Baldur's Gate 3

[Baffle]

help players who are sort of unaware of whatever repercussions there are for any given action, vs feeling like they just wasted a bunch of time and have to start over or something.

Yeah, I got stung by everyone in my (Extreme Good) party disapproving of me when I said something really shitty because I thought my character was obviously joking, but it turns out they were just being shitty. I checked for a reload and thought how long since I saved?! Then I started a massive fight for no reason, got killed and had to reload anyway.

 

[Dreiko]

I wonder if there would be a way to implement something like event markers, where anytime something significant happens in any quest line (like NPC death or a choice that changes things) it would be stamped in the log, and players would have the option to go back to just before that event and try something different. This would be efficient and also help players who are sort of unaware of whatever repercussions there are for any given action, vs feeling like they just wasted a bunch of time and have to start over or something.

I think having this aura of everything you do being permanent and potentially significant is awesome though. Other games have trained people into being too unthinking in their actions. Like for example, and this still blows my mind, a good segment of the playerbase of fallout 3 shot their dad with the BBgun during the tutorial segment when you're still a kid. That's just...insane to me, and if that was BG3 you'd get into some shit for it as you should lol.

And starting over is never the answer, because for every fuckup something else down the line will shift to make your playthrough unique and interesting. That's people who don't understand this game's logic and play it like its other games that don't have a plan set in place for every which permutation that is hand-crafted to make your adventure feel unique even if you fail at things or make "wrong" choices.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

I think having this aura of everything you do being permanent and potentially significant is awesome though. Other games have trained people into being too unthinking in their actions. Like for example, and this still blows my mind, a good segment of the playerbase of fallout 3 shot their dad with the BBgun during the tutorial segment when you're still a kid. That's just...insane to me, and if that was BG3 you'd get into some shit for it as you should lol.

And starting over is never the answer, because for every fuckup something else down the line will shift to make your playthrough unique and interesting. That's people who don't understand this game's logic and play it like its other games that don't have a plan set in place for every which permutation that is hand-crafted to make your adventure feel unique even if you fail at things or make "wrong" choices.

As long as the interactions are working as intended then I would have to concur. I was more responding to the previous comments about being locked out of a quest progression or if an NPC dies for some arbitrary reason through no fault of the player. Maybe with games this size though it’s impossible to see and do every outcome anyways. Having a history of OCD as a kid this sounds like it could be maddening lol.

 

[Dreiko]

As long as the interactions are working as intended then I would have to concur. I was more responding to the previous comments about being locked out of a quest progression or if an NPC dies for some arbitrary reason through no fault of the player. Maybe with games this size though it’s impossible to see and do every outcome anyways. Having a history of OCD as a kid this sounds like it could be maddening lol.

There's thousands of ending permutations based on your choices along the entire playtime so yeah you definitely can't "see it all", it's more there to allow for a lot of replayability and to have the world feel responsive to your decisions. It's not content that you have to experience to have fully completed the game.

 

[Adam Jensen]

I'm done with my first playthrough.

This is GOTY, for sure. I don't even have to play through Starfield to know that it can't come close to what Larian has achieved with Baldur's Gate 3. Holy fuck, what a game, what an RPG.

Awesome, thanks. Maybe I'll just stick with my current thief run and then maybe roll up Mervin for my next go.

Not awesome. Wyll is extremely important for another companion who you're probably going to love, and there's a lot of content in the main story tied directly and/or indirectly to him. Content that you do not want to miss. I'd load a previous save if I were you.

 

[Bartholen]

I'm around 70 hours in, approaching the end in act 3. And dear jesus it is a shitshow. Act 3 is clearly unfinished, seeing as I've had around 10 crashes today alone. It is going to need some serious patching, which is just baffling after 3 years of early access and a 2GB patch a short while ago. An important NPC's dialogue bugged out, depriving me of a ton of context about Baldur's Gate itself. Another NPC said they were leaving for some side stuff, but my journal claims I killed them. I've been completely unable to enter the docks because the game crashes the instant it enters the cutscene there. And now even my Steam client won't start.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

No, use multiple sources. Pulling data from one source merely reinforces error if that source is not reliable.

