rammed a U-Haul truck into a barricade at the White House a couple weeks ago, was he within his right to take violent action against a government he disagreed with? Or should he have perhaps stormed the gate with an AR-15 to be considered a patriot?

Guns are not anymore the romantic symbols of liberty and independence; they are, in fact, purely weapons, more and more often ill-used to kill innocent people, our children, our neighbors. They are symbols of hate and entitlement. They are symbols of self-righteous rage. We've had over 300 mass shootings just this year, and we're not even halfway through it yet. When "your right" becomes "everyone else's fatal problem," I think it's time to take a hard look at what exactly "your right" should be.

Lastly, it's ironic that some want to cite the 2nd amendment like it's somehow immutable. Grab a dictionary, and look up what an "amendment" is.

 

[Gergar12]

That seems quite the non sequitur. My question was at what point are citizens able to invoke their "rights" and raise arms against the governing body? Who determines when we've reached that point, why we've reached that point, and who'd be the first to pull a trigger within their constitutional rights without consequence under the rule of law? The guy who rammed a U-Haul truck into a barricade at the White House a couple weeks ago, was he within his right to take violent action against a government he disagreed with? Or should he have perhaps stormed the gate with an AR-15 to be considered a patriot?

Guns are not anymore the romantic symbols of liberty and independence; they are, in fact, purely weapons, more and more often ill-used to kill innocent people, our children, our neighbors. They are symbols of hate and entitlement. They are symbols of self-righteous rage. We've had over 300 mass shootings just this year, and we're not even halfway through it yet. When "your right" becomes "everyone else's fatal problem," I think it's time to take a hard look at what exactly "your right" should be.

Lastly, it's ironic that some want to cite the 2nd amendment like it's somehow immutable. Grab a dictionary, and look up what an "amendment" is.

Who ever starts the revolution and gets tens of millions of Americans to join them and near 100 million Americans to back them up via sympathetic activities. I personally don’t want the right to do it but the risk is worth it. As for mass shootings just do age to 21, limited background checks, and safe gun storage and keep your storage key on your person.

 

[Gergar12]

Right-- it was ended by a civil war in which the victor was the federal government. Not individual citizens with guns taking on the government. Its sort of exactly the opposite of the situation you're describing.



And random citizens with guns in their sheds are going to be able to pull that off, are they? Defeat the most powerful military on the planet by "disrupting their supply chain"?

Yes ambush the hypothetical convoys in a hypothetical tyrannical government.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Who ever starts the revolution and gets tens of millions of Americans to join them and near 100 million Americans to back them up via sympathetic activities. I personally don’t want the right to do it but the risk is worth it. As for mass shootings just do age to 21, limited background checks, and safe gun storage and keep your storage key on your person.

We're not even remotely close to there

 

[Thaluikhain]

If you could get tens of millions of Americans actively involved and 100 million odd Americans backing your plans for a significantly better America, you'd almost certainly not need to go to war.

Biden holds the record for the number of people he was able to get to merely vote for him, with some 81 million. Just to vote, not to fight, or anything, just to vote, and 81 million was unprecedented and got him in the White House.

 

[Silvanus]

Yes ambush the hypothetical convoys in a hypothetical tyrannical government.

I shouldn't really need to tell you how unrealistic you're being, acting as if the US military can be defeated and the government can be overthrown by a bunch of untrained randos with store-bought guns.

 

[Gergar12]

We're not even remotely close to there

If you could get tens of millions of Americans actively involved and 100 million odd Americans backing your plans for a significantly better America, you'd almost certainly not need to go to war.

Biden holds the record for the number of people he was able to get to merely vote for him, with some 81 million. Just to vote, not to fight, or anything, just to vote, and 81 million was unprecedented and got him in the White House.

Okay for reference I am not going to be the leader so stop using me as a reference point.

