Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[Absent]

"The declaration of war by Israel, the occupying power, on a civilian population it has been illegally and forcibly occupying and oppressing for decades is a continuation of its record of criminality and impunity. This is reinforced and affirmed by Israeli officials who have issued genocidal and hateful calls for ethnic cleansing publicly and unashamedly.

The scenes of devastation inflicted on Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip are harrowing. The international impunity Israel enjoys is a moral, political, and legal stain affront to humanity and basic decency as well as the principles of international law. Any attempt to excuse or cover these crimes is unacceptable and outright reprehensible. The facts are not in dispute. Israel, as an occupying power, is fully responsible for this situation because it insists on keeping the Palestinian people captive and stripping them of their rights for over half a century.

Israel has illegally used force and the threat of force, confiscation of land, persecution, collective punishment, and reprisals to deny the Palestinian people their fundamental rights and serve the common aim of displacing and replacing the Palestinian people, in violation of their right to self-determination and other peremptory norms of international law.

We are in this situation because the world failed to do what is needed and turned its back on Palestinian rights. Simplistic statements that omit Palestinian lives and rights and encourage their violation have to stop. As an occupying power, Israel has no right or justification to target the defenceless civilian population in Gaza or elsewhere in Palestine. Reprisals against civilians in armed hostilities are illegal under international humanitarian law and must stop.

In view of the open war declared by Israel on the Palestinian people in Gaza and the critical and ever-worsening situation of the Palestinian people under Israel’s colonial occupation and apartheid regime in the rest of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, the international community must immediately intervene and provide international protection to the Palestinian people and end Israel’s barbarous campaign of death and destruction.

The international community must also act on their collective political, legal, humanitarian, and moral responsibilities towards this prolonged injustice. It has a responsibility to promote accountability, which is the only viable remedy for this illegal, abhorrent situation. The Palestinian people will continue to defend themselves, their homes, and their fundamental right to live in freedom and dignity, free from occupation, apartheid, and persecution."

- The Palestinian State

This is all correct. Still, the blind murders of terrorism can never be legitimised. How many pro-palestinian israelites among the victims ? The Israeli government is as guilty towards Palestinians as Putin is towards Ukrainians, but the support of Ukraine will fade quickly with blind strikes on the russian population.

 

[Absent]

bwaah islam

yeah what a shock

 

[Hawki]

yeah what a shock

You've often failed to say anything about anything in other threads, why should I be surprised now?

 

[Gergar12]

Not going to lie, he had a point about Iran.

WSJ News Exclusive | Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps gave the final go-ahead last Monday in Beirut.

www.wsj.com

Edit2:


Edit 3: I know late edit, but no invading, and bombing Iranian Cities won't create more stability in the region, it's a meme.

 

[Silvanus]

On a global scale, Christian and Jewish terrorism are not problems. Islamic terrorism is. You're entitled to think otherwise, that doesn't make it true.

Guess those millions of people killed and displaced by the LRA aren't a problem. Someone should tell 'em!

If you can't tell the difference between a religious state and a state that uses religion as an excuse, if you see Iran and Russia as absolutely equivalent when it comes to religion and how it's involved in the state apparatus, I don't know what to tell you.

Of course I don't see them as absolutely equivalent. Religion is more overwhelmingly dominant in Iranian politics than it is in Russian and Belarussian politics. But that is yet another shifted goalpost-- You said 'Christian dictatorship' initially. Russian Orthodox Christianity plays a huge part in Putin's support base, his platform, and the actions of his government.

 

[Hawki]

Guess those millions of people killed and displaced by the LRA aren't a problem. Someone should tell 'em!

Global. GLOBAL.

Even if the LRA has displaced millions of civilians (I couldn't find a figure, let's just assume that's true), you can't put that on the same scale on the levels of Islamic terrorism/fundamentalism in terms of global reach. It's absurd to put something like the LRA, or Christian terrorism in general, on the same level as Islamic terrorism. You just can't.