Other sources can be using completely different or completely old numbers or a combination of both and both sources can be accurate. One source make be only considering the people on the dev team as the amount of people on the team vs the entire staff from a different source. The reddit thread breaks down the number of people on each project but what about the people on staff that's human resources or payroll/finance and whatnot (that wouldn't be on a game project)? Thus, you're comparing apples to oranges... like I've been trying to tell you for 3 or 4 posts now.

Also, pretty funny how you totally cut out my reasons for why the Escapist article was so bad and acting like we only found it bad merely because it doesn't agree with our preconceived notions when it's a really poorly written article. But your reason for liking the article has literally nothing to do with your preconceived notions at all...? Sure thing!!!

 

[Ag3ma]

Other sources can be using completely different or completely old numbers or a combination of both and both sources can be accurate. One source make be only considering the people on the dev team as the amount of people on the team vs the entire staff from a different source. The reddit thread breaks down the number of people on each project but what about the people on staff that's human resources or payroll/finance and whatnot (that wouldn't be on a game project)? Thus, you're comparing apples to oranges... like I've been trying to tell you for 3 or 4 posts now.

Sure dude. That's waffle and no data. And whenever you look for actual data, you're still wrong.

That Reddit source says Obsidian has teams of 80 devs per game (others, probably questionable, say their new property Avowed is being worked on by ~100 with one estimate as high as 150). This article (Jan 23) says Obsidian has 260 devs, although are working on several games.

Feargus Urquhart is doing what he does best

The Obsidian founder isn’t ready to leave the RPG behind just yet

www.nme.com

Larian - from the words of its own CEO - had over 400 for BG3. (For context, this article and other sources say Skyrim was made by ~100.)

Larian's Baldur's Gate 3 team is 10 times bigger than when it made Divinity: Original Sin

The studio chose to scale up instead of scaling down its vision, which it calls 'the benchmark incarnation of D&D 5th Edition.'

www.pcgamer.com

But your reason for liking the article has literally nothing to do with your preconceived notions at all...? Sure thing!!!

For anyone who wants to use the power of language skills and analysis and bothers to check stuff out properly, it's simply more accurate.

Back in #181, you are talking about devs "complaining" and hosting a vid of someone saying "Well, everyone else just has to do better." Then later the IGN article which makes the absurd and grossly emotive claim other devs are in "panic" (despite there being no apparent panic). Just to give an idea of how problematic the IGN vid is, it prominently cites a Twitter argument from one Xalavier Nelson Jr., who I had to look up on the web and does not appear to be a AAA game developer. Fucking hell! IGN mostly then just wanders off into a rabble-rousing whinge about microtransactions and shoddy ports rather than addressing the issues in question of core game development that the devs it aspires to criticise were discussing.

This is then why we are having this argument, with you guys laying into developers like Obsidian, leaving me to point out that these are not the AAA development mega-studios you seem think they are, and they are not dripping with money and resources, and this is precisely the point many devs were making that BG3 is a work most studios in the cRPG genre cannot readily meet.

 

[Satinavian]

That Reddit source says Obsidian has teams of 80 devs per game (others, probably questionable, say their new property Avowed is being worked on by ~100 with one estimate as high as 150). This article (Jan 23) says Obsidian has 260 devs, although are working on several games.

Not to go into that particular discussion, but when comparing numbers, always make sure to distinguish between "devs" and "employees". It is normal to have a factor of 2-4 between those. And that is not just marketing, management and HR either. Testers, voice actors, artists, tech support etc. are generally not counted under "devs".

 

[Dreiko]

So I finally got to actually play this. Took like 2 hours in the char creator reading everything. I got most of the origin folks in my party now. Highlight of my day was when Astarion was pushed off a mountain by a bugbear and he was hanging out near this depressed bear down by the druid encampment and I couldn't rest until I reached and revived him. Also casting grease and then detonating it with my dragonbreath is fun in this game too. 11/10. Too much tentacle. Oh and talking to animals is just as amazing here as it was in OS2.

