The Thread where I air my grievances with the Assassins' Creed series SPOILERS EVERYWHERE

Agema

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I think the official line is that they wanted to convey class and English is easier to do that then French or some such. Except they pretty much failed at that too, especially for Napolean who was pretty much looked down upon because he was Coriscan and not "French", but speaks like everyone else.
Napoleon quite possibly worked on his accent to make it sound less regional. Many do when they want to fit into the upper classes.

It's arguably a good design choice to can French accents for the English language version. If the underlying assumption is they are all speaking French, then the dialogue can not just be put in English but also converted into representative Anglophone accents/dialects too. This is, for instance, how dubbing generally works. As the average English-speaker isn't going to be able to distinguish the significance of accents and dialects of a foreign language, using recognisable equivalents from their own is preferable to convey social characteristics.

Where they might want to retain French-accented English are games with multinational characters, where it becomes more desirable to stress someone's Frenchness rather than anything else.
 

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Napoleon quite possibly worked on his accent to make it sound less regional. Many do when they want to fit into the upper classes.

It's arguably a good design choice to can French accents for the English language version. If the underlying assumption is they are all speaking French, then the dialogue can not just be put in English but also converted into representative Anglophone accents/dialects too. This is, for instance, how dubbing generally works. As the average English-speaker isn't going to be able to distinguish the significance of accents and dialects of a foreign language, using recognisable equivalents from their own is preferable to convey social characteristics.

Where they might want to retain French-accented English are games with multinational characters, where it becomes more desirable to stress someone's Frenchness rather than anything else.
I wouldn't have minded the French accents, or just having a dub done in French. Ubiosft is a French studio, it should be a walk in the tulips for them. They're having Japanese dub for Shadows, and they did a similar thing for one of their previous titles. I believe it was Odyssey. So it wouldn't have been that hard; especially on 8th gen consoles and modern PCs at that point.
 
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Agema

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Napoleon quite possibly worked on his accent to make it sound less regional. Many do when they want to fit into the upper classes.
FYI, I just looked it up (because that's the sort of person I am): it is said Napoleon retained some degree of Corsican accent to his death, although it became much milder over the course of his life. Also, apparently, he was poor at spelling.
 
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CriticalGaming

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As much as I hate DEI garbage and wokeism in video games, I really don't have any problem with the direction they have taken with Shadows.

AC games have used the male/female protagonist for a while now and what Shadows is doing is even cooler because each character clearly has a different story arch with them. In Odyssey Alexios and Kassandra have basically the same story with only slight tweeks to swap between them. But here you have two clearly different perspectives and events that carry the characters through.

My big question is whether you'll have to play as both during the same playthrough and it just swaps back and forth between them, or if you choose who you want to be and that character's playthrough will be completely different than the other one.

The fact that they made the samurai black is just a play on obscure real history that is par for the course with AC games, so what's everyone's fucking problem? Not to mention your other character option is not only Japanese but also a woman so she gets to check the minority and the strong female lead box. These characters should be wins for everyone, I guess it just shows you can't stop the internet from being the internet.
 

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As much as I hate DEI garbage and wokeism in video games, I really don't have any problem with the direction they have taken with Shadows.
Can we stop using woke or DEI as insults. You do realize racist people and sexists people use that as pejoratives or twisted into something it was never supposed to be?

Watch this and learn something.



