Ukraine

[Silvanus]

Yet more direct survivor (civilian) testimony of torture at the hands of Russian occupying forces, this time in Balakliia. Methods including electrical cables and hammers.

Electric cables, hammers and guns: Ukrainians tell of Russian torture

As prosecutors prepare war crimes case, victims reveal how they were beaten and made to dig own graves in Balakliia

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dalisclock]

Spoiler: ATACMS apparently did quite well.

 

[Kwak]

The UN Commission if inquiry has submitted its report to the General Assembly, detailing the findings of UN investigators: widespread targeting of civilians by Russia, torture, rape, and deportation of children to the Russian Federation.

UN finds further evidence of Russian war crimes in Ukraine

Report points to ‘wilful killing, torture, rape and other sexual violence, and the deportation of children to the Russian Federation’

www.theguardian.com

(Article links directly to the report itself as a PDF).

Can't wait for them to dismiss it as lies and the UN to do absolutely nothing about it and for China to veto the joint statement condemning the actions of Russia.

Lock Putin in a room with the videos and testimony being read out on repeat until he breaks.

 

[Dalisclock]

 

[Silvanus]

Since October 7th, Russian propaganda on social media has included faked/manipulated videos attempting to link Ukraine with either side of the Israel/Palestine conflict.

There doesn't seem to be consistency in the narrative: some fakes accuse Ukraine of exporting arms to Hamas, while the most recent one alleges that the IDF is recruiting from the AFU. Presumably the idea is just to throw everything and see what sticks.

In both cases the fakes consist of footage from other stories taken out of context, then overlaid with faked audio/ misleading captions.

Russians fabricate fake video about AFU warriors being recruited to IDF

A fabricated promotional video is being spread on YouTube — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

 

[Thaluikhain]

I like the idea that Ukraine has enough weapons and troops that it can send some off.

 

[gorfias]

I'm thinking Ukraine is a lost cause. I hear they have to grab any old fellow off the street and draft him into service as they're running out of people.
I guess you gotta laugh or your gotta cry.
"These guys showed up cause they heard there's going to be free soup"...

 

[Ag3ma]

I'm thinking Ukraine is a lost cause.

I think there's a lot of people who want us to believe that - nearly all of them are people who oppose or resent the USA and EU.

 

[gorfias]

I think there's a lot of people who want us to believe that - nearly all of them are people who oppose or resent the USA and EU.

Are you writing that you don't think the Ukraine effort is likely a lost cause? It always seemed odd to me to think they would ever amount to much resistance to Russia. At best, I thought Russia might decide it wasn't worth the effort.

A tale of the tape:

Country comparison: Russia / Ukraine

Ukraine and Russia compared: demography, Economy, energy, languages and further dimensions.

www.worlddata.info

 

[Ag3ma]

Are you writing that you don't think the Ukraine effort is likely a lost cause? It always seemed odd to me to think they would ever amount to much resistance to Russia. At best, I thought Russia might decide it wasn't worth the effort.

No, I don't think it's a lost cause. I don't think Ukraine can necessarily recover all its lost territories, but the West can certainly help it mitigate the loss, and overall the West should.

I think a lot of Western citizens do not trust, or are even outright hostile to, their own governments. This in ways makes some sense, because governments can do plenty of awful things that justifiably squander public trust. However, it can also be excessive, to the point where governments are suspected of anything or everything, or resisted even where governments' actions do align with national and general public interest. Much of the hostility to supporting Ukraine is thus a lot more about domestic politics than it is clear-sighted foreign policy.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Are you writing that you don't think the Ukraine effort is likely a lost cause? It always seemed odd to me to think they would ever amount to much resistance to Russia. At best, I thought Russia might decide it wasn't worth the effort.

"Not worth the effort" is how the Vietcong drove off the Americans, the Americans drove off the British, etc. Make it too much trouble, the other side finds some face saving solution and goes home. Much of Ukraine will likely be de-facto owned by Russia, but a lot less than all of it.

 

[Silvanus]

Russia launched the largest drone attack since the start of the war this morning: 75 kamikaze drones, mostly aimed at Kyiv, alongside at least one cruise missile. Ukrainian air defence claims to have downed 71 of them.

It did so on Holodomor Remembrance Day: marking the time the Soviet Union under Stalin weaponised mass starvation to crush Ukrainian aspirations of independence.

