Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Gergar12

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As you say, this has happened in the past, and did not lead to an end of international trade. The submarine piracy of the early 20th century is all but forgotten, as that also didn't end trade.

A local disruption is still a problem, yes, but the world has quietly ignored what Israel has done to Palestine for years. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
I wouldn't agree with the term ignore. Israel has been at the center of many Arab heads of state, The Turkish government, UNGA attention, attention from journalists(Video, credentialed, and or freelance), and the reason they are getting this much attention is not because of the left, it's because liberals in power are paying attention to Gaza.
 

Thaluikhain

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I wouldn't agree with the term ignore. Israel has been at the center of many Arab heads of state, The Turkish government, UNGA attention, attention from journalists(Video, credentialed, and or freelance), and the reason they are getting this much attention is not because of the left, it's because liberals in power are paying attention to Gaza.
Ok, perhaps ignore was a poor choice of words, but Israel's actions have been tolerated, or supported, by at least most of those in a position to do anything.
 

Gergar12

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Congrats on coming around to my point? Trying to compare disruption of a third of the government to Houthi's impact on global trade is farcical?



Words words words that mean nothing and aren't important to the topic. Based Houthis made Israel cry. The Houthis can be and are despicable right-wing reactionaries, but they accomplished something meaningful by disrupting trade to the one country that needs it's trade disrupted right now. None of this global trade nonsense holds water, Israel's trade was hurt because that's who the Houthis were targeting and for that crime alone we bombed them.
So are you making the argument that the Houthis may cause famines in say Sudan, or Egypt reducing social programs, or Ukrainian foodstuffs, and fertilizers not getting to global majority countries is worth hurting Israel over its bombing of Gaza? It sounds like you are playing favorites with which global majority of people you are endorsing getting harmed.

So does that mean when I shoot a white supremacist who is running towards a Jewish person or Arab person with an ax, but a crowd is in front of me I should just shoot through the crowd? You would endorse that. Because that sounds really shitty. You sound like Bush Jr when he was talking about collateral damage.

Edit: Grammar
 

Gergar12

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Ok, perhaps ignore was a poor choice of words, but Israel's actions have been tolerated, or supported, by at least most of those in a position to do anything.
Tolerated???? Most countries in the region do not have nuclear weapons, do you want Egypt to throw its troops at Israel, and get their troops killed by Israeli air, and ground forces if they lose, and if they win and almost destroy Israel for Cairo and the Nile River Basin to get nuked by Israeli Nuclear Triads WMDs. Or Turkey who would be sanctioned, kicked out of NATO, and would also lose or possibly have Ankara get nuked if Israel loses. It's impossible to target Israel with military means due to their second-strike nuclear capabilities.

The real solution to this is not to boycott McDonald's, Starbucks, etc either. It's to boycott Israeli Startups and other companies and vote in primaries like the democratic ones. I don't even know if non-Israeli corporate actors can do anything given the fact that BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street back Israel and they share in most if not all of the S&P500.

So don't buy that SodaStream, and lookup this list.

 

Thaluikhain

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Tolerated???? Most countries in the region do not have nuclear weapons, do you want Egypt to throw its troops at Israel, and get their troops killed by Israeli air, and ground forces if they lose, and if they win and almost destroy Israel for Cairo and the Nile River Basin to get nuked by Israeli Nuclear Triads WMDs. Or Turkey who would be sanctioned, kicked out of NATO, and would also lose or possibly have Ankara get nuked if Israel loses. It's impossible to target Israel with military means due to their second-strike nuclear capabilities.
They aren't the countries who are in a position to do anything, I meant places like the US giving them massive amounts of weapons.
 

crimson5pheonix

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So are you making the argument that the Houthis may cause famines in say Sudan, or Egypt reducing social programs, or Ukrainian foodstuffs, and fertilizers not getting to global majority countries is worth hurting Israel over its bombing of Gaza? It sounds like you are playing favorites with which global majority of people you are endorsing getting harmed.
No I'm not because contending that the Houthis are going to do that by stopping a handful of Israeli ships is absolutely bonkers, it's the unserious fantasies of bad videogame writers and neolib warhawks. You might as well say the Taliban are going to destroy the silk road. Your point is completely unhinged and divorced from reality.
 

Gergar12

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They aren't the countries who are in a position to do anything, I meant places like the US giving them massive amounts of weapons.
If we don't give them weapons, the French, and very likely the Germans will. France will sell to anyone.


No I'm not because contending that the Houthis are going to do that by stopping a handful of Israeli ships is absolutely bonkers, it's the unserious fantasies of bad videogame writers and neolib warhawks. You might as well say the Taliban are going to destroy the silk road. Your point is completely unhinged and divorced from reality.
Why won't you answer my posts with actual credible evidence, your own posts point to vessels headed to India, and a Russian oil tanker being stopped. Those aren't Israeli vessels.

