Ghosts of Tsushima Review thread

[hanselthecaretaker]

You know, with the story stripped of all the needless open world bloat, it could actually be good. But what is with Sony trying to make everything into either a TV show or a film at the moment?

They were into movies long before games, so it’s really them just doubling down on things wherever they think there’s opportunities for moar monies.

 

[Catfood220]

What's funny about that is that you call it open world bloat, and you're right it is, but all that bloat is often what makes a game great. We don't think about it much because we are often lost in the world and focused on the game itself, but often times if you got rid of all the bloat in a game like Ghosts then the game would be a much lesser experience for it. Without all that extra stuff to do and didn't have things to see or explore, even if you only do it passively, then a lot of the sense of world is gone and you end up with a shallow experience.

One thing I think isn't much considered when we talk about open world games is that, more often than not, the game doesn't expect you to do EVERYTHING. They scatter a ton of shit around for you to do and they do that because it not only adds to the feeling of "stuff" in the world but they also figure that the player will do at least SOME of it. While very few people will complete all of it, the vast majority of players will engage with at least a certain percentage of it and what they dont bother with still does a lot to make the world feel "real".

It also does wonders for environmental storytelling as well.

I feel that the open world of Ghosts works to its detriment, mainly because there is very little to do or see. Yes, it is very pretty, but pretty will only get you so far. There is stuff to find, but not enough of it. Outside of the collectibles, this game offers very little else, yeah there is a fox shrine here or bamboo chopping thing there. But its all easily found on the world map and if you can't find it, a yellow bird will show up and guide you to it. Outside of that, there is nothing, there is no need to explore this game world because there is nothing there to find. In other open world games, they always give you reasons to explore. Take something like Red Dead Redemption 2 for example, an oddly shaped tree might mean treasure, or a random house might mean you discover someone has been creating abominations. I'm currently addicted to Breath of the Wild again and that game is always offering you something to find or do. Ghosts does none of that and the beautiful game world seems cold and empty and dead. For an island under attack, there seems to be very little going on. Where are the caravans of people fleeing there destroyed homes? Mongols transporting prisoners? Or just people moving around in general? Yeah, you might run into a group of 4 or 5 Mongols to fight every now and then, but that's it. In fact I don't think anyone leaves their settlements unless they're out on a mission with you. Again, it makes the world feel dead.

I have never been so bored playing a game as I have with this game. I got to the point of rescuing Jin's uncle and the game went "Sorry, your Mongol brute is in another castle" and I was done. I tried to play a bit more but I would turn the game on, look at the beautiful dead world, sigh and turn it off again 5 minutes later.

I think having the game broken up into semi open world levels would of suited the game so much better. You don't have to change much else. You have an objective to complete and you go about it any way you want. You and hack and slash your way in or sneak about. You can have shrines, bamboo chopping, haiku writing, all of it hidden in these levels. You can have the collectibles, you can even have the weather changing to be stormy the more dishonourable you are. But a more focused game in my opinion would of made for a better experience.

 

[BrawlMan]

I think having the game broken up into semi open world levels would of suited the game so much better. You don't have to change much else. You have an objective to complete and you go about it any way you want. You and hack and slash your way in or sneak about. You can have shrines, bamboo chopping, haiku writing, all of it hidden in these levels. You can have the collectibles, you can even have the weather changing to be stormy the more dishonourable you are. But a more focused game in my opinion would of made for a better experience.

It's why I love Evil Within 2. In the sequel they will either improve on the open world or make it semi-open similar to God of War. You have your points and I understand, but I love exploring that island so much. It was really therapeutic for me getting lost in the world.

 

[sXeth]

I feel that the open world of Ghosts works to its detriment, mainly because there is very little to do or see. Yes, it is very pretty, but pretty will only get you so far. There is stuff to find, but not enough of it. Outside of the collectibles, this game offers very little else, yeah there is a fox shrine here or bamboo chopping thing there. But its all easily found on the world map and if you can't find it, a yellow bird will show up and guide you to it. Outside of that, there is nothing, there is no need to explore this game world because there is nothing there to find. In other open world games, they always give you reasons to explore. Take something like Red Dead Redemption 2 for example, an oddly shaped tree might mean treasure, or a random house might mean you discover someone has been creating abominations. I'm currently addicted to Breath of the Wild again and that game is always offering you something to find or do. Ghosts does none of that and the beautiful game world seems cold and empty and dead. For an island under attack, there seems to be very little going on. Where are the caravans of people fleeing there destroyed homes? Mongols transporting prisoners? Or just people moving around in general? Yeah, you might run into a group of 4 or 5 Mongols to fight every now and then, but that's it. In fact I don't think anyone leaves their settlements unless they're out on a mission with you. Again, it makes the world feel dead.

