Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Silvanus]

It really is kind of the tip-off about authors trying to insert real-world issues and real-world solutions, without running it through the filter of the logic and internal setting of the universe for which they're writing, isn't it?


Oh, we will.


Literally my next paragraph, the one you didn't quote:


So we were saying about radical, bad faith assumptions? Weren't we supposed to be "getting to that"? Or was "getting to that" brazenly doubling down immediately after getting called out the first and second times?

So please, indeed, "get to that". But since I'm certain you'll try to weasel around this,

Prosthetic Limb - DND 5th Edition

dnd5e.wikidot.com

Prosthetic Limb, common wondrous item. Source: TCoE. Typical purchase price: 100gp. By Xanathar's rules, can be crafted for half that price by a level 1 adventurer proficient in artisan's tools relevant to the materials worked with. Easily purchased with starting adventurer gold.

Broom of Flying

This wooden broom, which weighs 3 pounds, functions like a mundane broom until you stand astride it and speak its command word. It then h...

www.dndbeyond.com

Broom of Flying, uncommon wondrous item. Source: PHB. Typical purchase price: 400gp. By Xanathar's rules, can be crafted for half that price by a tier 1 adventurer, with woodworker's tools and components from a CR 4-8 creature. Easily acquired at tier 1, i.e. levels 1-4.

Artificer: Armorer - DND 5th Edition

dnd5e.wikidot.com

Armorer subclass for artificer. Arcane Armor ability restores full functionality to a PC while wearing their armor. Unlocked at level 3.

Artificer: Battle Smith - DND 5th Edition

dnd5e.wikidot.com

Battle Smith subclass for artificer. Steel Defender ability can be used as a mount. Unlocked at level 3.

Ranger: Beast Master Conclave - DND 5th Edition

dnd5e.wikidot.com

Beast Master subclass for ranger. Animal companion can be used as a mount. Unlocked at level 3.

Ranger: Drakewarden - DND 5th Edition

dnd5e.wikidot.com

Drakewarden subclass for ranger. Drake companion can be used as a mount, starting at level 7.

Of course, mobility-enhancing spells that would restore mobility to a disabled character: levitate, spider climb, tenser's floating disk, catapult, unseen servant (for tiny and small characters), bigby's hand, fly, alter self, phantom steed. Every single one of those spells is 2nd or below, with the exception of fly (3rd), phantom steed (3rd), and bigby's hand (5th). Meaning, with the exception of those two spells, they're all capable of being used at 3rd level. Important spells of note are tenser's disk, unseen servant, and phantom steed, which are all rituals and can therefore be active indefinitely.

That's everything I could name literally of the top of my head, without books at hand. There's more, believe me there's more. If I can do it, so can an author with presumptive access to the entire 5e D&D library. Assuming it's not just down to virtue signaling, which it is.

I assume you're similarly furious that carts and wagons exist in D&D, because magical solutions exist so how dare they use an alternative that also exists IRL.

Or maybe some people just prefer one solution over another in their fantasy RPG due to personal taste. Who the fuck cares? Not everything has to be drafted into this weird cultural crusade.

 

[Ag3ma]

That's everything I could name literally of the top of my head, without books at hand. There's more, believe me there's more. If I can do it, so can an author with presumptive access to the entire 5e D&D library. Assuming it's not just down to virtue signaling, which it is.

As TheMysteriousGX and Silvanus point out, this is setting-dependent and doesn't actually make sense in a lot of fantasy worlds.

I don't have the Eberron supplement which much of this stuff you cite comes from. But that's the thing, isn't it - Eberron has a specific setting. We're both arguing setting being important, but you're the guy attempting to pretend it doesn't matter whenever it's convenient to you and so has a problem with logical consistency. You would do well to think on that before you accuse others of weaselling out of arguments.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

As TheMysteriousGX and Silvanus point out, this is setting-dependent and doesn't actually make sense in a lot of fantasy worlds.

I don't have the Eberron supplement which much of this stuff you cite comes from. But that's the thing, isn't it - Eberron has a specific setting. We're both arguing setting being important, but you're the guy attempting to pretend it doesn't matter whenever it's convenient to you and so has a problem with logical consistency. You would do well to think on that before you accuse others of weaselling out of arguments.

To defend Eac here, not all of those are from Eberron and it really wouldn't matter much. The only official setting i can think of where some or all of these magic items would clash overly hard with the aesthetic and/or lore is Darksun. And not having working legs would be the least of your problems.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

To defend Eac here, not all of those are from Eberron and it really wouldn't matter much. The only official setting i can think of where some or all of these magic items would clash overly hard with the aesthetic and/or lore is Darksun. And not having working legs would be the least of your problems.

