Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Ag3ma

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Well, they threatened to do so when they were about to lose the Yom Kippur War.
Sure. And if Israel is directly threatened by invasion and destruction, it would issue similar warnings against its assailant(s), and maybe even carry them out. But that's not the scenario you're describing.

Hamas started this war, and Hezbollah is backing them up.
I think it might be more accurate to say "Hamas triggered the recent intensification of this decades-long conflict."
 

Gergar12

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Cool, but in the meantime Israel could be dealt with, I care far more about them than the Houthis.
Again it seems like you don't care about countries that will face famines if free trade is stopped, but you do care about Gaza, You do realize people die from starvation too. You seem to have a selective morality when it comes to unnecessary deaths, I don't.
 

Gergar12

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Sure. And if Israel is directly threatened by invasion and destruction, it would issue similar warnings against its assailant(s), and maybe even carry them out. But that's not the scenario you're describing.



I think it might be more accurate to say "Hamas triggered the recent intensification of this decades-long conflict."
And if IRGC troops and Syrian troops invade Israel alongside Hezbollah in Lebanon via a military buildup.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Again it seems like you don't care about countries that will face famines if free trade is stopped, but you do care about Gaza, You do realize people die from starvation too. You seem to have a selective morality when it comes to unnecessary deaths, I don't.
Then it sounds like we should be stopping Israel now. Because your selective morality is to enable a genocide. It doesn't help that you're also talking out your ass because the Houthis have been trying to target Israel with their raids.


Your repeating the fun neolib talking point that profits are more important than people by trying to cloak those profits as humanist. In reality, whatever problems the Houthis have (and they aren't friends), they're taking one good stance and it's very telling that it's that stance that gets rebuked.
 

Gergar12

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Then it sounds like we should be stopping Israel now. Because your selective morality is to enable a genocide. It doesn't help that you're also talking out your ass because the Houthis have been trying to target Israel with their raids.


Your repeating the fun neolib talking point that profits are more important than people by trying to cloak those profits as humanist. In reality, whatever problems the Houthis have (and they aren't friends), they're taking one good stance and it's very telling that it's that stance that gets rebuked.
I don’t like the Israeli carpet bombing Gaza, but your own link states that Energy going to India is being targeted I guess I am unaware of what the Indian people have to do with the massacres in Gaza.

Also the best way to stop Israel would be for Biden to talk them down when the emotional momentum is lower. Because may I preference that they have a nuclear triad stronger than North Korea there is no military solution to Israel only a diplomatic one.

Also I care less about France getting MacBook pros from Asia then I do about things like fertilizers, foodstuffs not getting from Ukraine for example or Russia ironically enough or even Europe. Plus let’s say they raise the prices of these essentials guess what happens when food prices increase there is wars at worst and starvation at best.
 

Ag3ma

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And if IRGC troops and Syrian troops invade Israel alongside Hezbollah in Lebanon via a military buildup.
This is ludicrous.

Syria's still in a state of civil war, crippled and with its military degraded well below even its pre-civil war modest capabilities. Iran can't maintain any significant military force at the Israeli border because it doesn't have the logistics. Lebanon is weak and a basket case, with Hezbollah not even a formal fighting force.

I have no idea what it is that makes people dream up weird scenarios to make us think the apocalypse is about to occur.
 
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Gergar12

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This is ludicrous.

Syria's still in a state of civil war, crippled and with its military degraded well below even its pre-civil war modest capabilities. Iran can't maintain any significant military force at the Israeli border because it doesn't have the logistics. Lebanon is weak and a basket case, with Hezbollah not even a formal fighting force.

I have no idea what it is that makes people dream up weird scenarios to make us think the apocalypse is about to occur.
Ah yes, Iran which has sent missiles to damn near every Shia group in the region, arms them, funds them, and has fought a war in Syria has no logistics. Also, everyone says the same thing about Russia as they do Syria, in reality, armed groups that fight and win gain valuable experience. As for Hezbollah, they could easily form the infantry complement of a war to Tel Aviv.
 

crimson5pheonix

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I don’t like the Israeli carpet bombing Gaza, but your own link states that Energy going to India is being targeted I guess I am unaware of what the Indian people have to do with the massacres in Gaza.

Also the best way to stop Israel would be for Biden to talk them down when the emotional momentum is lower. Because may I preference that they have a nuclear triad stronger than North Korea there is no military solution to Israel only a diplomatic one.

Also I care less about France getting MacBook pros from Asia then I do about things like fertilizers, foodstuffs not getting from Ukraine for example or Russia ironically enough or even Europe. Plus let’s say they raise the prices of these essentials guess what happens when food prices increase there is wars at worst and starvation at best.
Their military efforts are dependent on US donation and support, pull the support, it's the first and easiest step. And stop talking about it like the Houthis are singlehandedly destroying global trade, doom mongering your militarist fantasy isn't impressive or persuasive. Play less Modern Warfare games.
 