Well, the island is basically occupied after the intro.... people aren't fleeing because there is nowhere to flee. to. The Mongols have a blockade (that you break near the end of the game) on the water, so there is literally nothing to do but sit tight and hope the professionals work it out or someone comes from the mainland to see WTF is going on. And Jin and co, or Lord Shimura are the professionals in this case, who are doing things as part of the story, explaining why you don't bump into them faffing about elsewhere.


The obligatory collectibles are not the sole open world content, all the sidequests are accountable to that too, and would be lost if you just followed the through path of Jin+Uncle_Mongols.


As the collectible stuff goes, well, I can't say any open world game really has ever done a job of that. Hell, BotW is probably worse on that front because Nintendo these days feels the need to have x3000 of everything, and most of the Korok puzzles just repeat with little variance and over 3.4 of the shrines are either the same combat encounter or outright just a room saying thanks for coming. Collecathons work.... alrightish, in platforming/traversal games (like Mario Odyssey, Sunset Overdive, somewhat in inFamous, or The Pathless) where, but with simple walking/riding mechanics, not so much.

 

[happyninja42]

The obligatory collectibles are not the sole open world content, all the sidequests are accountable to that too, and would be lost if you just followed the through path of Jin+Uncle_Mongols.

No they are not ALL of it, but they do make up a huge bulk of it. As someone who doesn't enjoy mindless collecting, it was especially noticeable how much was purely cosmetic. That was one of the big negatives for me with the game, as it felt really strange, to have so many ways to get the same type of item. I have a VERY low tolerance for "collectables for collecting's sake" type content, and much prefer it when the game actually incorporates it into the narrative. Where it's got a tangible benefit, either to the MC, or to the world. My favorite example of this, is the first inFamous game. There was a "find all the shard fragments" part to the game, and I loved it. Partly because they actually gave you a "pulse radar" ability with the minimap, so you could know when there was one nearby, though you still had to find it in the environment. But finding those fragments, actually benefited Cole. It gave him an expanded power bar, allowing him to sling around WAY more electricity by the end of the game. So it felt organic to the game, and was actually a productive use of my time.

In GoT, you just...find lots of headbands. Yay? Given the entire island is under lockdown, and resources are scarce (so much so that the currency is "supplies", assuming food), I would've much preferred collectable missions that centered around...I dunno, something to help the villagers? I mean that is Jin's driving motivation anyway, his sense of duty and love for his people. It's why he's willing to cross the line and use very bad tactics in war, to minimize the number of Tsushima deaths. So, why am I spending so much time picking up sword sheaths? And headbands? Seriously I have like 40 of them, I only have one head damnit! But a collectible quest where I find hidden food caches from a now dead smuggler, and tag them so that villagers can obtain them, and thus not starve? Perhaps expanding the various villages in some way? To show how you are helping to stabilize the region? That is way more up my alley.

 

[CriticalGaming]

But a collectible quest where I find hidden food caches from a now dead smuggler, and tag them so that villagers can obtain them, and thus not starve? Perhaps expanding the various villages in some way? To show how you are helping to stabilize the region? That is way more up my alley.

Oh this could have been cool. "Another village needs your help Jin."

I mean if not done like Fallout 4 obviously. But still cool, maybe expand the side quests offered by villagers when you helped grow the village large enough. Or have those villagers provide the cosmetic rewards for saving them out in the world. You could return to a town having saved someone, only to find out they are a tailer or smith and they made you a collectible as a reward. This could make the "collecting" aspect more engaging because it's a reward for doing content rather than something you stumble upon, or by doing a challenge-less task.

 

[happyninja42]

Oh this could have been cool. "Another village needs your help Jin."