There is no Silk Road, did you mean the Belt, and Road initiative by China which Italy has dropped out of, and which the Taliban agree with more than the Italians?
 

crimson5pheonix

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If we don't give them weapons, the French, and very likely the Germans will. France will sell to anyone.




Why won't you answer my posts with actual credible evidence, your own posts point to vessels headed to India, and a Russian oil tanker being stopped. Those aren't Israeli vessels.

There is no Silk Road, did you mean the Belt, and Road initiative by China which Italy has dropped out of, and which the Taliban agree with more than the Italians?
No I meant the road because that's the level of fantasy we're operating on. Your own post was that the straight is responsible for 10%-15% of world trade, the Houthis got like 30 ships in a few months, and trying to say the Houthis are going to kill India by doing this. I'd be trying to prove a negative, instead you should be trying to prove that the Houthis are going to kill all these people you say they're going to kill.
 

Thaluikhain

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If we don't give them weapons, the French, and very likely the Germans will. France will sell to anyone.

They will sell, not give. Ok, yes, they'd end up with weapons, but it'd be their own economy that'd have to face the cost of their wars. Giving Israel US dollars that can only be spent on US weapons is a terrible idea.
 
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Gergar12

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They will sell, not give. Ok, yes, they'd end up with weapons, but it'd be their own economy that'd have to face the cost of their wars. Giving Israel US dollars that can only be spent on US weapons is a terrible idea.
The Israeli economy right now is a wartime economy. Not a peacetime economy. And they have proven to be adept at finding weapons even when the US won't sell them any. Lookup 1945.

No I meant the road because that's the level of fantasy we're operating on. Your own post was that the straight is responsible for 10%-15% of world trade, the Houthis got like 30 ships in a few months, and trying to say the Houthis are going to kill India by doing this. I'd be trying to prove a negative, instead you should be trying to prove that the Houthis are going to kill all these people you say they're going to kill.
You do realize that a container going from 2000 dollars to 4000 dollars means increased food prices for everyone in the region. Times that by .9 since 90% of ships have had to go around Africa and we are looking at transportation costs that will skyrocket the costs of food. Do you eat food? You care if people in Sudan or Egypt eat food.

 

Thaluikhain

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The Israeli economy right now is a wartime economy. Not a peacetime economy. And they have proven to be adept at finding weapons even when the US won't sell them any. Lookup 1945.
1945 was rather different. Anyway, I'm not saying that Israeli could not produce it's own weapons, or buy from elsewhere, obviously it does both. But not giving them free weapons systems while they are using them to commit genocide should be a no-brainer.
 
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Gergar12

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1945 was rather different. Anyway, I'm not saying that Israeli could not produce it's own weapons, or buy from elsewhere, obviously it does both. But not giving them free weapons systems while they are using them to commit genocide should be a no-brainer.
It means the US has a veto on the part of Israel's military action. I would rather they have that then create another non-US align rogue state with a nuclear triad.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The Israeli economy right now is a wartime economy. Not a peacetime economy. And they have proven to be adept at finding weapons even when the US won't sell them any. Lookup 1945.



You do realize that a container going from 2000 dollars to 4000 dollars means increased food prices for everyone in the region. Times that by .9 since 90% of ships have had to go around Africa and we are looking at transportation costs that will skyrocket the costs of food. Do you eat food? You care if people in Sudan or Egypt eat food.

While rates have spiked, they remain far below 2021's pandemic-fueled record highs of $14,000 per 40-foot container for Asia to North Europe and the Mediterranean and $22,000 for Asia to North America's East Coast.
Hyperbole, sit down warhawk.
 

Gergar12

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Hyperbole, sit down warhawk.
Ah yes the great non-famines during Covid.

 

crimson5pheonix

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Ah yes the great non-famines during Covid.

And notably many more multiples of price than what the Houthis are theoretically causing.

And we come back to the original point, focus on Israel, not the Houthis.
 

Ag3ma

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Ah yes, Iran which has sent missiles to damn near every Shia group in the region, arms them, funds them, and has fought a war in Syria has no logistics. Also, everyone says the same thing about Russia as they do Syria, in reality, armed groups that fight and win gain valuable experience. As for Hezbollah, they could easily form the infantry complement of a war to Tel Aviv.
It has no logistics capable of supporting significant military effort at that distance, no.

Imagine you want to deploy a decent-sized modern military force - say 10,000 troops with AFVs, air support, etc. This requires huge amounts of material. Food, complex arms, spare parts, fuel. Once operations start, consumables and replacements are needed at a high rate. In WW2, a single division in action was estimated to require over 700 tons of stuff a day, and likely it requires more now due to increased complexity of weaponry.