In one sense sure, but it's also like arguing that nobody should be using wheelbarrows because excavators exist. Which is doubly weird because the Battle Wheelchair concept that sparked this whole thing was also an explicitly magical construct.

So the problem is literally just the wheels

 

[Ag3ma]

To defend Eac here, not all of those are from Eberron and it really wouldn't matter much. The only official setting i can think of where some or all of these magic items would clash overly hard with the aesthetic and/or lore is Darksun. And not having working legs would be the least of your problems.

Fuck that.

It's not how the vast majority of campaign settings are, and you know it. He's implicitly arguing a world where they'd have flying broom airforces instead of medieval knights on horseback, and wagons would have been replaced by magic hover-wagons pulled by golem or air elementals. You want to play in that world, that's fine. But you don't also get to turn round and argue that because that world can exist, therefore no-one can have a world where wheelchairs are viable.

Because that is exactly what he's getting at and his self-important and unnecessarily aggressive and obstinate froth over the issue needs to die in a fucking grave.

 

[Thaluikhain]

To defend Eac here, not all of those are from Eberron and it really wouldn't matter much. The only official setting i can think of where some or all of these magic items would clash overly hard with the aesthetic and/or lore is Darksun. And not having working legs would be the least of your problems.

I don't remember that sort of thing in Spelljammer, and while there was one person in Dragonlance I remember with an artificial arm, it was explicitly a right fancy bit of kit.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Snip

Snip

I hope I'm not on ignore because of the other Phoenix :V

I'm absolutely not on Eac's side to say no wheelchairs, but he did limit himself to starting adventurers (since the talk is about dungeons), and those alternatives are absolutely valid in most every setting.

As for wheelchairs, eh? I don't mind them, and if an artificer player says they want to have a killdozer at 20, go for it.

I don't remember that sort of thing in Spelljammer, and while there was one person in Dragonlance I remember with an artificial arm, it was explicitly a right fancy bit of kit.

Spelljammer is so technopirate punk the only reason to raise an eyebrow at a fake limb is to ask why they don't have a pegleg and eyepatch.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I hope I'm not on ignore because of the other Phoenix :V

Hands up, I have to admit I have gotten you two mixed up in the past, but not often and not for a long while. The other one is rather distinctive.

 

[Trunkage]

Ah, the sweet smell of "woke" being rendered ever less meaningful by ignorance and laziness.

That's not "woke", it's communist. Communists have a reason to not like George Orwell.

How dare you claim that Woke Cultral Marxism Anarchist Liberal Antifa Post Modern Comminist Globalist Elite Cancel Culture Groomer Critical Race Theorist Social Justice Warriors is not a thing

And that everyone DH dislikes fits in that whole group.

 

[Trunkage]

I'm sorry, is that justification for permanently maiming unrelated people for no goddamned reason?

What's it gonna take, the cops shooting a guy with his hands up 57 times?

There is nothing more threatening in the world than raised hands

 

[Thaluikhain]

How dare you claim that Woke Cultral Marxism Anarchist Liberal Antifa Post Modern Comminist Globalist Elite Cancel Culture Groomer Critical Race Theorist Social Justice Warriors is not a thing

Well, you'll never fit that on a marquee, love.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I hope I'm not on ignore because of the other Phoenix :V

I'm absolutely not on Eac's side to say no wheelchairs, but he did limit himself to starting adventurers (since the talk is about dungeons), and those alternatives are absolutely valid in most every setting.

You're fine. I'm mostly just tired of every petty fandom dislike being turned into A Front In The Culture War, you know? Especially when it's so incredibly minor

 

[Baffle]

Hands up, I have to admit I have gotten you two mixed up in the past

Less so as time goes by tbh.

 

[Chimpzy]

Well, you'll never fit that on a marquee, love.

WCMALAPMCGECCGCRTSJWs. Rolls off the tongue, awakens elder gods, what's not to like?.

 

[Terminal Blue]

It really is kind of the tip-off about authors trying to insert real-world issues and real-world solutions, without running it through the filter of the logic and internal setting of the universe for which they're writing, isn't it?

Kind of late to the party on this one but.. what is it about putting wheels on a chair that violates the internal logic of the universe?

Because sure, you could buy some random magic broom assuming you are playing in a game where magic items are always available, or you could buy a magic wheelchair with more utility than a normal one. Because wheelchairs are actually a designed solution to the problems of people who are not able to walk normally. Brooms are not.

Heck, if the broom can carry 400lbs, just build the fucker into a wheelchair. Now stairs aren't a problem, but your everyday life isn't subject to the whim of some magical cleaning implement.