The fact that they made the samurai black is just a play on obscure real history that is par for the course with AC games, so what's everyone's fucking problem? Not to mention your other character option is not only Japanese but also a woman so she gets to check the minority and the strong female lead box. These characters should be wins for everyone, I guess it just shows you can't stop the internet from being the internet.
Because not everyone wants to see black or minorities in lead roles; especially black people. There are people out there that still see us as second class citizens or less than human. if we're not victims nor stereotypes, they hate us. They hate us being seen as actual people. Watch the previous double toast video I have in my previous post. Korean will give you all the answers you need. There are people who are racist and don't want to admit it or try to sidestep the issue and hide behind "historical accuracy". These are white people (mainly men) who don't wanna play as a black man, and pick something that is not at the "bottom of the totem pole".
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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My big question is whether you'll have to play as both during the same playthrough and it just swaps back and forth between them, or if you choose who you want to be and that character's playthrough will be completely different than the other one.
The descriptions I'm seeing are pretty much exactly what Syndicate was: you play as two people, can choose who to play as for most of it, but there are missions specifically for each character.
Ultimately I didn't like how that worked out in Syndicate because they gave the cool missions to the male and had him go around messin' shit up, then had the goody-two-shoes nerdy sister cleaning up his mess. It made the story predictable while adhering to tired tropes. I hope they come up with something better for Shadows.

One thing that does give me hope is that it seems the two Shadows protagonists will play differently. In Syndicate, the marketing made it seem like Jacob was the bruiser while Evie was the stealthy, but they played the same. They only a couple of different skills in the higher end of the skill trees and at that point it makes practically no difference. I even gave myself an extra objective to see if I could beat the fighting mini-games with Evie and do that sneaky optional objectives with Jacob and of course I could (and I suck at games, it was just that it really didn't matter).

But I'm hoping that we really won't be able to be stealthy with Yasuke and that the lady ninja will have limited fighting skills. That will be a hard balance- they chose to make Basim in Mirage have no fighting skills in order to force stealth and if they do that with her it'll be really frustrating.
 

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One grievance I personally have about the series is the Athenian plot line. This was the one time were ''keep politics outa my games!'' might have been a valid stance. You can pretty clearly see the current political status quo being shoved into ancient Athens. You have Pericles as the reasonable centrist who means well but is uncharismatic, and who's losing his footing against a charismatic ''far right'' demagogue who even directly goes around quoting Trump in a cringe worthy moment.

I think this does some disservice to Pericles who's more interesting than just an ancient Greek version of Joe biden or Theresa May. He's introduced as poorly trying to find his footing and being unable to handle the populist Cleon in debate, but Pericles was noted to be quite the orator. This to the extend he could single handily impose his will on Athens and convince even those who hated his plans. He's also quite a bit more dirty than AC shows too. Rather than a meek grey mouse Pericles has his own reputation for demagoguery and might actually have been responsible for starting the war in the first place.

There was plenty to do with Athens and its a shame they instead just mirrored it after the present day with ineffective and meek centrists against loony demagogues.
 

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One grievance I personally have about the series is the Athenian plot line. This was the one time were ''keep politics outa my games!'' might have been a valid stance. You can pretty clearly see the current political status quo being shoved into ancient Athens. You have Pericles as the reasonable centrist who means well but is uncharismatic, and who's losing his footing against a charismatic ''far right'' demagogue who even directly goes around quoting Trump in a cringe worthy moment.

I think this does some disservice to Pericles who's more interesting than just an ancient Greek version of Joe biden or Theresa May. He's introduced as poorly trying to find his footing and being unable to handle the populist Cleon in debate, but Pericles was noted to be quite the orator. This to the extend he could single handily impose his will on Athens and convince even those who hated his plans. He's also quite a bit more dirty than AC shows too. Rather than a meek grey mouse Pericles has his own reputation for demagoguery and might actually have been responsible for starting the war in the first place.

There was plenty to do with Athens and its a shame they instead just mirrored it after the present day with ineffective and meek centrists against loony demagogues.
Honestly I think the whole Peloponnesian war thing was a mistake in general. Most of the plot beats for it are pretty forgettable, none of the battles(Naval or otherwise) make any difference at all and they're more or less all the same in execution. You can turn the entire map red or blue(except the capitals) and it makes absolutely no difference and neither side gives a shit you're helping the other win the war. The fact you can play both sides and neither one notices just feels wierd.

