Resident Evil 4 (REmake)

[CriticalGaming]

I had the same issues with the RE2 Remake (and I never played the original). The story/characters were so stock/generic and rather bland, it needed to not be played so straight to be fun.

Even if they didn't apply the same "edgy" humor to the game as the original, I still think they should have kept the satiristic camp of the originals with just re-worked or updated dialog because the entire set up of the RE games have been coated in a sort of b-movie stupidity that carries itself wonderfully in the setting. There is a level of cheese that needed to remain in order to play it all with a sort of wink wink nudge nudge. As BrawlMan said, when the games got too serious we got RE6 and that shit sucked.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I agree that it's misguided to forgo the Resident Evil dumb silliness and try take the plot or characters seriously. And that the remakes are sanding that personality to a fault. But purposefulness aside I enjoyed the hell out of the RE4 remake and consider it one of the best games of the year.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

All y'all are blaming the wrong game for the 'sandpapering' of Resident Evil, if you want to call it that. RE2make wasn't the first one to go for a much more 'serious' story than its predecessors; the first game to do that, and do so successfully, was 7. And considering that 7 brought the entire franchise back from the dead after 6 killed it, what reason does Capcom have not to continue using its methods? You guys might not like where the series has gone, but more than enough other people do to make it a success story again, and that's who Capcom are going to cater for.

I know, argument from popularity, but as I see it it's why the series has gone in this direction since 7 (not RE2make) made it big. And as I've said multiple times, if you don't like it, the originals haven't gone anywhere.

 

[BrawlMan]

I had the same issues with the RE2 Remake (and I never played the original). The story/characters were so stock/generic and rather bland, it needed to not be played so straight to be fun.

No they weren't, and as usual, you don't know diddly dick. Leon is still a rookie-cop and wet behind the ears caught in a zombie apoclipypse on his first day. The only difference, is that he's not as gullible as his original counterpart. Claire is more or less the same, except she ain't taking shit from Annette this time. Not that the original exactly did, but the remake version calls Annette's bad parenting hard!

Even if they didn't apply the same "edgy" humor to the game as the original,

I never called the original "edgy" for the record. We already been through this.

I still think they should have kept the satiristic camp of the originals with just re-worked or updated dialog because the entire set up of the RE games have been coated in a sort of b-movie stupidity that carries itself wonderfully in the setting. There is a level of cheese that needed to remain in order to play it all with a sort of wink wink nudge nudge. As BrawlMan said, when the games got too serious we got RE6 and that shit sucked.

The camp is still their, but much more subtle by comparison. Saddler and Salazar says high. Krauser got turned into Gary Bussey! Capcom did nothing wrong! Saddler acts like the Spanish version of a Southern Baptist Preacher. There's plenty of camp in that! Also, ""Nighty-night, knights!" A subtle reference to 360 launch game, Ninety-Nine Nights! Ha!

I agree that it's misguided to forgo the Resident Evil dumb silliness and try take the plot or characters seriously.

Once again, the game doesn't takes itself that seriously. I swear, we're all playing different games here!

I enjoyed the hell out of the RE4 remake and consider it one of the best games of the year.

Agreed.

 

[CriticalGaming]

And as I've said multiple times, if you don't like it, the originals haven't gone anywhere.

Well in RE2's case the original plays like buttcheeks. Though the Remake is much more straight laced im okay with it more because of how dramatically better the gameplay is.

With RE4 the original game still plays fine and it is even cool in VR. Speaking of which the fact that theyve shoved new releases of the original game into market youd think theyd want to showcase the game and how cool it will be upgraded. But this is like an alternate universe version and i guess that is okay, im not mad im just disappointed

I agree that it's misguided to forgo the Resident Evil dumb silliness and try take the plot or characters seriously. And that the remakes are sanding that personality to a fault. But purposefulness aside I enjoyed the hell out of the RE4 remake and consider it one of the best games of the year.

I agree. Im not trying to say the remake was bad by any means it is a great game. Im more lamenting that i would have rather had it kept the feel of the original rather than trying walk the line between both.

