Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[Silvanus]

On the flip side, every man, woman, and child in Palestine is being considered an enemy combatant, and every last building a valid military target, for simply existing in the West Bank regardless of specifics.

Completely agree. Despicable war crime dogshit, isn't it?

Quick reminder you also argued that because a country shelled an area held by an occupying invader, that country is therefore "asking for" its civilian population to be bombed by the invader. And that its the fault of the occupied when it happens.

And by the way, bombing civilians is how total war works. Civilians are the means of production for war materiel. No more Civilians, no more weapons, no more warfighting capacity.

 

[Dreiko]

Because it's transparently just meaningless semantic hairsplitting that doesn't even map to common usage.

Then you've got a bone to pick with common usage because words mean things and those who split hairs in the first place. All I said was that it's the same ethnic group infighting, which it is, most Israelis and Palestinians look pretty much the same if you take the cultural artifacts and things like clothing out of the equation. If you wanna say "bigoted towards jews" which is the inference you're hinting at with common usage then say hebrewphobic or something.

 

[Bedinsis]

Apparently the director of the UN's New York office resigned at the organisation due to the UN's handling of the ongoing genocide of Palestinians.

Spoiler: big image

 

[Silvanus]

most Israelis and Palestinians look pretty much the same

Good lord.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Quick reminder you also argued that because a country shelled an area held by an occupying invader

Let us keep the dubious Ukrainian propaganda in the Ukraine thread where it can be safely ignored like Zelensky's support and admiration of Israel.

Then you've got a bone to pick with common usage because words mean things and those who split hairs in the first place. All I said was that it's the same ethnic group infighting, which it is, most Israelis and Palestinians look pretty much the same if you take the cultural artifacts and things like clothing out of the equation. If you wanna say "bigoted towards jews" which is the inference you're hinting at with common usage then say hebrewphobic or something.

The meanings of English words are not systematically determined by Greek, Latin, or any other root words.

Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who interpret it as referring to racist hatred directed at all "Semitic people" (i.e., those who speak Semitic languages, such as Arabs, Assyrians, and Arameans). This usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus (lit. 'antisemitism') was first used in print in Germany in 1879[17] as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit. 'Jew-hatred'),[18][19][20][21][22] and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone.[18][23][24]

And no, they're not the same ethnic group.

 

[Seanchaidh]

 

[Eacaraxe]

Completely agree. Despicable war crime dogshit, isn't it?

Quick reminder you also argued that because a country shelled an area held by an occupying invader, that country is therefore "asking for" its civilian population to be bombed by the invader. And that its the fault of the occupied when it happens.

Actually, my point was escalation is matched with escalation. Israel unequivocally sees itself as in a state of total war against the Palestinian people, and the highest-ranking Israeli officials in the country made zero bones about it. This was the direct consequence of the neo-fascist Israeli government playing perfectly into what is clearly Hamas' overarching strategic objective, which is exposing once and for all -- even to those who engage in denialist games and pigeon chess -- that Israel does in fact have a genocidal neo-fascist regime in power, waging total warfare against the Palestinian people.

That is a far cry from the Ukrainian government legitimizing neo-fascists within its ranks, going all-in to defend criminal neo-fascist paramilitaries from retaliation by Russia. Well-earned retaliation, by the way, as you once again seem to gloss over those paramilitaries' own ethnic cleansing of Russian civilians. And in doing so, escalated the conflict to a state of total warfare, and therefore has zero moral standing to complain when total warfare is executed.

You know, kind of how the Israelis cry foul when Hamas rockets a settlement or kidnaps a settler, despite those settlers living under arms in fortified settlements stolen from Palestinians, hand-in-hand with active duty military. You know, when Israelis find time to whine in between leveling entire city blocks, hospitals, and refugee camps. And just like Ukraine, the answer to this problem is deceptively simple: stop fucking electing neo-fascists.

If you can't spot the through-line in my reasoning there, I suggest you reconsider your capacity to tell "neo-fascist" from "not a neo-fascist". Now, are we done trying to thread-shit to win forum points, bringing vendettas from one thread into another? Which, by the way last I checked, was a direct violation of forum rules.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Then you've got a bone to pick with common usage because words mean things and those who split hairs in the first place. All I said was that it's the same ethnic group infighting, which it is, most Israelis and Palestinians look pretty much the same if you take the cultural artifacts and things like clothing out of the equation.

That doesn't mean much though. Nigeria has more than 300 recognized ethnic groups, most of whom look identical. An ethnic group is not a physiological description, it's not even based on genetics, it describes the way people divide themselves into distinct cultural groups. Cultural artifacts are extremely important to ethnicity. Ancestry and race can also be important to ethnicity, but only because these features often have cultural importance.