Of course, mobility-enhancing spells that would restore mobility to a disabled character: levitate, spider climb, tenser's floating disk, catapult, unseen servant (for tiny and small characters), bigby's hand, fly, alter self, phantom steed.

Any reason not to also use a wheelchair?

Do you want to be completely incapacitated by a dispel magic spell?

At this point, this is kind of like wondering why any disabled person who can afford to own a horse would use a wheelchair when they could just spend their entire life permanently strapped to the back of a horse. What a violation of the internal logic of our universe! Why would anyone use a simple, obvious solution specifically designed to solve the problem at hand when you could use an elaborate, complex, unreliable solution that might hypothetically be better if you wanted to move as fast as a horse for some reason.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

You're fine. I'm mostly just tired of every petty fandom dislike being turned into A Front In The Culture War, you know? Especially when it's so incredibly minor

Then I'll make sure I'm loud and clear, wheels are great.

BUT

Kind of late to the party on this one but.. what is it about putting wheels on a chair that violates the internal logic of the universe?

Because sure, you could buy some random magic broom assuming you are playing in a game where magic items are always available, or you could buy a magic wheelchair with more utility than a normal one. Because wheelchairs are actually a designed solution to the problems of people who are not able to walk normally. Brooms are not.

Heck, if the broom can carry 400lbs, just build the fucker into a wheelchair. Now stairs aren't a problem, but your everyday life isn't subject to the whim of some magical cleaning implement.



Any reason not to also use a wheelchair?

Do you want to be completely incapacitated by a dispel magic spell?

At this point, this is kind of like wondering why any disabled person who can afford to own a horse would use a wheelchair when they could just spend their entire life permanently strapped to the back of a horse. What a violation of the internal logic of our universe! Why would anyone use a simple, obvious solution specifically designed to solve the problem at hand when you could use an elaborate, complex, unreliable solution that might hypothetically be better if you wanted to move as fast as a horse for some reason.

Strictly for an adventurer, a wheelchair isn't the practical solution. The cheap historical solution would be crutches or peg legs. As point of fact, this whole discussion is about wheelchair accessible dungeons, which sums it up. So you have to finagle a wheelchair to make sense without designing a dungeon around the idea, and at that point you can just look at that finagling and quite wisely say to just cut the wheelchair out entirely while you're dungeon diving.

Not saying wheelchairs are ahistorical or out of place in a D&D, and I personally would allow wheelchair PCs since I write all my own material, but I do understand the perspective that wheelchairs in dungeons don't make too much sense.

 

[Trunkage]

WCMALAPMCGECCGCRTSJWs. Rolls off the tongue, awakens elder gods, what's not to like?.

Please stop giving them ideas. Next thing you know they will think we are praying to it

Also, needs more X and Zs to be an elder god

 

[Trunkage]

Then I'll make sure I'm loud and clear, wheels are great.

BUT



Strictly for an adventurer, a wheelchair isn't the practical solution. The cheap historical solution would be crutches or peg legs. As point of fact, this whole discussion is about wheelchair accessible dungeons, which sums it up. So you have to finagle a wheelchair to make sense without designing a dungeon around the idea, and at that point you can just look at that finagling and quite wisely say to just cut the wheelchair out entirely while you're dungeon diving.

Not saying wheelchairs are ahistorical or out of place in a D&D, and I personally would allow wheelchair PCs since I write all my own material, but I do understand the perspective that wheelchairs in dungeons don't make too much sense.

Steps are terrible for crutch and peg legs too. The best way to get down a set of stair with crutches is to throw them down and boot scoot

Edit: Here's where we get to the benefit of medivel medicine. Instead of needing crutches or a peg leg, you would just die of infection etc. Problem solved

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Steps are terrible for crutch and peg legs too. The best way to get down a set of stair with crutches is to throw them down and boot scoot

Accurate. But that's why Eac brought up the cheap and simple magic items a PC can theoretically start with. I'd say the prosthetic limb is a cop out and if a player is willingly choosing to be handicapped, they're probably looking for something that will cause issue and make motivation for the player. Which is also why I'd be okay with a wheelchair.

 

[thebobmaster]

Steps are terrible for crutch and peg legs too. The best way to get down a set of stair with crutches is to throw them down and boot scoot

That...probably works better than my method whenever I've been on crutches, which is to double up the crutches under one arm, and cling to the railing for dear life with the other arm and awkwardly make my way down the stairs. Then again, most time I've been on crutches was due to a knee injury where I was in a knee immobilizer, so I'm not entirely sure boot-scooting down the stairs would have been as viable, either.