Of course I don't see them as absolutely equivalent. Religion is more overwhelmingly dominant in Iranian politics than it is in Russian and Belarussian politics. But that is yet another shifted goalpost-- You said 'Christian dictatorship' initially. Russian Orthodox Christianity plays a huge part in Putin's support base, his platform, and the actions of his government.

Even by your own post's parameters, this isn't a gotcha. By your own admission, Christian politics aren't emeshed in Russia/Belaraus in the same way as Iran/Afghanistan. Whatever support Orthodox followers give Putin, it's in no way comparable to the theocratic systems of government that exist in Islamic states. Whether you call them Christian dictatorships, or theocracies, or whatever terminology we want to quibble about, these aren't equivalent scenarios or systems of government.

 

[Hawki]

And meanwhile, in local news, Jews are being told to stay off the streets of Sydney because of pro-Palestine supporters, along with fireworks at Lakemba.

Religion of peace my fucking arse.

 

[Silvanus]

It's absurd to put something like the LRA, or Christian terrorism in general, on the same level as Islamic terrorism. You just can't.

Which is why nobody did. Something doesn't need to be on the same scale as the largest possible problem in order to be a problem.

On a side note, no form of terrorism is a truly global issue, apart from conceivably nuclear terrorism. All of it affects some countries, some nations, some communities, while leaving the majority untouched.

Even by your own post's parameters, this isn't a gotcha. By your own admission, Christian politics aren't emeshed in Russia/Belaraus in the same way as Iran/Afghanistan. Whatever support Orthodox followers give Putin, it's in no way comparable to the theocratic systems of government that exist in Islamic states. Whether you call them Christian dictatorships, or theocracies, or whatever terminology we want to quibble about, these aren't equivalent scenarios or systems of government.

I have no idea why you're banging on about whether they're equivalent or not. That's not what you said. You just said you weren't aware of Christian dictatorships.

Why do you always do this? Shift into some weird space where things have to be equivalent to the biggest examples in order to count? If I said I'm scared of spiders, would you insist that I can't be, because I can't "compare" that fear to someone else's greater fear of murderers-- even though I never said anything about my fear being as great or equal?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

New York governor condemns pro-Palestinian rally

Gov. Kathy Hochul called the rally “abhorrent and morally repugnant” in a statement.

www.politico.com

Hhm....

 

[BrawlMan]

You've often failed to say anything about anything in other threads, why should I be surprised now?

And your arguments are full of shit. I wasn't going to get too involved, but my foot down right here

@Absent has been able to say plenty in other threads. We've had our disagreements from time to time, but he has more than enough backed up his stuff. So far you haven't backed up shit. I know expert nor know everything on this topic, but I know when something is off.

Why do you always do this?

Because he knows he's got nothing better otherwise. He's done this plenty of times in the other forums and threads. That's why I do not take him that seriously when it comes to the political issues as this.

 

[Hawki]

Which is why nobody did. Something doesn't need to be on the same scale as the largest possible problem in order to be a problem.

On a side note, no form of terrorism is a truly global issue, apart from conceivably nuclear terrorism. All of it affects some countries, some nations, some communities, while leaving the majority untouched.

Are you really getting into the semantics of global, as in, every piece on Earth?

The LRA doesn't have any influence outside Uganda. Groups like ISIS have influence in the Middle East, North Africa, and the Philipines. Islamic terrorism is a threat on multiple continents, Christian terrorism is barely even worthy of the name, and Jewish terrorism is confined to Israel. You can play whataboutism all you want, these things are not equal.

I have no idea why you're banging on about whether they're equivalent or not. That's not what you said. You just said you weren't aware of Christian dictatorships.

Because none of your examples are Christian dictatorships in any real sense of the word, and are not equivalent to actual Islamic states.

Why do you always do this?

Why do YOU do this?

No, seriously, I want to know. Why is it that you're so willing to equivocate? Why are we playing this semantic game of whataboutism? You did the same thing with the Koran burning stuff, and now you're doing it here as well. You couldn't condemn the burning of embassies, now you're dancing around the issue.