I mean if not done like Fallout 4 obviously. But still cool, maybe expand the side quests offered by villagers when you helped grow the village large enough. Or have those villagers provide the cosmetic rewards for saving them out in the world. You could return to a town having saved someone, only to find out they are a tailer or smith and they made you a collectible as a reward. This could make the "collecting" aspect more engaging because it's a reward for doing content rather than something you stumble upon, or by doing a challenge-less task.

Yeah, a collectible for each village I helped, would have way more meaning to me, than "Haiku Headband 27" Wearing the banner (a collectible in the game that is at least interesting for it's historical tidbits? But still ultimately just mindless gathering), of a village, where the quest for them was like, I dunno, fighting off a series of mongol hordes attacking. And I can wear it behind my armor, the tattered flag of their village, the survived the attack, and is now their symbol, given to Jin. That he can wear on the back of his armor, because you know, they did that shit back then. THAT would've been cool. Every time I saw it, I would think "oh yeah, that was that time I fought 30+ dudes, while the villagers joined in and helped with the combat, throwing rocks or cookery, or whatever. Good times."

 

[BrawlMan]

Director's Cut Reviews!

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[happyninja42]

I honestly forgot that thing was coming out. I'll probably pick it up after I finish Remnant. Don't want to confuse my muscle memory for combat with the different games.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

The upgrade isn't a massive change, but it really pronounces the astounding beauty of just wandering through the world. Vistas are pure uncut eye candy.

 

[BrawlMan]

The upgrade isn't a massive change, but it really pronounces the astounding beauty of just wandering through the world. Vistas are pure uncut eye candy.

I know I'm glad to wait a while on this one. I gave my original copy of the game to my brother so he could borrow it for a while. Plus, No More Heroes III comes out next Friday. I will be busy with that.

 

[BrawlMan]

This game is on the stylish action list now! I am not surprised!

Stylish Action - TV Tropes

For some action heroes, it's not enough to just save the world; they've gotta look good doin' it. Stylish Action is a sub-genre of action video games that involves unrealistic combat and the fun that comes from learning how to create it. Its main …

tvtropes.org

Ghost of Tsushima is the closest an Assassin's Creed-style game comes to this, with a stance system similar to Nioh, as well as a wide array of unlockable projectiles that encourage versatility and creativity in combat. These, combined with a plethora of stealth moves, a unique skill tree to each stance with varying effectiveness against certain enemy types, and methodical-yet-fast battles that require a mixture of offensive and defensive tactics to win effectively, give the player a huge array of ways to manage fights, whether you choose a stealthy or close-quarters approach.

 

[BrawlMan]

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[BrawlMan]

Let's go, Ghost of Yotei!
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[Ezekiel]

First game had a hot guy, but of course the woman has to be plain. Why is she wearing men's clothing? Female samurai is historically inaccurate. Seems to her benefit to dress like a woman. Would confuse them. She would get shit for dressing like a man everywhere she went.

Would also hope that western music isn't in the game.

 

[BrawlMan]

First game had a hot guy, but of course the woman has to be plain. Why is she wearing men's clothing? Female samurai is historically inaccurate. Seems to her benefit to dress like a woman. Would confuse them.

I wouldn't exactly call her "plain". Also, the Japanese actually consider Jin good looking, but not a hot guy. They consider him plain by comparison to the usual Japanese protag whenever they do young 20 somethings or teenagers.

Female samurai is historically inaccurate. Seems to her benefit to dress like a woman. Would confuse them.

1. So fucking what? It's historical fiction. If you want "100% accuracy", then play something else. You sound like the anti-woke grifters going about 'realism' in an AC game.
2. Ninjistu/ninjas/kunoichi are all about deception.
3. You base this off absolutely nothing, and you don't know the context to the story. How about waiting until the game comes out, and then judge it? Then again, I am talking to the can't find fun in nearly anything guy, and expecting every game to bow to your specific whim that one asked for, nor are going to out their way to do personally for you.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

 

[Ezekiel]

It's dumb as fuck because it has zero consideration for social norms of the time, making the setting more pointless. In every public place she'd have to explain it again. The agenda doesn't care about logic. Have some Lady Snowblood and Lone Wolf and Cub manga examples of more sensible female fighters, but they include nudity, which for some reason isn't allowed on a forum full of adults. The Lone Wolf and Cub lady has disturbing tattoos on on her body, including a baby sucking on her breast, which makes the men hesitate at the worst moments. Obviously too racy for this fruity world. But even full coverage in feminine clothes would have been far better than this bullshit.