Iran is backing up regional allies with far less. Hamas for instance is (estimated) under 20,000 strong, and doesn't really have much that's more complex than small arms - it cobbles together homemade rockets and other devices, and Iran doesn't have to supply a lot of military needs like food, medicine, etc. Years of smuggling allow these guerrilla forces enough to stockpile for one offensive, after which they will be mostly quiescent for months-years. It's really fucking hard to get stuff to them, and so once they've shot a bolt, it's a long time to the next one. It does not supply them at anything like the rate full, ongoing, conventional warfare would require.

Next, remember, Iran can only get anything to Syria by going through Turkey or Iraq, or even less favourable routes. If it wants to supply a significant Iranian military force for operations against Israel, it has to ask permission from these countries to run a supply line through their territory. It is not going to get that permission. As above, smuggling is not going to cut it.
 
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Gergar12

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And notably many more multiples of price than what the Houthis are theoretically causing.

And we come back to the original point, focus on Israel, not the Houthis.
Again rising food prices are bad, and anti-free trade stopped precedents are bad.

As for Israel, they are undeterrable, unless you can wave a magic wand, and make it so that Likud will lose their election if they don't leave Gaza. When a country has nukes they are free to do a lot of bad shit. That is why the US doesn't want Iran to have nukes either, and why Kennedy didn't want Israel to have them. This will either be solved with diplomacy or not at all.

It has no logistics capable of supporting significant military effort at that distance, no.

Imagine you want to deploy a decent-sized modern military force - say 10,000 troops with AFVs, air support, etc. This requires huge amounts of material. Food, complex arms, spare parts, fuel. Once operations start, consumables and replacements are needed at a high rate. In WW2, a single division in action was estimated to require over 700 tons of stuff a day, and likely it requires more now due to increased complexity of weaponry.

Iran is backing up regional allies with far less. Hamas for instance is (estimated) under 20,000 strong, and doesn't really have much that's more complex than small arms - it cobbles together homemade rockets and other devices, and Iran doesn't have to supply a lot of military needs like food, medicine, etc. Years of smuggling allow these guerrilla forces enough to stockpile for one offensive, after which they will be mostly quiescent for months-years. It's really fucking hard to get stuff to them, and so once they've shot a bolt, it's a long time to the next one. It does not supply them at anything like the rate full, ongoing, conventional warfare would require.

Next, remember, Iran can only get anything to Syria by going through Turkey or Iraq, or even less favourable routes. If it wants to supply a significant Iranian military force for operations against Israel, it has to ask permission from these countries to run a supply line through their territory. It is not going to get that permission. As above, smuggling is not going to cut it.
No, they can, Iran is quite in control of a Shia crescent from Iran to Iraq to Syria to Lebanon, and even somewhat Yemen. They could very much force Iraq to use their land, and they could send MBTs, and other armored units to Syria of course it would cost lots of money and other resources, but they could do it alongside Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq which all have militias loyal to and getting paid by Iran.

 

Ag3ma

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They could very much force Iraq to use their land, and they could send MBTs, and other armored units to Syria
Gibberish.

Stop and think what it means for every country bordering Iraq if Iraq allowed itself to become a military highway for Iran. Saudi Arabia and others will move heaven and earth to prevent that. Turkey would likewise be furious - it has its own eye on regional power. Iraq will know what the likely cost of that is, as it is internally fragile: not least the possibility of another civil war. Plus that for Iraq to let Iranian military units cross would effectively make Iraq a legitimate target for anyone wanting to prevent such convoys.
 

Gergar12

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Gibberish.

Stop and think what it means for every country bordering Iraq if Iraq allowed itself to become a military highway for Iran. Saudi Arabia and others will move heaven and earth to prevent that. Turkey would likewise be furious - it has its own eye on regional power. Iraq will know what the likely cost of that is, as it is internally fragile: not least the possibility of another civil war. Plus that for Iraq to let Iranian military units cross would effectively make Iraq a legitimate target for anyone wanting to prevent such convoys.
Saudi Arabia couldn't even fight off the Houthis on their territory. The UAE was the real MVP of that war. Turkey would be mad but there is a chance they wouldn't care given the fact that they chose S-400 from Russia over the F-35 and their wildcard status. Iraq's majority Shia population is in firm control of most of the country minus the northern regions where the Kurds live.

'Iraq a legitimate target for anyone wanting to prevent such convoys'

The highways and roads maybe but the US is trying to save bombs for Taiwan, and China so while they would get involved it wouldn't be as big as you think.

Also, they could just hide the tanks and logistics in Cargo ships, and Trucks like Wagner.