Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

BrawlMan

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Your calling me full of shit but most normal people support Israel air strikes or worst on this issue as of right now. Even Biden didn’t push back on an invasion of Gaza. Not everyone is college educated leftist or a protester. I am offering a template of a proposal for an off ramp from more death. Doing nothing is not a political option for either Israel or the US hence the air strikes, the Ford CSG.

Grow up
I didn't say do nothing. I said "the eye for an eye" or "appropriate response" does not work. Because many are not going to see it that way, take drastic and unnecessary further action to make things "even", or for those in power feel it's not enough and will want to cause more damage, death, and destruction until it's "enough" on their pathetic say so.

That would be you. Also, people like you only say that when they know they got nothing to defend with and use a lame come back.
 

Gergar12

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I didn't say do nothing. I said "the eye for an eye" or "appropriate response" does not work. Because many are not going to see it that way, take drastic and unnecessary further action to make things "even", or for those in power feel it's not enough and will want to cause more damage, death, and destruction until it's "enough" on their pathetic say so.


That would be you. Also, people like you only say that when they know they got nothing to defend with and use a lame come back.
Instead of attacking me for proposing a solution to this, that does its best to minimize deaths in Gaza and Israel. Why don't you propose a solution? It's harder to do that than attacking and criticizing.

Here's a solution by someone whose views I don't share.

 

BrawlMan

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Instead of attacking me for proposing a solution to this, that does its best to minimize deaths in Gaza and Israel. Why don't you propose a solution? It's harder to do that than attacking and criticizing.
I didn't say I had all the answers. I'll give you some credit. You know stuff, and there are plenty of things you know more than me but you act like you have the answer to everything, enough, enough of an answer, or know what's the best solution. I just know that solution you're going for is really not going to work. I don't know about the video, but I'm not in the mood to watch that right now.

I just know that "appropriate response" solution you have is a nothing answer.
 

SilentPony

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So in today's I didn't think the Leopard would eat my face news, comments made by Netanyahu at a party conference in 2019 have resurfaced, showing he supported Hamas because they were useful in isolating Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza.

" “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” "

 

Gergar12

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I didn't say I had all the answers. I'll give you some credit. You know stuff, and there are plenty of things you know more than me but you act like you have the answer to everything, enough, enough of an answer, or know what's the best solution. I just know that solution you're going for is really not going to work. I don't know about the video, but I'm not in the mood to watch that right now.

I just know that "appropriate response" solution you have is a nothing answer.

99% of proposed solutions are "nothing", because ultimately even if every American stood up, and said to Israel enough is enough(They aren't doing that, and it's somewhat the opposite), they don't control the White House or the US Military.

It's called a compromise. The whole region is basically a personalized eye for an eye in philosophy, and I am proposing a template so that I am giving them what I think the region's bloodthirsty leaders want, and ultimately stopping at just that without escalating something even my own president didn't even do by shipping arms to Israel.

As of right now, there are anywhere from 855 to 1500 deaths In Gaza, and 1000 deaths in Israel. More deaths in Israel(At least right now), but more wounded in Palestine, and way more displaced in Gaza/Palestine(120K). I would say Israel has proven my point and inflicted more pain on Palestine than Hamas as I easily predicted.

As of right now, American media is super bloodthirsty at least complicit with the Israeli slaughter-fest with notable Republicans even more so(Halley, and Graham). If you think I am bad, turn on your TV.

I am also just glad there isn't enough super disaster like a Category 5 hurricane, a Typhoon, or an even bigger earthquake than the one in Afghanistan given the conflicts in Armenia as well as Ukraine.

But yes murder is bad, revenge killings are bad, and so is homicidal murder, locking people millions of people in a densely packed square, taking land from people who live there, etc.
 

Thaluikhain

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Further rocket attacks on cities including Ashkelon, from within Lebanon. Death toll stands at ~800 in Palestine and ~1,000 in Israel.