For a relatively extreme example, Hutus and Tutsis are two ethnic groups found in central Africa and have been involved in reciprocal genocides and campaigns of ethnic cleansing, most famously the Rwandan genocide. Often, these genocides have a racial basis, with the other group being regarded as racially inferior. The reality is that there's basically no genetic difference between Hutus and Tutsis. They've lived in the same regions and interbred with each other for literally thousands of years. The idea that they are distinct races was made up by Dutch explorers who likely met one relatively tall Tutsi dude and wrote a bunch of weird fanfiction.

 

[Seanchaidh]

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

CNN’s Wolf Blitzer spoke with international IDF spokesperson Richard Hecht about the Israeli strike carried out on the Jabalia refugee camp, and Blitzer asked whether the IDF was aware of the amount of Palestinian civilians in the area, despite the potential for a Hamas leader to be there as well. Hecht responds by saying: "This is the tragedy of war. We told them to move south."

They still just keep admitting it openly, and are still blanked, wtf kind of endemic mental illness is this. seeing how effortless dehumanisation is, how nonchalant the process of ignoring the pleas, if not entire existence of a violently exterminated human civilian population right in front of them is extremely frightening. And then after this, who's next? Which population gets to be slaughtered under their glassy eyed reactionless stares as they excuse or ignore every single atrocity after this.

 

[Thaluikhain]

They still just keep admitting it openly, and are still blanked, wtf kind of endemic mental illness is this. seeing how effortless dehumanisation is, how nonchalant the process of ignoring the pleas, if not entire existence of a violently exterminated human civilian population right in front of them is extremely frightening. And then after this, who's next? Which population gets to be slaughtered under their glassy eyed reactionless stares as they excuse or ignore every single atrocity after this.

Bedouin stand a good chance, but lets not forget Israelis who oppose those actions, the police are already going hard on it.

 

[Silvanus]

Actually, my point was escalation is matched with escalation. Israel unequivocally sees itself as in a state of total war against the Palestinian people, and the highest-ranking Israeli officials in the country made zero bones about it. This was the direct consequence of the neo-fascist Israeli government playing perfectly into what is clearly Hamas' overarching strategic objective, which is exposing once and for all -- even to those who engage in denialist games and pigeon chess -- that Israel does in fact have a genocidal neo-fascist regime in power, waging total warfare against the Palestinian people. That is a far cry from the Ukrainian government legitimizing neo-fascists within its ranks, going all-in to defend criminal neo-fascist paramilitaries from retaliation by Russia. Well-earned retaliation, by the way, as you once again seem to gloss over those paramilitaries' own ethnic cleansing of Russian civilians. And in doing so, escalated the conflict to a state of total warfare, and therefore has zero moral standing to complain when total warfare is executed.

You know, kind of how the Israelis cry foul when Hamas rockets a settlement or kidnaps a settler, despite those settlers living under arms in fortified settlements stolen from Palestinians, hand-in-hand with active duty military. You know, when Israelis find time to whine in between leveling entire city blocks, hospitals, and refugee camps. And just like Ukraine, the answer to this problem is deceptively simple: stop fucking electing neo-fascists.

Usually when one starts a paragraph with "that's a far cry from [...]", the paragraph doesn't then go on to outline a mess of propaganda that is roughly pretty equally applicable to both situations, with a few descriptors swapped out ("Neo-fascist" with "terrorist", since they serve the same purpose in the occupiers' propaganda). Identify "escalation" from the occupied party towards the occupying invader --> justify any and all massive, civilian-obliterating, genocidal retaliation, and blame the occupied party.

Just after watching weeks and weeks of despicable excuses and justifications for the massacres and tortures of civilians by an occupying force, the sheer bloody hypocrisy genuinely galled me. The actions of an occupied party against its invading occupying force never justify genocidal retaliation from that invader. Is it so difficult to be consistent and keep that as a matter of principle? It's a little like how concern about genocide towards a Muslim ethnic minority just melted away from the tankies as soon as the Chinese government was the one perpetrating it. They're anti-US, so suddenly all the genocidal propaganda about "re-education" camps was swallowed and parrotted.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

 

[Seanchaidh]

 

[Bedinsis]

[four images snipped out to make post smaller]

I assume those images either depict areas in Israel or Palestine. What is it? How is it relevant? I'm not sure what you want to say...

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

I assume those images either depict areas in Israel or Palestine. What is it? How is it relevant? I'm not sure what you want to say...

Could hazard a guess from some reverse image searching earlier for recent usage of them elsewhere to try make sense of it, but would prefer the poster put it into their own words first, if only to feed the curiousity of whether there's a reasonable way of wording it at all. For now, am going to assume a nobler motive like it is meant to show us how more tragic the bombing of civilians is when living spaces are so cramped and concentrated.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I assume those images either depict areas in Israel or Palestine. What is it? How is it relevant? I'm not sure what you want to say...

They're of a refugee camp.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Yes? And? Therefore?

What, do you want the "After" picture?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yes? And? Therefore?

What, do you want the "After" picture?

Nope. Just posting pictures.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Morbid humor