 

[BrawlMan]

With RE4 the original game still plays fine and it is even cool in VR. Speaking of which the fact that theyve shoved new releases of the original game into market youd think theyd want to showcase the game and how cool it will be upgraded. But this is like an alternate universe version and i guess that is okay, im not mad im just disappointed

Both RE4 and RE4R have VR. Well, RE4R is getting VR coming out soon. So you have multiple options. Knife parry in first person is going to be sick!

​

I agree. Im not trying to say the remake was bad by any means it is a great game. Im more lamenting that i would have rather had it kept the feel of the original rather than trying walk the line between both.

"Damned if you do, and damned if you don't". I'm glad Capcom went their own way and it worked out for the better.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Well in RE2's case the original plays like buttcheeks. Though the Remake is much more straight laced im okay with it more because of how dramatically better the gameplay is.

With RE4 the original game still plays fine and it is even cool in VR. Speaking of which the fact that theyve shoved new releases of the original game into market youd think theyd want to showcase the game and how cool it will be upgraded. But this is like an alternate universe version and i guess that is okay, im not mad im just disappointed

I agree. Im not trying to say the remake was bad by any means it is a great game. Im more lamenting that i would have rather had it kept the feel of the original rather than trying walk the line between both.

I tried RE2 Remake three different times and couldn’t get into it, because it felt like it was trying to straddle the line and oddly subvert old and new gameplay design. I also played/loved the hell out of RE2, S ranks and all so there was definitely incentive and desire to revisit it.

This just felt like they kept the dated parts of the original’s design (as in nonsense puzzles like a bookcase that can’t be stepped across until it’s moved a foot closer) while even removing things like the head stomp in favor of creating faux tension by making Leon’s movement lethargic and awkward. He’s more susceptible to grabs and has an over reliance on a knife that breaks.

Meanwhile they gave it modern flourishes like OTS aiming and tactical shooting which feels like it belongs in a different game. Was very jarring and frustrating enough that I could never stick with it. Maybe if it was the only game I had to play I’d be more inclined to make some adjustments.

 

[BrawlMan]

This just felt like they kept the dated parts of the original’s design (as in nonsense puzzles like a bookcase that can’t be stepped across until it’s moved a foot closer) while even removing things like the head stomp in favor of creating faux tension by making Leon’s movement lethargic and awkward. He’s more susceptible to grabs and has an over reliance on a knife that breaks.

Yeah, that is one part of the remake I absolutely despise. There was no reason to get rid of finishing stomps. Even RE1R kept those in. You could break out of grabs (without the self-defense weapon) when grabbed from the side, but the game never tells you how to do this. Even then, it could be somewhat finnicky. I always go for kneecapping a zombie for a brief stun, and by passing them when I am going for a speedrun. That surprisingly works well, and is very practical.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Even if they didn't apply the same "edgy" humor to the game as the original, I still think they should have kept the satiristic camp of the originals with just re-worked or updated dialog because the entire set up of the RE games have been coated in a sort of b-movie stupidity that carries itself wonderfully in the setting. There is a level of cheese that needed to remain in order to play it all with a sort of wink wink nudge nudge. As BrawlMan said, when the games got too serious we got RE6 and that shit sucked.

Yeah, it's like RE2 Remake didn't realize it was a b-movie from a character/story standpoint. And when a b-movie thinks it's like a legit serious/good movie, you end up with at best like a 5/10 movie because it's just not anything that good and then it's not having fun with itself to elevate the entertainment value past being just average.

No they weren't, and as usual, you don't know diddly dick. Leon is still a rookie-cop and wet behind the ears caught in a zombie apoclipypse on his first day. The only difference, is that he's not as gullible as his original counterpart. Claire is more or less the same, except she ain't taking shit from Annette this time. Not that the original exactly did, but the remake version calls Annette's bad parenting hard!

