If neither are willing to make Israel even a little bit accountable for all the shit they're doing, then neither one is getting my vote. It's as simple as that.
US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
- Start date
Regardless one of them will win the election and take office, as such your refusal to vote will only benefit the candidate that you find worse on other issues and harm the one that you find agreeable on other issues.
I'm not refusing to vote. I'll be voting in November.
I'll be voting for someone who is Pro-Stop Letting Israel Genocide Palestinians.
Harris has the chance to be that person but that's up to her.
Same outcome, with the current system the only winner will be the Republican nominee or the Democratic nominee, a vote for third a third party candidate will harm the one you find least disagreeable of the Republican and the Democratic nominees.
Sure, it would be nice if the system worked differently, but as it stands it doesn't.
Yes, it doesn't work differently because no one is willing to vote third party and none of you have any desire to "PUSH THEM LEFT" like is promised every GD election when we HAVE to vote Democrat or else THEY will win (but next time we can vote our conscious...until next time comes around and then we HAVE to vote Democrat or else THEY will win...). You all have LESSER EVIL'ed us to the point where we have to accept genocide as the LeSsEr EvIl.
That's not going to happen for me. This wasn't a game I was willing to play for the last decade and that was before you all decided that Genocide is something you can just overlook.
A reminder: The whole "not voting for either one" is what led to Trump in power in the first place during the 2016 election. I am not making excuses for either party's lack of evolvement in holding Israel accountable. So like I said before. I'm not gonna vote for Nazi-KKK worshipping death cult. I'm voting for the people actually trying to get their jobs done, and actually have common sense and sanity. Not some leader who thinks themselves as crownless Messiah God King.
The only true crownless king is Travis Touchdown anyway.
I'm not either. I don't know why you all continue to insist that if you are not voting Harris, that means you MUST be voting Trump. I'm voting for someone who matches what I want done. Harris has the opportunity to be that person but as of now, she has shown complete disdain for my position rather than even at least pretending like she might possibly consider reigning in Israel.
As I've said many times throughout these years, if the Democrats want me to vote for them, they need to give me a REASON to vote for them, not just a reason to not vote for the other guy.
It sucks, but reality is that one of the two parties will win, you can either pick the lesser or the greater evil, saying you won't will just benefit the greater evil.
The issue is that in the US you rely on the ones that might flip between two parties a lot more than the extremes, as someone who cares mainly about women's rights and education you only have one choice because the other party will destroy both, but as someone with more centrist opinions both parties need to cater to you, that's the unfortunate reality of US politics.
I'll just note that you do, however, have options beyond just voting, you could, for an example, run for office yourself, it wouldn't have to be head of the executive any role can do something to change society and the way people interact with politics.
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The Democratic and Republican parties of 100 years ago were both more progressive than the modern Democratic and Republican parties, if you ignore identity politics.
Here's the party platforms for the Democrats and the Republicans in 1932.
Both parties were in favor of reducing government expenditure and balancing the budget of the government. In 2024 the Republicans have pretty much abandoned any kind of fiscal oversight, and debt massively ballooned under Trump's presidency. https://www.aier.org/article/theres-nothing-conservative-about-deficits-and-debt/
Both parties were in favor of expanding unemployment relief. In 2024 the Republican party wants a reduction in unemployment benefits, and generally a reduction in "entitlements."
Both parties wanted greater supervision over the banking system and investment banking. In 2024 Trump is promising more deregulation for investors, and reduced oversight for things like cryptocurrencies. Project 2025 wants to get rid of the federal trade commission.
Both parties were in favor of greater anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws to prevent unfair trade practices. In 2024 both parties have substantially failed at curtailing monopolies, and the Republicans want to further reduce corporate taxes.
Both parties were in favor of greater international cooperation. The 2024 Republican party under Trump is anti-NATO and Trump has stated multiple times that he doesn't want to guarantee protection for our allies.
Both parties were in favor of greater home ownership and thought that it was up to the government to assist home buyers with home loans. These days huge amounts of single family homes are being bought by investment companies and both the Republican and Democratic governments have failed to intervene. You will spend your whole life renting, you will own nothing and you will be happy with it.
Both parties were in favor of farming coops. Now basically all farming in the US is done by massive corporations, and coops are seen as something for hippies and socialists.
Both parties were in favor of higher wages, a shorter working week, and a shorter work day. Republicans these days would think that's socialism, they vote against increasing the federal minimum wage, and they work to remove worker protections. Project 2025 wants to reduce access to things like overtime pay, get rid of health and safety protections for workers, and outlaw public sector unions.
Both parties wanted greater regulation of interstate public utilities. The Republican party now stands for deregulation.
Please tell me more about how much more progressive the country has gotten.