Gergar12

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Their military efforts are dependent on US donation and support, pull the support, it's the first and easiest step. And stop talking about it like the Houthis are singlehandedly destroying global trade, doom mongering your militarist fantasy isn't impressive or persuasive. Play less Modern Warfare games.
"Between 10 to 15% of the world's shipping goes through this area."

.

So while they may not be destroying it as a whole(But they are doing damage), they are setting a nasty precedent that will make other areas like the Malacca Straits for example also have the possibility of some jackass Islamist or other faction blockading it and getting people killed in the short, and long run.

Also, I hate COD, I never played the MW3 or MW2 Remake, and I couldn't bring myself to finish the first one. It was pretty cringe.
 

crimson5pheonix

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"Between 10 to 15% of the world's shipping goes through this area."

.

So while they may not be destroying it as a whole(But they are doing damage), they are setting a nasty precedent that will make other areas like the Malacca Straits for example also have the possibility of some jackass Islamist or other faction blockading it and getting people killed in the short, and long run.

Also, I hate COD, I never played the MW3 or MW2 Remake, and I couldn't bring myself to finish the first one. It was pretty cringe.
So they are disrupting what is that, 1% (generously) of 10% of global traffic? Oh wow, I'm so worried. You're really convinced me they're a menace and need to stop trying to stop an ongoing genocide.
 

Gergar12

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So they are disrupting what is that, 1% (generously) of 10% of global traffic? Oh wow, I'm so worried. You're really convinced me they're a menace and need to stop trying to stop an ongoing genocide.
And I guess if you were around in 2010 or 2014 with the Republicans winning both houses of Congress you would argue the same thing. (It's just Republicans participating in democracy, who cares if they win both houses, they haven't won the presidency, and most governments are still democracies including the US)

Every action has consequences. Being the starter of a shitstorm (End of free trade) isn't a good idea. It's like sanctioning Yemen for example and having the Saudis invade it or not recognizing the post-Pol Pot Government installed by Vietnam. First comes the action, second comes the short-term consequences(likely people dying), and third comes the actual long-term consequences(More people dying, proxy wars, famines, closer encounters, oftentimes large black swan events that no one can predict would happen but happened anyway)

Think about what free trade means in terms of sociology. It's just that a social interaction. I want mangos you want corn let's barter with a defined means of exchange. Free trade is a sign of a healthy society, community, and an open society. Look I get it everyone especially people right now thinks that less community, more atomization, less toxicity, fewer red flags, fewer third places, less relationships of all types are great. But that is horrible for human society, and mental health, and is the reason we have so many suicides, deaths of despair, deaths from poor diets, deaths from being homeless, and deaths from mass shootings. It takes a a village to raise a child as it has for thousands of years, it takes a community to be a society. If you destroy the economic links of society and the world you will be left with a world of despair, war, deaths, and famines.

If you destroy free trade in hopes, that is all that it is. The hope that Israel will yield, when time, and time again economic warfare has failed to do anything but destroy, and cause more conflict, it's great in the short term at reducing a country's power, but it's pretty bad at solving problems in the long term, and eventually we will have to use methods that work like trade, economic ties, and diplomacy after we are done shooting each other unless you want the war to go on longer like in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The Houthis, Hezbollah, and Iran could in theory kill a hundred thousand Israelis right now if they launched every single missile that they could to hit Israel. And I am sure that the US could do the same but worse to Iran, Hezbollah, and the Houthis. But would it make the world a safer place against genocide to have a regional war no, would it stop Israel from dropping 2000 lb bombs on Gaza City and Khan Younis no, and would it cause the US to leave the Middle East, likely not they would likey get more involved.

The only way we are solving this is when Biden and Blinken get through to the Israeli Government that the longer this goes, the worse it will get for Israel, and the less the US will back Israel. Which Biden is likely doing in backroom talks he pulled the Ford AIrcraft carrier away to de-escalate.

Plus blaming every Western country for Israel's carpeting bombing of Gaza is like blaming every teacher in China for that one kindergarten teacher who did an open-hand slap of me and other children at a pre-K school in Southern China. The same logic occurs with mass shootings. Shooting people doesn't solve problems in the long run. Even for police, it should be a tool of last resort a lesson most cops in America are having to learn. It's like blaming every single liberal for drone strikes in the Obama era, he's not a god, and he's a president in a republic with checks and balances and he's human he had a warped economic view brought by the University of Chicago.

Edit: I will explain more on a topic later on.
 