You don't get it. I don't care if Leon or Claire or whoever is different or the same in the RE2 Remake vs their original character. The fact is the story/character writing isn't strong enough to be a legit good so there needs to be that camp or cheese or tougue-in-cheekness to it to up the entertainment value to make it actually entertaining. If RE2 Remake was just a movie, I'd give it like a 4-5/10. For example, the original Evil Dead fits that same bill for me, I don't find it to be good straight horror movie, but the sequels are great fun because of how campy and cheese-y they are and I love them. It doesn't matter if Ash's character from a basic description changed or didn't change from the 1st movie to Evil Dead 2 / Army of Darkness; it's Ash from the sequels that is the lovable, fun character that everyone fondly remembers and not the Ash from the original.

 

[Cicada 5]

All y'all are blaming the wrong game for the 'sandpapering' of Resident Evil, if you want to call it that. RE2make wasn't the first one to go for a much more 'serious' story than its predecessors; the first game to do that, and do so successfully, was 7. And considering that 7 brought the entire franchise back from the dead after 6 killed it, what reason does Capcom have not to continue using its methods? You guys might not like where the series has gone, but more than enough other people do to make it a success story again, and that's who Capcom are going to cater for.

I know, argument from popularity, but as I see it it's why the series has gone in this direction since 7 (not RE2make) made it big. And as I've said multiple times, if you don't like it, the originals haven't gone anywhere.

Saying 6 "killed" Resident Evil is pretty disingenuous. It was very contentious but it by no means killed the franchise.

In fact, 6 was pretty serious itself. Not necessarily better written but still serious.

 

[BrawlMan]

Saying 6 "killed" Resident Evil is pretty disingenuous. It was very contentious but it by no means killed the franchise.

In fact, 6 was pretty serious itself. Not necessarily better written but still serious.

True. I actually missed that part @NerfedFalcon. RE6 actually sold slightly higher than RE5, but sales did drop off due to bad word of mouth spreading fast and far enough. Still, RE6's highly mixed reception caused Capcom to think things through and course correct. The constant "Westernization" (appealing to Gears and COD) of their other franchises was not helping either, so they really had to sit down and remember why people love in the first place, and not be ashamed of their Japanese roots. We got RE7, MHW, RE2R and RE3R, DMC5, RE8, SF6, and RE4R. All under the RE Engine. Which is a fancier version of the MT Framework engine.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

@NerfedFalcon. RE6 actually sold slightly higher than RE5, but sales did drop off due to bad word of mouth spreading fast and far enough.

I wasn't aware of that, I just saw all the bad review scores from the time and figured that that was what did it in. Though, recently it seems to have been getting a popular resurgence among people who think the plot is bad enough to be funny and the mechanics are actually solid.

I played through it myself with the guy I did 5 with and... I mean, they're not wrong, but when there's basically no explanation within the game of the deeper mechanics and it's hard to figure out they even exist due to the controls being kind of all over the place, I can see why nobody thought it played well at the time.

 

[BrawlMan]

I played through it myself with the guy I did 5 with and... I mean, they're not wrong, but when there's basically no explanation within the game of the deeper mechanics and it's hard to figure out they even exist due to the controls being kind of all over the place, I can see why nobody thought it played well at the time.

It's why I can't even bother to play RE6. Not to mention it drags on for way too long and my brain checks out when at Chris's campaign.

 

[BrawlMan]

None of the camp is exactly lost in RE2 Remake, it's just done with a bit more subtlety and a little more straight lace. As far as characterization goes Phoenix, big disagreement there. Both characters are done well in either version, and the only thing the Remake did was make some small improvements. If RE2 Remake was a movie, I wouldn't even call it a 4 or 5 out of 10. That belongs to the actual first two live action Resident Evil movies. I know you say you don't like straight horror films, but that's a you thing. I always judge something on its own merits and whatever intentions is supposed to be. If the RE2 Remake was exactly like the original (which didn't have that much camp and was actually darker than the first game within many regards), then there would be no point of a remake other than graphics and gameplay changes alone. Capcom took a risk and it paid off. Like it or not. If everything was the same, then it would be boring. This is why I like capcom. They're not afraid to take a risk and at least try something different or go from another angle. It didn't work every single time, but it has worked for most of their franchises or IPs. There's a good reason why they've been in the business this long. You can cry about how "boring" the remakes are. Don't mean a damn thing to me, and most other RE fans.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Resident Evil can do action so long as it has a strong horror theme, aesthetic, and pacing.