 

[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Bartholen]

Phew, finally done. Final playtime about 66 hours, though I deliberately left a lot of stuff unfinished in act 3, because it would have messed with the narrative momentum. This is gonna sweep all the awards like Elden Ring did last year. There's no way any other big release can come even close to this. This is an 8-hour long 8-course meal at a 6-star Michelin restaurant when it comes to RPGs. It's so polished, so multifaceted, so versatile, so replayable that I'm pretty sure this game will become a long-time staple of gaming culture. It's so good and so long that you just sink into it and almost forget just how good it is. I did literally nothing but play this game this entire weekend, and the hours just flew by.

Spoiler: Welp, on to spoilers I suppose

General summary of how my game ended:

• Gale died at the temple of Bhaal, after which resurrecting him is impossible. I have a feeling that the game hasn't accounted for this yet, so for the rest of my playthrough his corpse just lay awkwardly there in camp.
• I completely ignored Wyll, Gale and Astarion's questlines, I'm saving them for later playthroughs. I have a feeling Wyll's questline will be a lot more impactful once he's actually with you. Jaheira and Minsc were also firmly just sitting on their ass.
• In the end I rejected the Emperor, freed Orpheus and chose to turn into a mindflayer. I felt it was in character for my PC, seeing as he was all in with Lae'zel. That said, I felt the ending to that character relationship was a bit lackluster, maybe I didn't advance it enough. I killed the Netherbrain, and entered Avernus with Karlach and Wyll. I felt it was appropriate, because in my headcanon the PC already saw himsef as a monster, so he who fights monsters and yada yada.

All in all the ending felt pretty standard, but what were we expecting from one of the biggest profile RPGs ever? Big damn heroes saving the day, horde of mooks to face at the end, felt very similar to Dragon Age: Origins in a lot of respects. And that's where roleplaying a different character comes in. I want to see how differently you can do a playthrough. Because to my understanding things can go drastically differently depending on who you side with.

The best thing about this game is Karlach, period. She is just the best, the sweetest cinnamon roll, the cutest, squishiest teddy bear, the best bro in gaming since Roche in Witcher 2. It's in her where this game's true heart lies, which is pretty funny when you think about it. I want to go a "super best friends" playthrough with her, Wyll and Halsin as the companions, because they seem the most pure good guys of the group. And conversely, an Astarion/Lae'zel/TBD playthrough for just being an evil ****.

That said, as with any piece of entertainment this massive, I feel kind of drained right now. So taking a break from this for a bit.

 

[Adam Jensen]

The best thing about this game is Karlach, period. She is just the best, the sweetest cinnamon roll, the cutest, squishiest teddy bear, the best bro in gaming

Yes. Yes, she is. And I already miss her. I need another playthrough just so I could hang out with Karlach. And this time, it won't take me 20h to recruit her. I kept postponing that quest because I had no idea it was about the recruitment of a companion.

 

[Bartholen]

Yes. Yes, she is. And I already miss her. I need another playthrough just so I could hang out with Karlach. And this time, it won't take me 20h to recruit her. I kept postponing that quest because I had no idea it was about the recruitment of a companion.

I'm considering recruiting her again, because I'm doing a playthrough with Gale and Astarion, and my party needs a tank. But I just did that with her, and I'm intending to play a more morally dubious character this time (openly accepting Raphael's offer wouldn't go well with her I think). I recruited a hireling Paladin to carry that role until I get Halsin on the boat, but then I'm going to miss out on tons of party banter. God, why must this game be so amazing?

Spoiler: I'm also

struggling with wanting to look up on the wiki if there's a true way to save her at the end, and not just going to Avernus with her. On one hand I feel such an endearing character deserves that kind of happy ending, but on the other it'd feel like I'd be robbing myself of an amazing emotional payoff.

Also forget what I said about taking a break, I'm already all in on my Warlock playthrough with the aforementioned Gale and Astarion as companions.

 

[Adam Jensen]

Spoiler: I'm also

struggling with wanting to look up on the wiki if there's a true way to save her at the end, and not just going to Avernus with her. On one hand I feel such an endearing character deserves that kind of happy ending, but on the other it'd feel like I'd be robbing myself of an amazing emotional payoff.