Something bizarre: Both Netanyahu and an IDF spokesman (Richard Hecht) advised Palestinians to "leave immediately" and "get out", with the PM then saying that the military would attack every part of Gaza. Except... all major crossings remain blockaded by Israel. The Israeli military even had to clarify that the crossing Hecht advised people to take actually isn't open.


Are they just fucking ignorant of their own tactics? How can you be moronic enough to instruct people to leave and then block their exit?
Eh, surely it's a lie, rather than a mistake? Pretending that they are giving them the option of leaving, not their fault they stayed and died. Now, people buying that line have to be ones fairly well in their camp already, but for some reason it seems important that supporters are given this sort of half-hearted lie, though I don't pretend to understand why.
 

SilentPony

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Eh, surely it's a lie, rather than a mistake? Pretending that they are giving them the option of leaving, not their fault they stayed and died. Now, people buying that line have to be ones fairly well in their camp already, but for some reason it seems important that supporters are given this sort of half-hearted lie, though I don't pretend to understand why.
Its more insidious than that. Civilians have been ordered to leave. If anyone is still there when the tanks roll it, well they're not civilians are they? All civilians left. By definition the only people remaining are targets.
Its preparation for a total war air bombardment. Setting the groundwork that the only people left are militants, therefore all fair game.
 

BrawlMan

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99% of proposed solutions are "nothing", because ultimately even if every American stood up, and said to Israel enough is enough(They aren't doing that, and it's somewhat the opposite), they don't control the White House or the US Military.
I didn't expect no ask them to, though you did mention how that UN should all be responsible, or find a better compromise. I might be getting you confused with another user though.

It's called a compromise. The whole region is basically a personalized eye for an eye in philosophy, and I am proposing a template so that I am giving them what I think the region's bloodthirsty leaders want, and ultimately stopping at just that without escalating something even my own president didn't even do by shipping arms to Israel.
Not much of a compromise. When do you think it will be enough for them? Cuz I don't think it'll be enough and at some point somebody is going to want more and more just to be gluttons to strike down "justice and divine retribution!".


As of right now, American media is super bloodthirsty at least complicit with the Israeli slaughter-fest with notable Republicans even more so(Halley, and Graham). If you think I am bad, turn on your TV.
Tell me something I don't know. I have turned on my tv, but not to the usual news. I really touch news TV aside from local. Republicans can fuck off and get knee bashed in the face as usual

But yes murder is bad, revenge killings are bad, and so is homicidal murder, locking people millions of people in a densely packed square, taking land from people who live there, etc.
Thank you Mr. Obvious. It's why that "compromise" you pointed out is more than likely not going to work or just escalate things further. Because these killings have been going on for decades and these solutions or compromises can't even be called proper Band-Aid solutions. It's putting toilet paper or tissue paper on large gashing wounds.
 
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Gyrobot

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Further rocket attacks on cities including Ashkelon, from within Lebanon. Death toll stands at ~800 in Palestine and ~1,000 in Israel.

Something bizarre: Both Netanyahu and an IDF spokesman (Richard Hecht) advised Palestinians to "leave immediately" and "get out", with the PM then saying that the military would attack every part of Gaza. Except... all major crossings remain blockaded by Israel. The Israeli military even had to clarify that the crossing Hecht advised people to take actually isn't open.


Are they just fucking ignorant of their own tactics? How can you be moronic enough to instruct people to leave and then block their exit?
It's called luring them to a Killzone and part of Israel's ruthless military action towards Palestine. This is Genocidal Organ in action
 

Gergar12

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I didn't expect no ask them to, though you did mention how that UN should all be responsible, or find a better compromise. I might be getting you confused with another user though.


Not much of a compromise. When do you think it will be enough for them? Cuz I don't think it'll be enough and at some point somebody is going to want more and more just to be gluttons to strike down "justice and divine retribution!".