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crimson5pheonix

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And I guess if you were around in 2010 or 2014 with the Republicans winning both houses of Congress you would argue the same thing. (It's just Republicans participating in democracy, who cares if they win both houses, they haven't won the presidency, and most governments are still democracies including the US)
An astute observer would point out A) both houses of congress make up 33% of the federal government, not a fraction of a fraction of the government and B) Obama was shit and wanted to do that shit anyway.

Everything else is fearmongering and not particularly interesting points, it reads like every chickenhawk justifying their war crime of choice. The Houthis aren't destroying free trade, they're applying economic pressure to one country, one country that needs to have economic pressure applied to. The US is doing far more to "harm free trade" than the Houthis ever could with Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea. Get off r/neolib, they are actually cancerous people
 

Gergar12

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An astute observer would point out A) both houses of congress make up 33% of the federal government, not a fraction of a fraction of the government and B) Obama was shit and wanted to do that shit anyway.

Everything else is fearmongering and not particularly interesting points, it reads like every chickenhawk justifying their war crime of choice. The Houthis aren't destroying free trade, they're applying economic pressure to one country, one country that needs to have economic pressure applied to. The US is doing far more to "harm free trade" than the Houthis ever could with Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea. Get off r/neolib, they are actually cancerous people
Yes, but they control the creation of new laws, judges can't be appointed without them, Supreme Court justices need their approval, and long-term international treaties can't be made without them. And every republican congressman is someone who can influence America via the news, and drive it further into a polarized hellscape like this year will be.

But yes the truth and levelheaded thinking is very boring, it's why I didn't read a lot of the Neoliberal institutionalism papers I was assigned. The realism papers were more about the stuff that interested me like F-22s for example, but they are too old and outdated. The constructivism papers sucked were too dense to the laymen, too abstract, and not at all relatable to the real world. My economics assignments/reading papers and doing equations made no sense in an interconnected world and were quite outdated. It made sense for a single business, and the econometrics gave in data analysis skills and were generally good.

Also to know which ships are headed to Israel, and which are headed just to Sudan you need intelligence you know the type that warned Ukraine about a Russian invasion. You need satellites in space either by renting them or your own the Houthis are short on very precise optical ones, and likely can't afford Russian or Chinese commercial ones because they are fighting in a civil war against the other factions in the civil war. You also need capable human intelligence which the Houthis also don't have enough to precision strike which merchant vessel is headed to which port, the US is the only one who knows.

Again where is your evidence that they are just targeting Israel and the West, India is a part of BRICS, Russia is in CSTO, SCO, and BRICS, and both THEIR ships were targeted.

Venezuela and Cuba shouldn't have sanctions. Cuba's sanctions are a Cold War relic meant to both appease the Cuban ethnic enclave of parts of Miami and to counter the fact that Cuba could in theory be used to invade the US via Florida, but I already mentioned sanctions don't work. Venezuela has poor economic policies, but it's their country, and if they want to have crappy policies I don't think they should be sanctioned, plus I think Biden overlooked the fact that they stole multinational oil companies' assets and is negotiating a deal to stop the sanctions. Plus Venezuela's oil output is lower which you may agree to but it's been bad for the people there who need oil revenue for social programs.

North Korea should never have existed, and South Korea should have won the Korean War based on the fact that a UN-sanctioned intervention was created because they invaded the South first, and fascist dictatorships are still fascist if they call themselves a different name. Plus it's a poorly run country, they could trade with China, and the Kims are the worst example of a supposed left-wing dictatorship.

Edit: most of this is like Journal articles, YouTube videos by sites like Covert Cabal, and this book. Not Reddit Neolib

Edit better link.

 
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Gergar12

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Correct. But the end of free trade isn't remotely on the table.
"Between 10 to 15% of the world's shipping goes through this area."

Shooting at cargo ships on a narrow chokepoint incentivizes other countries to do the same.
 

Thaluikhain

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"Between 10 to 15% of the world's shipping goes through this area."

Shooting at cargo ships on a narrow chokepoint incentivizes other countries to do the same.
Even if they could somehow stop that 10-15% (which they can't), and they didn't go via another route (which they would), that's still not an end to free-trade. It's a local disruption. There's various places in the world you don't send your cargo through, that hasn't ended the world.
 