Russia launches most intensive drone attack since invasion began, says Ukraine

Five people injured in Kyiv attack in what could be start of winter campaign to destroy infrastructure• Russia-Ukraine war – latest news updates

www.theguardian.com

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Are you writing that you don't think the Ukraine effort is likely a lost cause? It always seemed odd to me to think they would ever amount to much resistance to Russia. At best, I thought Russia might decide it wasn't worth the effort.

This war has had one enormous, unrecoverable cost to Russia: Showing that its army truly is a paper tiger. The fact that this war is still going on, even with the West's help, is a kick in the nuts to Russia's stature. The humiliation of the world seeing Ukrainian farmers driving abandoned Russian military vehicles around had to have bruised Putin's ego and caused his allies to do some recalculation. All Putin has now is rattling the nuclear saber to try to frighten off more decisive action.

 

[Hades]

Are you writing that you don't think the Ukraine effort is likely a lost cause? It always seemed odd to me to think they would ever amount to much resistance to Russia. At best, I thought Russia might decide it wasn't worth the effort.

That might have been the case if Russia was a functioning country but it isn't. Its a bunch of robber barons owning and mismanaging a gas station masquerading as a country. In retrospect Russia being so inept and disasterly led shouldn't have come as a surprise.

 

[Seanchaidh]

It did so on Holodomor Remembrance Day: marking the time the Soviet Union under Stalin weaponised mass starvation to crush Ukrainian aspirations of independence.

How dare they disturb the sanctity of Nazi Propaganda Remembrance day

 

[Elijin]

How dare they disturb the sanctity of Nazi Propaganda Remembrance day

This should be good.

Elaborate.

 

[Thaluikhain]

In fairness, some believe that the Holodomor was a monstrous failure that resulted in massive amounts of deaths, rather than a planned genocide, but that this wasn't apparent until the fall of the Soviet Union and the west got access to records they'd previously been denied.

I do not know if that is true or not. To call it Nazi propaganda, however, is absurd.

 

[Silvanus]

How dare they disturb the sanctity of Nazi Propaganda Remembrance day

Are you denying that a famine occurred at all (as was the contemporary Soviet government line), or just that it was intentionally weaponised (the position the Soviets switched to after the outright denial became untenable)?

---

We knew beforehand that fulfilling state grain procurements in Ukraine would be difficult, but from what I have seen in the countryside we have greatly overdone it... I was in many raion villages and saw a considerable part of the countryside engulfed in famine [...] I once again request that you consider all methods and resources available for urgent food relief

"Even if collective farms met their targets, they were issued with second and sometimes third quotas [...] as a result the majority of collective farms were left without grain, without animal feed, without food for the disabled and teachers [...] in March and April there were hundreds of malnourished, starving and swollen people dying of hunger in every village.

I did not like the letters from Chubar and Petrovsky. In my opinion Ukraine has been given more than enough.

[...] from today the dispatch of goods for the villages of all regions of Ukraine shall cease until kolkhozy and individual peasants begin to honestly and conscientiously fulfill their duty to the working class and the Red Army by delivering grain.

How strange that "Nazi propaganda" includes the officials in charge of Ukrainian collectivisation privately begging Stalin for relief, and then Stalin and Molotov dismissing their concerns and ceasing aid. Strange!

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

In fairness, some believe that the Holodomor was a monstrous failure that resulted in massive amounts of deaths, rather than a planned genocide, but that this wasn't apparent until the fall of the Soviet Union and the west got access to records they'd previously been denied.

I do not know if that is true or not. To call it Nazi propaganda, however, is absurd.

That the Sowjet Government deliberately denied aid to the Ukraine during the great famine to quell dissent there is a popular theory, but I don't think there's quite enough evidence to go on to tout it as fact. During that famine a lot of rural regions have been thrown under the bus to assure sufficient supplies for industrial centers, especially those deemed essential for defending the country against the imminent invasion. I know the German government has, fairly recently, acknowledged it as genocide but we're not exactly unbiased in that regard. Germany is probably still one of the most dogmatically anti-communist countries in the western hemisphere, next to the USA.

 

[Satinavian]

Germany is probably still one of the most dogmatically anti-communist countries in the western hemisphere, next to the USA.

What ? Where did you get that idea ?