2. The GOP could do voter suppression.

3. If the votes are in heavily blue states it’s kind of null and void due to electoral college.

4. I would agree we are not there but we are heading in that direction.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I should like to take this opportunity to point out that the US is the one place people in the US are guaranteed to find on a map, the one soil where losing a war really matters to people there. Before it gets mentioned that the US has lost interest and wandered out of wars in places many of their citizens have barely heard of before the conflict.

EDIT: Ok, I don't so much mean you are going to be the leader, I just mean anyone with that sort of influence has massive political power, even with voter suppression and the like, which already is a factor.

 

[Gergar12]

I shouldn't really need to tell you how unrealistic you're being, acting as if the US military can be defeated and the government can be overthrown by a bunch of untrained randos with store-bought guns.

What if you get arms from military warehouses and deflecting soldiers m.

Like anti air and anti tank guided missiles.

 

[Absent]

2. The GOP could do voter suppression.
3. If the votes are in heavily blue states it’s kind of null and void due to electoral college.

Roughly 50% of the population would find it awesome.

Among the unhappy people, the vast majority would hope for things to get better in the next election. Or the one after.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What if you get arms from military warehouses and deflecting soldiers m.

Like anti air and anti tank guided missiles.

Then you'll still have a shambles of a force that can only dream of being as well equipped, trained and co-ordinated as the Russian Federation. Facing an opponent that Ukraine's military could never dream of matching.

 

[Gergar12]

Roughly 50% of the population would find it awesome.

Among the unhappy people, the vast majority would hope for things to get better in the next election. Or the one after.

All of that could change. You would be surprised at what hungry people will do. They aren’t all going to Canada to escape.

 

[Gergar12]

Then you'll still have a shambles of a force that can only dream of being as well equipped, trained and co-ordinated as the Russian Federation. Facing an opponent that Ukraine's military could never dream of matching.

There also a third option I didn’t mention. A foreign country backing the rebels with modern vehicles, funds, arms, etc.

 

[Schadrach]

We've had over 300 mass shootings just this year,

For a sufficiently broad definition of mass shooting, yeah. But no amount of restricting the ability of otherwise law-abiding people to own rifles of any stripe will have a meaningful impact on that, because most of those mass shootings are done in the perpetration of other crimes (a lot of it gang violence) and done with handguns. As opposed to most gun restriction laws that get proposed, which typically target the most common models of rifles held by citizens.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Who ever starts the revolution and gets tens of millions of Americans to join them and near 100 million Americans to back them up via sympathetic activities. I personally don’t want the right to do it but the risk is worth it. As for mass shootings just do age to 21, limited background checks, and safe gun storage and keep your storage key on your person.

So, in the meantime, while we're trying to recruit a third of the population to topple the government, everyone just arm themselves for that eventuality, because we're long past the point of conversation, rationality, and diplomacy, right? We can't fix the government; we have to literally shoot it up when the time comes. In the meantime, while that eventuality is miles upon miles away in the completely unforeseeable potential future, we'll just shoot each other senselessly with impunity. Talk about the inmates running the asylum.

I shouldn't really need to tell you how unrealistic you're being, acting as if the US military can be defeated and the government can be overthrown by a bunch of untrained randos with store-bought guns.

What? You mean a few dozen Cletuses with their rifles and handguns can't bring down the military of a world power because they don't like government policy? Oh, let's not be so generous; because they don't like one or two individuals in seats of power of a government largely unaffected by their individual/campaigned views because we're not a dictatorship, and any substantive change is vetted through processes of representative voting and consensus? Surely, you must jest. We all know there's a button somewhere that someone can press on a moment's notice to launch the orchestrated insurrection of the government founded on the very principles they proclaim to be protecting out of pure ignorance of the processes of mass governance.

 

[Gergar12]

For a sufficiently broad definition of mass shooting, yeah. But no amount of restricting the ability of otherwise law-abiding people to own rifles of any stripe will have a meaningful impact on that, because most of those mass shootings are done in the perpetration of other crimes (a lot of it gang violence) and done with handguns. As opposed to most gun restriction laws that get proposed, which typically target the most common models of rifles held by citizens.