Spoiler: Not yet

I think Larian is supposed to implement more endings for Karlach in the future. There are hints in the game that her quest line was never finished, and that she's supposed to also get a happy ending. Dammon's lines where he says that he'll keep looking for a solution is one obvious hint. Also, you can get enriched infernal iron, but you can't use it.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I'm considering recruiting her again, because I'm doing a playthrough with Gale and Astarion, and my party needs a tank. But I just did that with her, and I'm intending to play a more morally dubious character this time (openly accepting Raphael's offer wouldn't go well with her I think). I recruited a hireling Paladin to carry that role until I get Halsin on the boat, but then I'm going to miss out on tons of party banter. God, why must this game be so amazing?

Spoiler: I'm also

struggling with wanting to look up on the wiki if there's a true way to save her at the end, and not just going to Avernus with her. On one hand I feel such an endearing character deserves that kind of happy ending, but on the other it'd feel like I'd be robbing myself of an amazing emotional payoff.

Also forget what I said about taking a break, I'm already all in on my Warlock playthrough with the aforementioned Gale and Astarion as companions.

I think that expresses more about the game than any other comment or review ever could. When you finish a 70 hour game only to hit "new game" the moment the credits finish rolling...well i cant think of better praise for anything can you?

Elden Ring didnt have that kind of attachment rate. Neither will Starfield.

Though perhaps that speaks to the addictive nature of D&D. Im planning on playing this game again myself but on Ps5.

 

[Satinavian]

I'm considering recruiting her again, because I'm doing a playthrough with Gale and Astarion, and my party needs a tank. But I just did that with her, and I'm intending to play a more morally dubious character this time (openly accepting Raphael's offer wouldn't go well with her I think). I recruited a hireling Paladin to carry that role until I get Halsin on the boat, but then I'm going to miss out on tons of party banter. God, why must this game be so amazing?

Why go with Halsin for the evil wplaythrough ? Wouldn't it be better to get Minthara for that ? If you are not using Wyll and Kharlach, it doesn't hurt that much to side with the Goblins for once.

 

[Bartholen]

I think that expresses more about the game than any other comment or review ever could. When you finish a 70 hour game only to hit "new game" the moment the credits finish rolling...well i cant think of better praise for anything can you?

Elden Ring didnt have that kind of attachment rate. Neither will Starfield.

BG3 has probably the most interesting comparison with Elden Ring, because they're such decidedly different experiences in vital ways. And the replayability is definitely one of the biggest: you can only experience Elden Ring the first time once. There are no millions of "wait, you can do that?" comments about Elden Ring. You can see most of what Elden Ring has to offer over the course of a single playthrough. The world is static, it's only in what order you progress through it where the permutations lie. Whereas my Warlock playthrough in BG3 is already feeling like an entirely different experience from my first, because I'm running an entirely different setup, and discovered things I missed the first time. For example, I missed Wyll and Auntie Ethel being in the Druid grove on my first go. Giving Wyll a decidedly different introduction.

Why go with Halsin for the evil wplaythrough ? Wouldn't it be better to get Minthara for that ? If you are not using Wyll and Kharlach, it doesn't hurt that much to side with the Goblins for once.

Oh no, I'm not doing an evil playthrough yet. It's more of a roleplay thing, because I play DnD myself. I can build all sorts of headcanon and evil reasons for why the PC makes decisions that the game would straight up qualify as good. The concept for the character (an Old One Warlock) is that he's really nice, courteous and curious, but will fuck anyone over the minute someone else offers him a better deal and will take any power he can. A benevolent tyrant in the making you could say. Which is in contrast to my previous character, who I played as distrustful.

 

[Casual Shinji]

After about 4 or 5 false starts I think (THINK) I'm finally ready to commit to a character and actually play this game. I'm a little disappointed that you can't actually tweak the faces, and can only choose from a set of 6 or 7 (depended on the race).

The combat is a bit to get used to. Never played DnD, so shit like 'saving roll' had me utterly baffled initially.

 

[Ag3ma]

Spoiler: Not yet

I think Larian is supposed to implement more endings for Karlach in the future. There are hints in the game that her quest line was never finished, and that she's supposed to also get a happy ending. Dammon's lines where he says that he'll keep looking for a solution is one obvious hint. Also, you can get enriched infernal iron, but you can't use it.

This is the perfect sort of basis for an expansion or sequel. Go fix/rescue Karlach!

(Or kill her, MUAHAHAHA!)