Tell me something I don't know. I have turned on my tv, but not to the usual news. I really touch news TV aside from local. Republicans can fuck off and get knee bashed in the face as usual


Thank you Mr. Obvious. Is why that compromise your point out is more than likely not going to work or just escalate things further. Because these killings have been going on for decades and these solutions or compromises can't even be called proper Band-Aid solutions. It's putting toilet paper or tissue paper on large gashing wounds.
The UN has completely failed and has dashed ground-level expectations of them. At some point or another, they have to look themselves in the face and think really hard about what they want to be, and it starts with the fact that Americans don't want to pay their fair share for the UN, the Russians want to hobble it, and everyone else is trying to posture. It won't stop World War 3 from going conventional(Guns, bullets, tanks, no nukes), and at the current pace may not even stop it from going nuclear.

Had Bernie Sanders been president we could have had a chance to pressure the Israelis to limit their revenge killings. Joe Biden just opened the floodgates, and the Republicans even more so. We are our leaders, humanity has failed.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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So in today's I didn't think the Leopard would eat my face news, comments made by Netanyahu at a party conference in 2019 have resurfaced, showing he supported Hamas because they were useful in isolating Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza.

" “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” "

I've been hearing some political commentators saying Netanyahu is done politically. He was apparently warned nine times by the Egyptian government, and did nothing.

I'm curious what this means for Hamas, because after this I doubt they're going to see them as useful idiots, but I doubt the organization is going to fall because of this.
 
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SilentPony

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I've been hearing some political commentators saying Netanyahu is done politically. He was apparently warned nine times by the Egyptian government, and did nothing.

I'm curious what this means for Hamas, because after this I doubt they're going to see them as useful idiots, but I doubt the organization is going to fall because of this.
Hamas is getting exactly what it wanted - an over-reaction. It wanted to turn sympathizers into activists, and civilians into sympathizers. The few thousand suicide guman got their glorious death, the deal between Israel and the Saudis that would have given serious land to the west bank Palestinians is dead on arrival, the entire world is watching as Palestinian children are killed and people are going to sour on Israel, and a million children in Gaza will grow up hating the Israelis and be ready to join Hamas as recruits.
Basically Hamas played Netanyahu, and got everything.
 
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BrawlMan

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It won't stop World War 3 from going conventional(Guns, bullets, tanks, no nukes), and at the current pace may not even stop it from going nuclear.
Let's try not to jump that far ahead.

Had Bernie Sanders been president we could have had a chance to pressure the Israelis to limit their revenge killings. Joe Biden just opened the floodgates, and the Republicans even more so.
Nothing against Bernie Sanders, but I doubt it.
 

Gergar12

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  • "Biden did not try to press Netanyahu or convince him not to go through with a ground operation."
    • (Not what a real leader does, they don't enable bad behavior)
  • "Between the lines: According to a U.S. source, Biden is expected to handle the current Gaza war in a similar way to how he handled the 2021 Gaza war. The U.S. gave Israel public backing and held frequent and low-profile diplomatic engagements with Netanyahu and other leaders in the region."
    • (Translation: the IDF gets to displace another 50 to 200 thousand people, and murder another 500)
Meanwhile

1696962694032.png
 

Absent

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And of course because of course :


Are they just fucking ignorant of their own tactics? How can you be moronic enough to instruct people to leave and then block their exit?
In nazi Germany, the Jews were deemed undesirable yet they weren't allowed to leave the country.

I have no idea how this will go down (and frankly even typing this is hard to me). For all the worldwide outrage and hostility that Hamas brought towards Palestinians (and towards Muslims in general because bwaaah-look-at-what-their-religion-did-again), it also succeeded in reminding the world that Palestine is an issue : because right now, frankly, the israelian apartheid and the ongoing colonization pushed by the ultraconservative government were being shrugged off and normalized even within the muslim world. But also, on Netanyahu's side, it succeeded in greenlighting more violence, extermination and conquest, which is just a large benefit - it's not like a sudden heel turn in his discourses and policies. So it can all go towards a renewed diplomatic urgency, or towards more indifference and apathy for the destruction of a people many are prone to stigmatize already (waah muslims I'm not islamophobe but they always make trouble everywhere). In a general matter, certainly a boon for the islamophobes and the antisemites piggybacking on it, as if Netanyahu and his clique were "the Jews", as if Hamas' attack was "religious". Dickheads feeding each others. Those are feelng fine.