I mean you could move the Overton window and trace back many guns via atf records, and gun manufacturer information. Increase penalties for having a gun. But that would give the government what it wants and you would never change policy in your direction once the political center elite doesn’t agree with it.

 

[Gergar12]

So, in the meantime, while we're trying to recruit a third of the population to topple the government, everyone just arm themselves for that eventuality, because we're long past the point of conversation, rationality, and diplomacy, right? We can't fix the government; we have to literally shoot it up when the time comes. In the meantime, while that eventuality is miles upon miles away in the completely unforeseeable potential future, we'll just shoot each other senselessly with impunity. Talk about the inmates running the asylum.



What? You mean a few dozen Cletuses with their rifles and handguns can't bring down the military of a world power because they don't like government policy? Oh, let's not be so generous; because they don't like one or two individuals in seats of power of a government largely unaffected by their individual/campaigned views because we're not a dictatorship, and any substantive change is vetted through processes of representative voting and consensus? Surely, you must jest. We all know there's a button somewhere that someone can press on a moment's notice to launch the orchestrated insurrection of the government founded on the very principles they proclaim to be protecting out of pure ignorance of the processes of mass governance.

The billionaires are not known for being extremely generous and compassionate or compromising.

Edit: Also it’s kind of what’s happening right now with 20% of liberals having guns plus 30 to 40 percent of independents as well.

Now me personally I don’t have a AR-15 or a Glock like high capacity pistol. But if in the future it happens, it happens.

 

[Absent]

All of that could change. You would be surprised at what hungry people will do. They aren’t all going to Canada to escape.

Oh so, voter suppression, electoral college, AND mass starvation ?

Listen, you have a very post-ap fantasy about "the people" taking arms against "the government", but you really miss the point of "the government" being supported by a lot of the people, especially authoritarian governments among gun nuts (due to fascist values overlap). You're not playing an RTS. You're facing ideas.

And you'd be surprised at who hungry people can be directing their anger, when authoritarian governments tell them to.

 

[Gergar12]

Oh so, voter suppression, electoral college, AND mass starvation ?

Listen, you have a very post-ap fantasy about "the people" taking arms against "the government", but you really miss the point of "the government" being supported by a lot of the people, especially authoritarian governments among gun nuts (due to fascist values overlap). You're not playing an RTS. You're facing ideas.

And you'd be surprised at who hungry people can be directing their anger, when authoritarian governments tell them to.

Well 25 percent of the military itself is food insecure right now. And I hate RTSs you have to direct each unit. Also Trump won the 2016 election without winning a majority of the votes ditto Bush v Gore.

 

[Xprimentyl]

For a sufficiently broad definition of mass shooting, yeah. But no amount of restricting the ability of otherwise law-abiding people to own rifles of any stripe will have a meaningful impact on that, because most of those mass shootings are done in the perpetration of other crimes (a lot of it gang violence) and done with handguns. As opposed to most gun restriction laws that get proposed, which typically target the most common models of rifles held by citizens.

I'm spit-balling, but I'm assuming most guns used in violent crimes of any stripe were purchased legally at some point. But are there a lot of illegal gun manufacturing rings I'm unaware off? Is there a spate of Walter Whites out there with the specific knowledge on how to make highly-affective and devastating guns working out of the secret basement of a laundromat? So, when legally-purchased weapons become the tools of violent crime, does it not follow that curbing accessibility to weapons might have a meaningful impact of the potentiality of violent crimes they're used in?

The billionaires are not known for being extremely generous and compassionate or compromising.

So leave it to the work-a-day idiots out here to arm themselves and decided when to use lethal force and take over the nation. Gotcha. Sounds like a plan. A completely stupid plan, but a plan nonetheless. Now, if you'll excuse me, my neighbor is playing his music too loud; time for me to go wave an assault rifle in his face cuz "muh freedoms!"