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Gergar12

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Even if they could somehow stop that 10-15% (which they can't), and they didn't go via another route (which they would), that's still not an end to free-trade. It's a local disruption. There's various places in the world you don't send your cargo through, that hasn't ended the world.
Like I stated it's a precedent being set, some jackass in another country could start by doing the same thing such as Iran in the Straits of Homez as has happened in the past due to the Iraq-Iran War with Saudi Tankers. Plus it's a shitty thing to end 10 to 15% of trade or even to raise food prices for that region of the world where for example in Sudan where there is famine that is projected to happen or Eygpt which has 100 million people that need the revenue, trade from the Suez Canal. Plus Ukrainian grains go through the Bosphorus then down the Red Sea to countries in Africa and South Asia.


https://www.reuters.com/markets/com...venues-down-40-due-houthi-attacks-2024-01-11/

 

Thaluikhain

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Like I stated it's a precedent being set, some jackass in another country could start by doing the same thing such as Iran in the Straits of Homez as has happened in the past due to the Iraq-Iran War with Saudi Tankers.
As you say, this has happened in the past, and did not lead to an end of international trade. The submarine piracy of the early 20th century is all but forgotten, as that also didn't end trade.

A local disruption is still a problem, yes, but the world has quietly ignored what Israel has done to Palestine for years. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
 
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Gergar12

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As you say, this has happened in the past, and did not lead to an end of international trade. The submarine piracy of the early 20th century is all but forgotten, as that also didn't end trade.

A local disruption is still a problem, yes, but the world has quietly ignored what Israel has done to Palestine for years. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
But if the Houthis can raise the price of trade, and stop 75%-90% or so of ships from going through that strait, and Iran can stop trade from the Strait of Hormuz, then what you telling people in power is...

I can stop or impede free trade for any reason because the Houthis and Iran want us to think that this is going to stop the Israels from bombing Gaza(It's not going to stop, it will just make them more entrenched) when Israel is harming their economy, and doesn't care by forcing their reserves to fight in Gaza and Northern Israel.

.

No snow pile believes it's the main pivotal actor behind the accumulation that eventually leads to an avalanche.

Plus where were the missiles before October 7, where were the missiles and drone attacks by the Houthis in 2014 when Israel also invaded Gaza?

They will continue to bomb the Red Sea Cargo ships even after Israel ends their bombings. They are a terrorist group that needs to advertise their violence to get more support to appease more radical factions.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Yes, but they control the creation of new laws, judges can't be appointed without them, Supreme Court justices need their approval, and long-term international treaties can't be made without them. And every republican congressman is someone who can influence America via the news, and drive it further into a polarized hellscape like this year will be.
Congrats on coming around to my point? Trying to compare disruption of a third of the government to Houthi's impact on global trade is farcical?

But yes the truth and levelheaded thinking is very boring, it's why I didn't read a lot of the Neoliberal institutionalism papers I was assigned. The realism papers were more about the stuff that interested me like F-22s for example, but they are too old and outdated. The constructivism papers sucked were too dense to the laymen, too abstract, and not at all relatable to the real world. My economics assignments/reading papers and doing equations made no sense in an interconnected world and were quite outdated. It made sense for a single business, and the econometrics gave in data analysis skills and were generally good.

Also to know which ships are headed to Israel, and which are headed just to Sudan you need intelligence you know the type that warned Ukraine about a Russian invasion. You need satellites in space either by renting them or your own the Houthis are short on very precise optical ones, and likely can't afford Russian or Chinese commercial ones because they are fighting in a civil war against the other factions in the civil war. You also need capable human intelligence which the Houthis also don't have enough to precision strike which merchant vessel is headed to which port, the US is the only one who knows.

Again where is your evidence that they are just targeting Israel and the West, India is a part of BRICS, Russia is in CSTO, SCO, and BRICS, and both THEIR ships were targeted.

Venezuela and Cuba shouldn't have sanctions. Cuba's sanctions are a Cold War relic meant to both appease the Cuban ethnic enclave of parts of Miami and to counter the fact that Cuba could in theory be used to invade the US via Florida, but I already mentioned sanctions don't work. Venezuela has poor economic policies, but it's their country, and if they want to have crappy policies I don't think they should be sanctioned, plus I think Biden overlooked the fact that they stole multinational oil companies' assets and is negotiating a deal to stop the sanctions. Plus Venezuela's oil output is lower which you may agree to but it's been bad for the people there who need oil revenue for social programs.

North Korea should never have existed, and South Korea should have won the Korean War based on the fact that a UN-sanctioned intervention was created because they invaded the South first, and fascist dictatorships are still fascist if they call themselves a different name. Plus it's a poorly run country, they could trade with China, and the Kims are the worst example of a supposed left-wing dictatorship.

Edit: most of this is like Journal articles, YouTube videos by sites like Covert Cabal, and this book. Not Reddit Neolib

Edit better link.

Words words words that mean nothing and aren't important to the topic. Based Houthis made Israel cry. The Houthis can be and are despicable right-wing reactionaries, but they accomplished something meaningful by disrupting trade to the one country that needs it's trade disrupted right now. None of this global trade nonsense holds water, Israel's trade was hurt because that's who the Houthis were targeting and for that crime alone we bombed them.