I think I've said it before when I played it but I really get the impression they wanted to set the game in the "Heroic age" of mythology but also wanted all the cool classical architecture and to take advantage of Herodotus's work on the era(I mean, fair) so they just kind of threw made this weird ass mish-mash of eras that doesn't really reflect any particular era in practice. It just comes across as super immersion breaking a lot because they wanted the mythical stuff in there during a decently documented historical era and not the mythical past of Hesiod, and then you get shit like Classical ruins sitting on top of the Minion ruins at Knossos as well as underwater ruins that make NO FUCKING SENSE in context and....I'm sorry. I get pedantic about shit like this. Ancient stuff is a hobby for me and I get annoyed when it's clear when I see someone really isn't trying to make it make any sense. I'm fine with shit like God of War because that's pretty mythological in tone but this is allegedly supposed to be a real era of history and instead it feels like the animus is running God of War on the side and data from that game keeps glitching into this one and it just breaks the immersion so much harder then AC games normally do.
 
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Hades

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Honestly I think the whole Peloponnesian war thing was a mistake in general. Most of the plot beats for it are pretty forgettable, none of the battles(Naval or otherwise) make any difference at all and they're more or less all the same in execution. You can turn the entire map red or blue(except the capitals) and it makes absolutely no difference and neither side gives a shit you're helping the other win the war. The fact you can play both sides and neither one notices just feels wierd.
Oh that's my gameplay related gripe with the war. It feels so artificial and fake. Its the reverse Skyrim problem. In Skyrim the war doesn't move an inch until you get involved, but in AC the war exist entirely outside you. Which I guess is historically fitting, but it seems that's only the case to ensure you never run out of loot.
 

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One grievance I personally have about the series is the Athenian plot line. This was the one time were ''keep politics outa my games!'' might have been a valid stance. You can pretty clearly see the current political status quo being shoved into ancient Athens. You have Pericles as the reasonable centrist who means well but is uncharismatic, and who's losing his footing against a charismatic ''far right'' demagogue who even directly goes around quoting Trump in a cringe worthy moment.

I think this does some disservice to Pericles who's more interesting than just an ancient Greek version of Joe biden or Theresa May. He's introduced as poorly trying to find his footing and being unable to handle the populist Cleon in debate, but Pericles was noted to be quite the orator. This to the extend he could single handily impose his will on Athens and convince even those who hated his plans. He's also quite a bit more dirty than AC shows too. Rather than a meek grey mouse Pericles has his own reputation for demagoguery and might actually have been responsible for starting the war in the first place.

There was plenty to do with Athens and its a shame they instead just mirrored it after the present day with ineffective and meek centrists against loony demagogues.
Well Pericles in the game is old and weak and dying, you're clearly not seeing the man at his peak. I don't know how accurate that is to history but to your point and others' point it's not like the game cares about that. Just from a story perspective, you have everybody else around him talking about how great he is...was.

History/culture aside, as a plot... wait, there was a plot in Odyssey? lol come on. It's an amusement part themed after a wikipedia article about Greece.
 
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Well Pericles in the game is old and weak and dying, you're clearly not seeing the man at his peak. I don't know how accurate that is to history but to your point and others' point it's not like the game cares about that. Just from a story perspective, you have everybody else around him talking about how great he is...was.

History/culture aside, as a plot... wait, there was a plot in Odyssey? lol come on. It's an amusement part themed after a wikipedia article about Greece.
Technically there are 3 plots, it's just that they're all fighting for attention over a 50+ hour game and somehow it really doesn't work. Also because it has the problem there being so much fucking filler in the game that doesn't really fit into anything.
I felt the family plot was the strongest of the 3 but even then that's because the other 2 set such a low bar it's impossible not to be.