The country has gotten more progressive on things like race, gay rights, etc. But if you take away identity politics the country has regressed in much of its economic policy, worker protections, banking and investment regulations and a whole host of other issues. We used to have much higher taxes on the rich, much higher corporate taxes, and everyone was in favor of more banking regulations, investment regulations, anti-monopoly, and anti-trust laws.
I didn't say you were voting for Trump, nor implied, but you're letting the possibility of him waltzing in the office by not doing do at all. That's what all the "I'm not voting/ My vote doesn't matter" people did back in 2016. Look where it led? A guy empowered that has no idea what he is doing is so egotistical and up his own ass. Which led us to the disaster that is covid. After that happened, everybody was a lot more egar to vote then. Funny how the opinion poll changes when lives are at stake and lives got ruined when l, something simple could have been avoided, solved, and easily dealt with.
That is nothing more than a glorified "What's in it for me?". Understandable though.
You can make whatever choice you want, but don't say you didn't have a choice, if that asshole ever gets back in the office again. I don't ever want to hear those words coming out of your mouth when shit really hits the fan. If Trump gets back in, you'll be next on the chopping block. He'll go after the blacks and other minorities first, then the gays/lesbians, and then whoever's next on the totem pole and consider "white/white adjacent". And so on, and so on.
Well, not really, because his sticking point is something drastically affecting ~5 million other people, far more than it affects him himself. You can make an argument that it's unhelpful or impractical, but I don't think you can make a realistic argument that it's selfish.
The sticking point is a genocide happening in another country. that's about the exact opposite of "what's in it for me" that you can get. If anything, people who are advocating for the democrats over, say, the green party are the ones saying "Fuck you, got mine".
You know what, deal. If Trump gets into office and kills us all, I'll say it was my fault.
But if I have to take accountability for something a guy I don't even vote for, you have to take accountability for the shit the lady you are actually voting for is doing. You can have on you the 186,000 estimated dead and the countless more that will die as Israel remains unchallenged (hell, could be WAY more if Israel pokes the hornets nest enough times to start up WW3. I personally don't think it would go that far but it's certainly not a 0% chance). You can go on Twitter and find the videos of kids with their heads missing and limbs blown off crying for their parents. I've seen far too many of those kinds of videos to just pretend that I'm voting for The Lesser Evil.
If I have to be responsible for shit the guy I'm not even voting for does, you can feel responsible for the shit the lady you are actively supporting is actually doing.
After this boxing thing, we all know that genitalia doesn't matter when determining men from women.... for some reason
Along with my post above because I realize I'm getting a bit... aggressive; I don't fault Lefty's who choose to vote Harris. I disagree with what they're hoping to accomplish as we've now had 20some years of Lesser Evil but I get it.
I'm not going to though because we've been seeing this song and dance for 20ish years. In 2028, we'll be told we HAVE to vote Democrat cause the next guy will implement Project 2029 if we don't. Lesser Evil is still evil and everytime Democrats get into office, that lesser evil seems to creep closer to Evil and farther away from Lesser...
Choose to support it if you wish but I will not do it.
I'm not going to though because we've been seeing this song and dance for 20ish years. In 2028, we'll be told we HAVE to vote Democrat cause the next guy will implement Project 2029 if we don't. Lesser Evil is still evil and everytime Democrats get into office, that lesser evil seems to creep closer to Evil and farther away from Lesser...
Choose to support it if you wish but I will not do it.
Hence why I said understandable.
I take full responsibility of voting for Harris. Your point?/rhetorical
At least you have a much better chance of being heard, than if Trump got into office again. At least you and others can make their voices heard and form your own party if you wish. I'll support you if it comes down to it, and I decide Harris and the others aren't up to the job.
I'm well aware of what's going on. I don't want anybody to die or suffer, but people are going to die and suffer even more and much worse with the Nazi-KKK cult in charge.
Once again, do as you wish, but it is your choice. I am not here for lesser evil type arguments. You bet your ass Republicans are gonna try this crab again and again. And I'll do whatever it takes to stop them for making things miserable for everyone.
Here's what I want you to do. Go back and read what RBG said about Roe and tell us what you think she said
Because I can guarantee it's not what you think it is
Than what they are right now? Absolutely
Than what they were doing a month ago? Some needed a little more power (eg. EPA) and some needed less (Homeland Security)
But then, the people who were for Chevron understood that this was in place to keep the government functioning. It's not about 'inherently good'. They are for functioning
It's why Chevron was targeted. 2025 specifically wants to cripple the government and then place absolute power into the president. You can't have a king with Supreme Courts, Congresses and Agencies who think for themselves
Understood
Just know that Lincoln was voted in as the lesser of two evils as he wasn't really anti-slavery
It's not a 20 year thing...