Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

Gergar12

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Because they are anti establishment against above all, to them. This is what Israel had coming for endorsing such policies.

Or should the Palestinians imitate South America during the cold war, letting themselves be beaten down and laying down?
Okay, I don't like to give advice to Hamas, but there were dozens of ways to do this without coming across like they wanted to mix the Holocaust and a supersized mass shooting. For one they could have attacked Israeli ports, and not just gunned down any random civilian they saw. There was an air base nearly too with aircraft worth 50-60 million dollars. Had they limited civilian deaths, and didn't rape anyone they could have come across better.

But no let's gun down a party with random foreigners on it. Not only have they created a world that hates and fears Gazans like countries such as Germany which gives aid to them, Nepal, and Thailand, but they have created an excuse for Netanyahu to ethnically cleanse the entire area, you know the thing they wanted to stop.

Now it's basically going to be fewer people who want a two-state solution on either 1967 lines or just a two-state solution at all. It's going to be the normies who ignore this, and just work, and spend time with their family. And basically, people who want to massacre the other side one for ethnostate reasons, and the other for Islamic fascist reasons.

Let me ask you another question, do mass shootings create policy change? I don't see it. The only instance you could even somewhat point to was Japan's former getting killed by a troubled person who had their life savings depleted due to a cult. Most of the time it makes us more afraid, puts up barriers between different groups of people, and everyone buys guns if they an American and or just straight-up support their preferred fascists, or the hard right.

You don't fight stronger hard right leaders with bullets, the Gazans were winning the PR war before this. More Gen Z supports Palestine than not look up Pew Polls. They even got people in the right to call for Israel to be defunded eventually. The liberals even start backing them.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.

Hawki

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Aaaaand your little nerdy brain still cannot process that this is not a "religious" issue.

Palestinians can be perpetually driven from their homes, shot, bombed, denied civil rights by a ultraconservative, racist colonial regime, their counter-violence is just a wacky jihad thingy haha those muslims they only think about religion until they're carpet bombed to submission. Also "the muslims", that is the planet's 2 billion homogeneous hive mind of religious fundamentalists that haven't beheaded you yet but solely because you run fast.
Amazing. Even now, all you can do is strawman.

No, the Israel-Palestine conflict is not solely about religious issues, it would be a lie to say that religion doesn't play a part, given the status of Jerusalem and its holy sites. You have hardcore fundamentalists on both sides. You have Israel's illegal settlements in the East Bank, and you have Hamas, whose mission statement is to wipe Israel off the map, and the Jews with it.

Now, as for "the muslims," as you called them, I never claimed anything of the sort. I never said that every Muslim feels the same (because no-one does), or every Muslim is violent (which they're not, because no-one is). However, that's true of everything. If your litmus test is everyone of every group needs to be violent for the group/creed for the group to be an issue, then nothing would be an issue, ever. But I've given you the statistics on Islamic terrorism, and all you can do is strawman rather than actually generate anything worth saying. Not every Muslim needs to be a member of ISIS for ISIS to be a threat, nor does every Christian need to be a member of the LRA for it to be a threat. That's an absolutely absurd argument.

Go back to your little world of star wars fanfictions, and stop assuming that your comic book logic equips you to grasp anything about the real world's history, cultures or geopolitical realities.
This is so rich coming from someone whose grasp of fiction is "canon is what I say it is" and whose belief is that any regards to continuitiy is ipso facto conservative.

I don't know when you crawled off the bottom of your boat and abandoned the rest of the bottom feeders, but I think they're missing you. If you ever decide to turn up, actually inform yourself on history and geopolitical realities, because I've given you information on geopolitical realities, and all you can do is ignore them, cry Islamophobia, or use strawmen.
 

Hawki

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(For those of you who actually care about gepolitics. Honestly, I think a three state solution is as good as one can get at this point, and even that isn't "good." That, or Egypt anexes Garza, Jordan anexes the West Bank, and/or the settlements are removed/evacuated and 47 lines are redrawn. No-one's going to be happy, but it's probably the least bad option.)
 