And it's...kinda accurate to the history of the period, at least in broad strokes, but that's not hard since it's just cribbing the high points of the Peloponnesian war for background events. Some of the other games feel more egregious honestly(The Ripper DLC in Syndicate is just awful in this regard) but at the same time....it's weird. Like none of the characters age despite 30 years passing in game, they show Athens and Sparta having roughly equal forces and that's not remotely accurate(Athens had a Navy but not much of an army, Sparta had an Army but no Navy to speak of).

Also the whole Atlantis being a myth before Plato even existed is just fucking bizarre, since it's pretty much agreed that Plato flat out made it up to illustrate a point. It doesn't exist in any of the previous mythology(though might be based off half remembered stories of the bronze age collapse in a broad way). I know it fits the theme of AC conspiracy nonsense but at the same time, the fact there just seems to be a general awareness of Atlantis amongst the characters is kinda wierd. It would be one thing if Herodotus had to explain the idea of atlantis to the PC and havewave it that he picked up the story when he visited Egypt(because that's where Plato says Solon got the story from and even then it's part of a conversation Plato could not have been present for, thus a narrative device), but it just seems common knowledge in the game despite being absent from greek myth prior to plato.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Well look the whole Cult of Kosmos is already just freaking absurd. It's the pre-pre-Templar, and the Templar thing was already stupid. And then in the DLC it's revealed that the Cult of Kosmos wasn't even that scary because the REAL Order comes in....

But I love it as a gameplay mechanic to hunt for enemies and I'm so glad it's going to come back in Shadows- honestly it's maybe the best addition to the series with the recent games.
 
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A great article calling out the bullshit of people and "YouTube experts" claiming they know Japanese history, when they don't know thing one nor how the language even works.

For centuries, an African slave who entered the orbit of war-torn Japan's leading daimyo was an interesting historical tidbit. As of last week, he became the catalyst for the latest in the so-called culture wars.


On May 15, developer Ubisoft Quebec announced Assassin's Creed Shadows, an upcoming chapter in the long-running action-adventure series set to take place during Japan's Sengoku (Warring States) Period (1482-1573). As is common to the Assassin's Creed franchise, players will control a main character (in Shadows, this is Naoe, a female ninja) through stealth missions usually culminating in the violent elimination of a target. In a slight departure, players will also control Yasuke, a character based on a real-life African slave brought to Japan by Italian Jesuit missionaries and who gained the trust of warlord Oda Nobunaga (1534-1582).



For many gamers, Ubisoft's announcement was their first introduction to Yasuke, a well-documented historical figure with a strong claim to the title of Japan's first non-Japanese samurai. For a vocal minority, however, a Black protagonist of a game set in feudal Japan was a call to war.

Critics on X (formerly Twitter) claimed Yasuke was a warrior but never truly made a samurai. On Reddit, some insisted that if Nobunaga endowed a Black man with the status of a samurai it could only have been as a joke, and on YouTube, creators lambasted Ubisoft and claimed gamers would reject "woke Yasuke" en masse. Yasuke's Wikipedia page is now locked and cannot be edited by non- or newly registered users.

To Thomas Lockley, a Nihon University professor and author of "African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke, a Legendary Black Warrior in Feudal Japan," this deluge of Yasuke hot takes is disappointing.

"What it seems to me is that people who know nothing about Japanese history, know nothing about Japan in most cases and certainly know nothing about the Japanese language and the terminology they're talking about — suddenly, they know everything," Lockley tells The Japan Times.



A 1605 folding
A 1605 folding "byōbu" screen depicts a dark-skinned man engaged in a sumo competiton with Japanese combatants. | PUBLIC DOMAIN/ VIA WIKIMEDIA COMMONS


The study of history across cultures as varied as Japan and the West can be problematic when people look for one-to-one comparisons. The act in which a medieval European warrior kneels, is anointed with a sword and rises a knight (itself an invention of later observers) had no equivalent in the Sengoku Period, Lockley explains. In a country embroiled in a civil war with dozens of belligerent fiefdoms, "there was no clear division between 'samurai' and others" until 1588, when Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Nobunaga's successor, began prohibiting the possession of weapons by all but the hereditary nobility.