Onna-musha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Onna-musha were female warriors, probably rare, but they wouldn't have stood out so because they served in units, weren't lone samurai wandering around, going from village to village, drawing attention to their male clothes and visible weapons for no reason.

 

[BrawlMan]

It's dumb as fuck because it has zero consideration for social norms of the time, making the setting more pointless. In every public place she'd have to explain it again. The agenda doesn't care about logic. Have some Lady Snowblood and Lone Wolf and Cub manga examples of more sensible female fighters, but they include nudity, which for some reason isn't allowed on a forum full of adults. The Lone Wolf and Cub lady has disturbing tattoos on on her body, including a baby sucking on her breast, which makes the men hesitate at the worst moments. Obviously too racy for this fruity world. But even full coverage in feminine clothes would have been far better than this bullshit.

Onna-musha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Onna-musha were female warriors, probably rare, but they wouldn't have stood out so because they served in units, weren't lone samurai wandering around, going from village to village, drawing attention to their male clothes and visible weapons for no reason.

I get you, but at the same time, it's really not worth getting your panties in a bunch. You might as well cry about Samurai Warriors/Sengoku Musou while you're at it about "historical accuracy". You be miserable wherever and however you want, I don't give flying fuck. I am here for an awesome samurai-ninja stealth game, and I am getting exactly what I and most others wanted. Deal with it, or don't.

 

[Ezekiel]

Good post about that wikipedia and the subject, not written by me (obviously).

So here is the thing, you should read the 'talk' page on the wiki entry. Both terms onna-mush and onna-bugeisha are very very rarely used in actual historical sources. Personally the only time I have seen the use of these terms was on historical fiction books, never in academical works or contemporary sources. Tho Japan is not my area of expertise so I might have missed some of the more niche sources. IIRC one of the terms was even coined during the 60's or 70's by a japanese historical fiction author.

Female samurai exist in the sense that they were members of the samurai class, mostly as wives and daughters used as political tools in marriage arrangements. We do have some accounts of female 'fighters' in Japan but pretty much all of them are accounts of small specific groups of woman fighting in extraordinary circunstances (like helping defend a castle or a village), rallying and inspiring soldiers (à la Jeanne D'arc) or some corps of female only fighters associated with the defence of a castle or fortification (like the female courp that helped defend Tsuruga castle). You wont really find a connection or tradition between them, trying to force the very very very rare instances of female fighting or participating in war on Japan as something common or culturally established, even coining a term to describe them, is more of an anachronistic thing and in my experience something ideologically charged.

What is actually established and we do know is that some woman (mainly members of the samurai class or woman who lived in temples) were 'trained' to use some types of knives and/or most comonly received some very limited ammounts of training on how to weild the naginata. They chose that weapon as it gave them advantages due to ease of use, the lighter weight and its longer reach. The naginata itself saw its use on the battlefield fall out of favor because its not really a weapon useful on tight formations. Otoh its a great weapon to use when you are fighting in a small group in an enclosed space were your biggest objective is protecting a fortified position, such the entrance to a castle's inner building. This is mostly when woman were expect to fight and were we find the vast majority of examples of female fighters in Japan, when bandits or enemy soldiers were attacking their homes and the man were either fighting somewhere else or were already defeated in the field. Like a last ditch effort to prevent their capture or the sacking of their villages.

Edit: Forgot to say that the single most famous example of a Japanese female fighter, Tomoe Gozen, is actually probably a fictional or at best semi historical figure as the only source for her existence is The Tale of Heike, an epic poem compiled after her supposed death and the events the poem describes. Its actually somewhat close to the Iliad for us westerners. A partly historical/partly fictional tale of a war that happened decades or centuries prior to when it was actually written. I have even read some Japanese historians argue that her figure is a way of mocking or slandering the lord she served, like saying he was so weak he needed a woman to lead his armies and fight his enemies.