Hawki

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Now it's basically going to be fewer people who want a two-state solution on either 1967 lines or just a two-state solution at all. It's going to be the normies who ignore this, and just work, and spend time with their family. And basically, people who want to massacre the other side one for ethnostate reasons, and the other for Islamic fascist reasons.

Let me ask you another question, do mass shootings create policy change? I don't see it. The only instance you could even somewhat point to was Japan's former getting killed by a troubled person who had their life savings depleted due to a cult. Most of the time it makes us more afraid, puts up barriers between different groups of people, and everyone buys guns if they an American and or just straight-up support their preferred fascists, or the hard right.

You don't fight stronger hard right leaders with bullets, the Gazans were winning the PR war before this. More Gen Z supports Palestine than not look up Pew Polls. They even got people in the right to call for Israel to be defunded eventually. The liberals even start backing them.
There's a theory floating around that Hamas attacked now because Iran wants to derail the normalization process. Iran pokes Saudi Arabia in the eye. Hamas attacks. Israel attacks back. Normalization is shattered. Hamas gets to continue its war, Iran wins by proxy. Because while Hamas are fanatics, I'm not sure what they expected. They kill 800 people, piss off Israel, and piss off the rest of the world because their own citizens are attacked.
 

Gergar12

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There's a theory floating around that Hamas attacked now because Iran wants to derail the normalization process. Iran pokes Saudi Arabia in the eye. Hamas attacks. Israel attacks back. Normalization is shattered. Hamas gets to continue its war, Iran wins by proxy. Because while Hamas are fanatics, I'm not sure what they expected. They kill 800 people, piss off Israel, and piss off the rest of the world because their own citizens are attacked.
The Iranian paranoia at getting invaded by their Sunni neighbors is nutty but understandable given the Iran Iraq War. But yes I know Iran gains by this, but not in the long run. Eventually Russia will lose the Ukraine War or at least be in a less secure position, China’s economy will fail, and their possible Taiwan invasion will either fail or not happen. Instead they let their resentment and hatred cloud their judgement. Even North Korea which yes has a higher birth rate vs South Korea will lose. Then the Iranians will have no one to back themselves and no one to blame but themselves for decades of bad foreign policy.
 

Hawki

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The Iranian paranoia at getting invaded by their Sunni neighbors is nutty but understandable given the Iran Iraq War. But yes I know Iran gains by this, but not in the long run. Eventually Russia will lose the Ukraine War or at least be in a less secure position, China’s economy will fail, and their possible Taiwan invasion will either fail or not happen. Instead they let their resentment and hatred cloud their judgement. Even North Korea which yes has a higher birth rate vs South Korea will lose. Then the Iranians will have no one to back themselves and no one to blame but themselves for decades of bad foreign policy.
As to that:

-Would Iran really be that worried? Iran's engaged in a geopolitical game with SA that reflects the Sunni/Shia divide (at least in part), but invading Iran would be suicidal. It's powerful in of itself, and the terrain makes it highly defensible.

-I don't know if Russia will "lose" the Ukraine War, but fair enough, however it ends, it'll have lost a lot (probably a net loss, even if it gets the territories it wants.

-Apart from that...yeah, probably. It isn't just foreign policy, Iran's squandered itself on domestic policy as well. By all rights, given its oil reserves, it should be much richer, but someone (I forget who, maybe Khemenni?) famously said "economics is for donkeys." Look where that's got you now, geniuses.
 

Gordon_4

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(For those of you who actually care about gepolitics. Honestly, I think a three state solution is as good as one can get at this point, and even that isn't "good." That, or Egypt anexes Garza, Jordan anexes the West Bank, and/or the settlements are removed/evacuated and 47 lines are redrawn. No-one's going to be happy, but it's probably the least bad option.)
At this point, everyone being the least pissed off is likely to be the best case scenario.
 