Being samurai, then, was defined by other means. Whether Yasuke was ever ceremoniously endowed with the rights, privileges and responsibilities of a samurai, he was addressed as "tono" (literally, "lord" or "master"), received a stipend from Nobunaga and carried Nobunaga's arms, itself a rank of immense honor for the era.

"There's no piece of paper that says Yasuke was a samurai," Lockley says, noting that some critics are simply misunderstanding how to interpret the historical record. "But then there's no piece of paper that says anybody else was a samurai."

Most telling to Lockley, however, is that no reputable Japanese historian has raised doubts about Yasuke's samurai bonafides, including Sakujin Kirino, who served as a fact-checker for "African Samurai" and is one of the country's foremost experts on the 1582 Honnoji Incident, for which Yasuke was believed to be present.

That's not to say that the study of history can't be messy, and responsibly telling the story of Yasuke requires a steady, measured approach in modern times — something Ubisoft is all but assured not to do.

Far from a paragon of modern game development, Ubisoft has increasingly released titles with pay-to-win mechanics alongside a precipitous decline in quality since its heyday in the early 2000s. Some gamers have tried to cut through the noise of the Yasuke "controversy" by pointing out these shortcomings, even going so far as to claim Ubisoft is banking on this to drive engagement for a game that may not be able to capture headlines off its post-release experience.

All's well that ends well for Ubisoft, though, especially if this Yasuke talk convinces gamers to shell out for the Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition, a collection of paywalled content, three days of "early access" before the general public and other samurai-themed tchotchkes — all available for the low, low price of $279.99 (about ¥44,000).

Other news:

Some people never learn and pre-order when no gameplay footage has not been revealed.



The Collectors Edition of Assassin's Creed Shadows is already sold out in some places. This development testifies to the excitement surrounding Assassin's Creed Shadows, even though the game itself isn't scheduled to hit the store shelves for another six months.

Ubisoft revealed the official title of the next entry in its hit franchise on May 13. Assassin's Creed Shadows received its first cinematic trailer two days later. Pre-orders for the game opened on the same day.


RELATED
[h4]People Are Vandalizing the Wikipedia Page for Assassin's Creed Shadows Protagonist Yasuke[/h4]
Black samurai Yasuke's Wikipedia page has been the site of an edit war after Ubisoft announced him as one of Assassin's Creed Shadow's protagonists.

[h2]Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition Sold Out Across Europe[/h2]
Although some vocal fans wasted no time in criticizing Assassin's Creed Shadows' pricing, the backlash seemingly did little to affect the open-world RPG's pre-purchase performance. Numerous retailers across Europe are hence already listing its Collector's Edition as out of stock. That list includes Game, the sole distributor of Assassin's Creed Shadows' most expensive edition in the United Kingdom. Multinational retailer Smyths Toys Superstores is also no longer accepting pre-orders for this $280 edition of the game, while Meccha-Japan states that it only has "a few units" left, and that's only for the PS5 version.



  • Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition promo image 1
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  • Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition promo image 3
  • Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition promo image 4
  • Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition promo image 5
  • Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition promo image 6
  • Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition promo image 7

As of late May 2024, there no longer appears to be a way to order the PC version of the Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition. Its console counterparts are still up for grabs in the United States, where they are exclusively distributed by GameStop. Generally speaking, the sole fact that a limited edition of any given game gets sold out quickly does not necessarily guarantee that its overall pre-orders are doing well, not least because publishers can always choose to create artificial scarcity with such releases. But that may not be the case here, even though it's presently unclear how many $280 editions of the Sengoku-era-Japan game were promised to distributors. Namely, one recent report indicated that Ubisoft is happy with Assassin's Creed Shadows' pre-order performance across the board.


