Funny Events of the "Woke" world

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Trash Goblin
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This sounds like something I would say.
The difference is you often use "lack of proof" as some gotcha to claim any regressive/authoritarian approach you agree with is valid while refusing to acknowledge the balance of evidence (both quantity and quality) that disagrees...
 
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Ag3ma

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This sounds like something I would say.
There is a key difference between something being supported by evidence and something being proven. The latter, of course, representing something for which the supporting evidence is uncontestable (or sufficiently close to).

One of the key tricks of debating by some people is the goalpost-shifting where the evidential demands are moved to suit the desired conclusion. If their evidential demands are met, they simply increase the amount of evidence they require, up to eventually insisting on "proof" in the knowledge that this probably cannot be met. Had they been more honest earlier on, they'd have simply said "I don't believe that and nothing you say can convince me", but they're not willing to do so because it shows them up to be unreasonable.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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I wouldn't have called them dumb. But I would say that the answers from a lot of no voters was 'I just don't know what it was about'..... so they're just not willing to put any thought into it
Come on, the Yes campaign were very light on details about how it would all work if the Yes vote won, with the answer to a lot of queries being 'we'll decide that after'. Suffice to say that more than a few people found that to be a bit 'odd', if not straight out suspect.


And I still do not understand why 'I don't know' means you vote no. That's nonsense
Not really, most people aren't mad keen on agreeing to things they don't understand.
 

tstorm823

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The difference is you often use "lack of proof" as some gotcha to claim any regressive/authoritarian approach you agree with is valid while refusing to acknowledge the balance of evidence (both quantity and quality) that disagrees...
I think you may have read the comment backwards. The idea here is that proof is a silly standard, and we often shouldn't hold ourselves to it.
 

Trunkage

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Come on, the Yes campaign were very light on details about how it would all work if the Yes vote won, with the answer to a lot of queries being 'we'll decide that after'. Suffice to say that more than a few people found that to be a bit 'odd', if not straight out suspect.

Not really, most people aren't mad keen on agreeing to things they don't understand.
False

The No voters thought that voting yes would do damage to society, or them personally, somehow

If this wasn't the case, you would vote yes, because it doesn't affect you, just like they voted yes for same-sex marriage

As to 'light on detail', I'm pretty sure everyone got the details, they were light because it did very little. But people kept on asking for more details because they were looking for some sort of negative. There was no amount of detail that would have been satisfying. And there was way less detail during the same-sex marriage debate

It was incredibly absurd how Mundine used almost every line that the Yes campaign was using... and then stated that you should use this reasoning to vote No. I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone. Which brings us to the real reason why the Yes campaign failed. They used logic instead of screaming about racism all the time like the No campaign did

And this is from a person who thinks the Yes vote wouldn't have cured much. I just want people like John Howard, Tony Abbot and Peter Dutton to stop controlling and devasting people's lives just because they are Indigenous.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Dude, you're not appealing to science over lockdowns, you're appealing to economics.
I asking for basic proof of something you say works actually fucking works. I don't give 2 shits about the economics. I partly do in US because people losing their jobs in the US means losing healthcare, which is probably worse overall than being unnecessarily exposed to covid due to people not getting care for everything else (as covid is not nearly the only public health concern). I'm aware just about everywhere else (developed nations at least) have public healthcare that you don't lose because you got fired or laid off so that US issue doesn't apply elsewhere. Thus, I'm not asking for that US issue to even be in the discussion. Where is the proof that lockdowns actually saved any life (lowering covid deaths =/= saving overall deaths btw)? Nobody has yet to produce this evidence because it actually doesn't exist.

No, I think you'll find they're economics. That's why the people who write nearly all of them are economists.

For instance, many of them are very explicitly assigning financial measures of value to make their determination, including numerous ones you have cited. Some are using "QALY", but the concept of QALY also comes out of the work of, and is still largely used by, economists. Just in case you don't believe this, head over to the Wikipedia page on QALY and check out the citations, looking at the author affiliations. Masses, and masses, of economists. Because it's a branch of economics.
OMFG, not every cost-benefit analysis is economics. For example, basically all medical interventions are basically cost-benefit analyses over whether any one of them actually fucking works. Any drug study is literally just a cost-benefit analysis that doesn't care about cost, it just cares about if something is beneficial. After you find that, then you can have the money discussion.

Again, it's not on me to prove lockdowns don't work, it's on you to prove your claim that they work.

I said Western Australia, not Australia. We had about 5 weeks of lockdown, and virtually no community spread. On a local scale, covid didn't happen here.
IIRC, all of Australia at least for the first year or so did really well in keeping covid cases and deaths low. Even with that great result of keeping covid at bay, Sweden did better than Australia in overall deaths. You know that covid is not the only public health issue and by only concerning yourself about covid and ignoring everything else, that is also not good and beneficial to public health either.

Here's Sweden in 2020; people are living like normal, no masks, no lockdowns, no distancing, commuting like normal to work everyday. Sure, they had more community covid spread without a doubt, but in the end, that didn't result in more death.

Why do we need proof to pursue a course of action? If everything has to be based on proof, the end result is inevitably that we do nothing all the time.
So you don't make things worse...
 

Baffle

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Jesus Christ. "Redpilltiktok", "sigmamale". What a pathetic joke.
Really small tie knot too, someone got skinnied!

Did anyone else have skinnies at school? It's where to yank someone's tie really hard so the knot closes up and is hard to undo.
 
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Avnger

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Really small tie knot too, someone got skinnied!

Did anyone else have skinnies at school? It's where to yank someone's tie really hard so the knot closes up and is hard to undo.
It really does look like he's just wearing a child's tie
 

Baffle

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Btw, anyone worried about skinnies: you can put a large coin in the knot to stop it pulling too tight.
 

Trunkage

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I voted No because I couldn't see anything to indicate it wasn't going to end up with another ratfuck of corruption, nepotism and abuse like ATSIC was.
I mean, probably. But then, there is a high possibility of any government policy. (Actually, I shouldn't just blame the government here. Any private institution would do the same as well.)

Also, when you are talking corruption here, do you mean the Clarke of it all? Or are you talking about something else in particular? Eg. wastefulness? (I'd also note that, last week, Dutton clearly is using Clarke as a stereotype to 'investigate' Indigenous Australians.)

I would not that the Intervention happened only a few years after this. I put that policy as more damaging than ATSIC
 

Trunkage

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Btw, anyone worried about skinnies: you can put a large coin in the knot to stop it pulling too tight.
After having to wear ties to school, I deliberately picked a job so I would never have to wear a tie... but this is good to know. Does the coin just beat on your chest all the time?
 

Trunkage

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White liberals are weird/self-hating I do agree.

Ah, the old cities have more gun violence than rural areas trick....

Until you get a different table where you look at counties with the most gun violence as a proportion of the population. And then 2 cities appear in the top ten on the table, with most being rural counties
 
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Baffle

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After having to wear ties to school, I deliberately picked a job so I would never have to wear a tie... but this is good to know. Does the coin just beat on your chest all the time?
The coin sits within the knot so you're not really aware of it, though skinnying is generally less common in the workplace than it was at school.
 
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