Shift into some weird space where things have to be equivalent to the biggest examples in order to count? If I said I'm scared of spiders, would you insist that I can't be, because I can't "compare" that fear to someone else's greater fear of murderers-- even though I never said anything about my fear being as great or equal?

No-one's said you can't be afraid of spider bites. But by this analogy, people are talking about murder, and you're inserting spider bites.

And your arguments are full of shit. I wasn't going to get too involved, but my foot down right here

How, exactly?

@Absent has been able to say plenty in other threads. We've had our disagreements from time to time, but he has more than enough backed up his stuff. So far you haven't backed up shit. I know expert nor know everything on this topic, but I know when something is off.

Absent is a loon who's compared continuity in media to conservatism (and by his reckoning, fascism), so you might want to look at who's backing up what.

 

[BrawlMan]

How, exactly?

You're the genius, you figure it out.

Absent is a loon who's compared continuity in media to conservatism (and by his reckoning, fascism), so you might want to look at who's backing up what.

1. I don't remember him with this encounter, I don't think I ever respond to it or skimmed when I read it. Sucks to be him in that regard, but that's not my problem.
2. You definitely have no room to talk when it talks about film criticism. Say by the guy who obsessed over another user for having opinion on the crappier recent Alien, Terminator, and Predator sequels. And will not waste time on something that he knows is bad, nor will blame somebody for not being interested and said crappy sequels. Excluding Prey of course. I only bring this conversation up as a point of reference. I haven't forgotten that you're never bring it up to me again, and I'm the one who brought it up.

I'm not going to do a back and forth on this so you might as well quit while your ahead right now.

 

[Hawki]

You're the genius, you figure it out.

So you don't have an argument.

You definitely have no room to talk when it talks about film criticism. Say by the guy who obsessed over another user for having opinion on the crappier recent Alien, Terminator, and Predator sequels.

Ah yes, this coming from the person who said Covenant was bad without having seen it and thinking that was an opinion of equal worth to someone who had seen it.

And will not waste time on something that he knows is bad, nor will blame somebody for not being interested and said crappy sequels.

I don't blame anyone for not being interested in something. What I will take issue with is someone saying they know is bad/good without having read/watched/played it themselves, especially if they're passing it off as informed opinion in discussion. There's a reason why I don't discuss media at length when I haven't directly taken part in the consumption of it.

Also, what the heck do films have to do with anything here?

I'm not going to do a back and forth on this so you might as well quit while your head right now.

"Quit while your head?"

Flattered as I am that you think I'm ahead after saying I was full of shit awhile back, as unfortunate as that phrase is when there's current reports of Hamas decapitating their hostages/victims (unverified), what I want to know is why we're (and by we're, I mean Sil, primarily) playing this equivocation game.

 

[Absent]

I don't remember him with this encounter, I don't think I ever respond to it or skimmed when I read it. Sucks to be him in that regard, but that's not my problem

Don't mind the kid, he's referring to the fact that I critique the "wokism panic" that makes specific changes such as gender or color swapping such a huge deal in the conservative echo chambers of internet (an underlying double standards that treats any adaptation/transpositions as total betrayal if some keywords are at stake). As I lumped him with the other constant feeders of fabricated outrage in the ridiculous "woke" thread, he's trying to frame it as an assault on the very idea or narrative continuity or something. That's stupid but vaguely harmless compared to his self-satisfied islamophobia.

Anyway, quick and dirty translations :


"Let's not forget that Gaza lives under a blocus since 2007, that there's been several wars and that Gaza has been bombed multiple times by the israelian army, making more than 3800 civilian deaths. Gaza became an open sky prison. Generations born after 2007 have only known israelian occupation, and everyday humiliation, bombings, threats and a state terrorism imposed by the israelian state. So frustration and despair help Hamas to recruit and to get some popular support even if people pay the price of a conflict with no political solution. Pushing Palestinians aside will bring no just and lasting peace. On the opposite, the palestinian issue must be brought back to the center of international diplomatic attention in order to make things progress. Else, acts of violence and civilian murders will unfortunately happen again."