[h3]Where To Pre-Order Assassin's Creed Shadows Collector's Edition Right Now[/h3]
Given how long the fans have been asking for a mainline installment set in feudal Japan, it is plausible that the upcoming game will do well, sales-wise. Another reason why the fandom is excited about the upcoming entry is the promise of Assassin's Creed Shadows overhauling the series' stealth system by allowing players to extinguish sources of light in the vein of the Thief games and even go prone, among other novelties.

Previous reports have even indicated that the new version of the Anvil engine used by Assassin's Creed Shadows will be the first to support full-fledged ray tracing, although that claim has yet to be officially confirmed by Ubisoft. The open-world RPG is scheduled to hit early access on November 12, followed by a global release three days later.
 
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Agema

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Like none of the characters age despite 30 years passing in game, they show Athens and Sparta having roughly equal forces and that's not remotely accurate(Athens had a Navy but not much of an army, Sparta had an Army but no Navy to speak of).
This is not really true. Athens was a hugely populous city state (possibly about 2-3 times the size of other major cities like Corinth and Thebes) at the time of the Peloponnesian war, and had a large army which was highly active throughout. Plus it could also call on its subject/allies in the Aegean islands.

However, the Athenian strategy was to avoid direct pitched battles against Sparta, because Athens expected they would end in defeat - and indeed this was generally the case when that occurred. The Athenian army was thus not so much small as it was generally dispersed, controlling its far-flung territory and harrassing Sparta's allies.
 

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This is not really true. Athens was a hugely populous city state (possibly about 2-3 times the size of other major cities like Corinth and Thebes) at the time of the Peloponnesian war, and had a large army which was highly active throughout. Plus it could also call on its subject/allies in the Aegean islands.

However, the Athenian strategy was to avoid direct pitched battles against Sparta, because Athens expected they would end in defeat - and indeed this was generally the case when that occurred. The Athenian army was thus not so much small as it was generally dispersed, controlling its far-flung territory and harrassing Sparta's allies.
While the Athens did have a sizable army I did recall reading in Donald Kagan's book on the matter that the Spartans did outnumber the Athenians significantly, though this was somewhat mitigated by the Spartan's unique way of doing things meant that lost soldiers were very hard to replace, and that a good chunk needed to stay home because Sparta terrorized their slaves so much that they lived in perpetual terror of those slaves revolting.
 

Agema

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While the Athens did have a sizable army I did recall reading in Donald Kagan's book on the matter that the Spartans did outnumber the Athenians significantly, though this was somewhat mitigated by the Spartan's unique way of doing things meant that lost soldiers were very hard to replace, and that a good chunk needed to stay home because Sparta terrorized their slaves so much that they lived in perpetual terror of those slaves revolting.
The Athenian army was up to twice as large as the Spartan at base. Although what that really means is not quite straightforward: the Athenians could and did shunt another load of citizens into armour if they needed, where the Spartans could employ non-Spartiate freemen as extra hoplites, and helot slaves as light infantry.

What more will have given the Spartans numerical superiority are all their allies, chiefly the major city states of Corinth and Thebes, but also smaller city states who could chip in a thousand or so troops here and there. However, this superiority would only apply in southern Greece, because it's unlikely they could concentrate large forces outside that region without naval dominance. And yes, in practice as you say, all city states would have to leave a chunk of their army at home just in case anyway.
 
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This is not really true. Athens was a hugely populous city state (possibly about 2-3 times the size of other major cities like Corinth and Thebes) at the time of the Peloponnesian war, and had a large army which was highly active throughout. Plus it could also call on its subject/allies in the Aegean islands.

However, the Athenian strategy was to avoid direct pitched battles against Sparta, because Athens expected they would end in defeat - and indeed this was generally the case when that occurred. The Athenian army was thus not so much small as it was generally dispersed, controlling its far-flung territory and harrassing Sparta's allies.
I stand corrected. Thank you.
 
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