I mean at this point its only a matter until they do a full reboot and tackle all kinds of horror ideas beyond the viral agents of Umbrella.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Resident Evil can do action so long as it has a strong horror theme, aesthetic, and pacing.

I mean at this point its only a matter until they do a full reboot and tackle all kinds of horror ideas beyond the viral agents of Umbrella.

They've kind of already moved past Umbrella and are looking towards splinter cells of old founders who went their own way instead of with Umbrella. They kind of link to Umbrella but not really. RE4 was about achieving the goal through a parasite, 7-8 and maybe 9 are about the same goal with a fungus instead. I am genuinely curious what they do with 9 though.

 

[BrawlMan]

Resident Evil can do action so long as it has a strong horror theme, aesthetic, and pacing.

I mean at this point its only a matter until they do a full reboot and tackle all kinds of horror ideas beyond the viral agents of Umbrella.

Resident Evil is Capcom's Jojo; they'll "reboot" anything. We got two soft reboots, with 4, 7, & 8 still ties back to Umbrella in some way. I know both of the latest Jojo manga have alternate continuities, but I highly doubt Capcom's going to hard reboot the franchise.

They've kind of already moved past Umbrella and are looking towards splinter cells of old founders who went their own way instead of with Umbrella. They kind of link to Umbrella but not really. RE4 was about achieving the goal through a parasite, 7-8 and maybe 9 are about the same goal with a fungus instead. I am genuinely curious what they do with 9 though.

Wesker is an ex-Umbrella employee, so it still counts with 4 and 5. Tricell was just Umbrella with a different face. The fungus saga ends at 8, and 9 will have nothing to do with the fungus.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Wesker is an ex-Umbrella employee, so it still counts with 4 and 5. Tricell was just Umbrella with a different face. The fungus saga ends at 8, and 9 will have nothing to do with the fungus.

SO 9 will deal with....i dunno Chem-trails?

 

[BrawlMan]

SO 9 will deal with....i dunno Chem-trails?

There's a rumor leak That's the a new female protag, and Jill, will have to deal with Wendigos, next game.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

None of the camp is exactly lost in RE2 Remake, it's just done with a bit more subtlety and a little more straight lace. As far as characterization goes Phoenix, big disagreement there. Both characters are done well in either version, and the only thing the Remake did was make some small improvements. If RE2 Remake was a movie, I wouldn't even call it a 4 or 5 out of 10. That belongs to the actual first two live action Resident Evil movies. I know you say you don't like straight horror films, but that's a you thing. I always judge something on its own merits and whatever intentions is supposed to be. If the RE2 Remake was exactly like the original (which didn't have that much camp and was actually darker than the first game within many regards), then there would be no point of a remake other than graphics and gameplay changes alone. Capcom took a risk and it paid off. Like it or not. If everything was the same, then it would be boring. This is why I like capcom. They're not afraid to take a risk and at least try something different or go from another angle. It didn't work every single time, but it has worked for most of their franchises or IPs. There's a good reason why they've been in the business this long. You can cry about how "boring" the remakes are. Don't mean a damn thing to me, and most other RE fans.

I never played original RE2 so I have no idea what was lost or changed or added so that's a moot point for me. So, you're in agreement that RE2 Remake wouldn't be a good movie assuming it was a movie (vs a game) and the story and characters were what they are in the game? Because that's what I'm saying. Thus, the game needs to have fun with itself to be entertaining from a character and story perspective. I do like good straight horror films (like say 28 Days Later or the 1st Saw), I just find most to not be good because horror films tend to have bad writing and rather stock/bland characters (basically everything Cabin in the Woods deconstructs). The thing focused on in a horror movie is usually the horror/kills/gore vs good plot/characters. The same is true of a lot of action movies that focus on action and thus drop the ball on writing a lot so you'd much rather have a fun action movie vs a straight action movie most of the time, it's why Jackie Chan movies rarely try to be serious because they know exactly what they are. To me, RE2 Remake didn't know what it was from a story/character standpoing regardless of whatever changes or not changes they made; either be legit good with quality writing or have fun with yourself, and it was neither.