Here we're terrified for our partners, on both sides. The bridges, the cooperation, the trust that their organisations were building will be crushed by this new polarisation, and the obstacles and hostlity they already faced from conservatives (fuck conservatives always ever everywhere) will just double down. That is, if they even survive this. It's like building houses of cards in a hurricane. The little healing they were bringing to their societies, to the victims of violence so far, is beyond undone, it's just rendered futile in one stroke.

Stupidity always wins in the end.

Hamas is getting exactly what it wanted - an over-reaction. It wanted to turn sympathizers into activists, and civilians into sympathizers.
Locally maybe, but the international community is so appalled by what they did, it goes both way. Palestinians are losing support. It's not like Hamas had targetted fanatical settlers or racist military squads, or any legitimate hard target. And we already saw here that when it comes to counting deaths and scores to settle, people gladly start counting from saturday.

But possibly the new israelian violence will manage to dwarf that attack, that's their big hope ? We can always count on ultraconservatives to surpass each others in inhumanity, but I'm not sure it'll count as a victory for Hamas, given what would be left of them. And it certainly won't be a victory for Palestinians. Or their future perspectives. Manufactured rage won't bring the peace that they require in a context where full military victory wouldn't be theirs, and I doubt they ignore it.

But of course, despair breeds some weird "everything but the status quo" logic.
 
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SilentPony

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Locally maybe, but the international community is so appalled by what they did, it goes both way. Palestinians are losing support. It's not like Hamas had targetted fanatical settlers or racist military squads, or any legitimate hard target. And we already saw here that when it comes to counting deaths and scores to settle, people gladly start counting from saturday.

But possibly the new israelian violence will manage to dwarf that attack, that's their big hope ? We can always count on ultraconservatives to surpass each others in inhumanity, but I'm not sure it'll count as a victory for Hamas, given what would be left of them. And it certainly won't be a victory for Palestinians. Or their future perspectives. Manufactured rage won't bring the peace that they require in a context where full military victory wouldn't be theirs, and I doubt they ignore it.

But of course, despair breeds some weird "everything but the status quo" logic.
Depends on what the Israeli response in the next few weeks are. Hamas is betting, rightfully so I'm guessing, that Israel is going full blood for the blood God, skulls for the skull throne crazy with their counter attack.
A thousand Israelis are dead, and the world is aghast. And then Israel turns around and kills....40, 50, 80,000 people in response. That's a huge victory for Hamas. Gaza is one of the highest density cities in the world, any ground invasion or air bombardment is going to have thousands of civilians dead with each strike, and Hamas is there with their phones ready to say "See the true face of the Jewish people!"

Remember Hamas wants to turn the world against Israel, and the actual leaders of Hamas are in Iran. They don't give a shit about Palestinian children. Or better yet, those children are more useful dead and on social media.
 
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Gyrobot

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Also those who fight and take more Israeli heads will be seen as "see our last stand against these foul butchers!"
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Further rocket attacks on cities including Ashkelon, from within Lebanon. Death toll stands at ~800 in Palestine and ~1,000 in Israel.

Something bizarre: Both Netanyahu and an IDF spokesman (Richard Hecht) advised Palestinians to "leave immediately" and "get out", with the PM then saying that the military would attack every part of Gaza. Except... all major crossings remain blockaded by Israel. The Israeli military even had to clarify that the crossing Hecht advised people to take actually isn't open.


Are they just fucking ignorant of their own tactics? How can you be moronic enough to instruct people to leave and then block their exit?
You're assuming the Israeli government is acting in good faith and not preemptively declaring that any bodies found in the rubble are enemy combatants.
 
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