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Gergar12

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6 Dollars per gallon of oil coming to a US city near you.

In all seriousness fuck off, and let the Iranian public deal with the morality police, and Iranian regime. There are already lots of Iranians who back the West, and even Israel on social media.
 

meiam

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(For those of you who actually care about gepolitics. Honestly, I think a three state solution is as good as one can get at this point, and even that isn't "good." That, or Egypt anexes Garza, Jordan anexes the West Bank, and/or the settlements are removed/evacuated and 47 lines are redrawn. No-one's going to be happy, but it's probably the least bad option.)
Would that even work? Would the Israeli really be okay with having the Palestinian within rocket (and now paraglider) range?
 

Hawki

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Would that even work? Would the Israeli really be okay with having the Palestinian within rocket (and now paraglider) range?
"Work" might be a generous term, but it's the best scenario I can think of. And yes, obviously better people than me have spelt lifetimes trying to deal with the issue, but I don't see a one-state or two-state solution being viable, so bar one side completely eliminating the other, three-states seems like the best option.

Edit: There's also the polling data that shows that the two-state solution isn't really favoured by anyone.

 

Gordon_4

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Would that even work? Would the Israeli really be okay with having the Palestinian within rocket (and now paraglider) range?
Well Israel is already in rocket range of current Palestine. The bigger question is whether or not Palestinians are gonna be onboard with becoming Egyptian or Jordanian. Sure it’s absorption into a similar cultural situation but we’re talking about a people who’s major trait is wanting their own space back. But Israel may appreciate the rocket button being held by actual militaries with chains of command rather than political partisans who flip a coin every few hours to decide if they want to fuck around today.

On the other hand that means that Israel is bordered directly by Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. And both sides are likely still smarting over the Yom Kippur War; the Israelis for the torture and massacre of POWs by the Arab Coalition, and Arab Coalition States for (more or less) losing.
 
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Hawki

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So I wanted to wait until the footage was confirmed, and here we go.

But Islamophobia, something something.
 

Gergar12

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I cannot believe I am agreeing with him when I am fucking calm. The hell.



Granted he is a fascist, but it is weird.

Edit2: No I don't agree with the hatred of immigrants, but the rest is not nearly as bombastic.
 

gorfias

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Very unsettling the people celebrating mass murder. Was a single Israeli soldier harmed in this attack or was it 100% all non-combatants?
 

Gordon_4

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Very unsettling the people celebrating mass murder. Was a single Israeli soldier harmed in this attack or was it 100% all non-combatants?
Technically everyone over the age majority in Israel is a soldier since they have national service, so every adult civilian death is one less able bodied fighter to bring to bear.

That doesn’t make this any less gross though, and I’m not sure if any active/regular personnel have as of yet been killed.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I just feel bad for all the non-combantants and civilians who are caught in this mess. Imagine living in a place like this and all the sounds of war, explosions, and deaths have become such a regular part of your life

I also hate seeing Jerusalem being constantly in a state of conflict. Like, the whole debate over who's the rightful owner aside, do they really want to see their holy land destroyed like this? Do they not care about preserving the artifacts and historic sites?
See, if the Dome of the Rock gets destroyed, the rapture and end time kick off and the Jews and Muslims get killed and sent to hell

If you were wondering why evangelical christianity is all in for Israel

Anyway,
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Technically everyone over the age majority in Israel is a soldier since they have national service, so every adult civilian death is one less able bodied fighter to bring to bear.

That doesn’t make this any less gross though, and I’m not sure if any active/regular personnel have as of yet been killed.
There's footage of drone kills on tanks and captured military facilities and depots. The IDF is certainly not gonna be in a hurry of confirm troop casualties given the massive black eye they took and concentrating on Israeli civilian casualties give them carte blanche to level neighborhoods and starve out Palestinian civilians.