- Ziad Majed, french-libyan researcher and political scientist.


"Palestinians are victims of grave human rights violations, in a more sporadic and less visible way. In particulat in the West Bank, Palestinians were shot dead by the hundreds these last years, often by the trigger-happy israelian soldiers who very often stayed unpunished. Worse, some forms of pogroms have been carried over by settlers under the protection of the israelian army, because some these absolutist settlers are in Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition."

- Pascal de Crousaz, doctor in international relations and israel-palestine conflict specialist.


"I think the politic lead by the government has created the conditions for this kind of confrontation to happen. THe palestinian authority should have been reinforced and hamas weakened. The exact opposite has been done, with the intent to separate the two territories. The [national union government in Israel] formulation is absurd. We must above all not legitimate a government of thugs with a coalition of god nuts, some sort of israelian hamas."

- Elie Barnavi, historian anf former Israel embassador.


"Bwaaaah muslims"

- Hawki

 

[Worgen]

 

[Silvanus]

No-one's said you can't be afraid of spider bites. But by this analogy, people are talking about murder, and you're inserting spider bites.

No, the category is "fears", not "murder". You've not grasped the analogy.

Let me try again, laying out every step.

So. Someone says, "Out of ebola, meningitis, and cancer, only one of them is a problem, and the first two guesses don't count".

((That's analogous to your original position. One is worse than the others on a global scale. But the person has chosen instead to dismiss the idea that the others are even problems)).

Someone else replies, "the other two are still severe problems. They still cause enormous suffering for many thousands of people".

((That's analogous to my position. The severity of the worst one doesn't somehow make the other two no longer be problems)).

The first speaker responds, "Why are you equivocating cancer with meningitis? One is much worse!"

((And there's the analogy for your reply: insisting that even rcognising the other two as problems is somehow automatically drawing an equivalence in scale or severity)).

 

[Silvanus]

OT: Gaza's health ministry has increased the Palestinian death toll to 560.

Hamas launched another wave of rockets this morning. And this afternoon, the IDF bombed a refugee camp.

 

[BrawlMan]

So you don't have an argument.

In this case: you.

yes, this coming from the person who said Covenant was bad without having seen it and thinking that was an opinion of equal worth to someone who had seen it.

Good for you. If you like it, then like it. I don't and will never be invested in.

don't blame anyone for not being interested in something. What I will take issue with is someone saying they know is bad/good without having read/watched/played it themselves, especially if they're passing it off as informed opinion in discussion. There's a reason why I don't discuss media at length when I haven't directly taken part in the consumption of it.

Also, what the heck do films have to do with anything here?

That's a you problem. Not everyone's going to follow your rigorous standards and principles. We all have our different levels of them. I have my own set of standards, but I won't waste time on crappy sequels from a bankrupt system that does nothing interesting or wastes everybody's time. You don't like my opinion? Go cry to to someone who cares. By the way, you're the one who brought up somebody else's film criticism in the first place, so that's your fault.

Quit while your head?"

Google speak messed up again. Nothing more.

what I want to know is why we're (and by we're, I mean Sil, primarily) playing this equivocation game.

You can figure that out yourself. I suggest you start looking back at your previous post and actually read them. I'm done here.

Don't mind the kid, he's referring to the fact that I critique the "wokism panic" that makes specific changes such as gender or color swapping such a huge deal in the conservative echo chambers of internet (an underlying double standards that treats any adaptation/transpositions as total betrayal if some keywords are at stake). As I lumped him with the other constant feeders of fabricated outrage in the ridiculous "woke" thread, he's trying to frame it as an assault on the very idea or narrative continuity or something. That's stupid but vaguely harmless compared to his self-satisfied islamophobia.

Thank you.

 

[Gergar12]

 

[Absent]

Who will out-coward the other ?