But look at that jawline though... the size of that nose...
I'm leaving whether or not this is a serious answer up in the air.
The eyes are too close together, the face is too long - Yep, they made her masculine on purpose.
Funny events in anti-woke world
- Thread starter Agema
- Start date
The eyes are too close together, the face is too long - Yep, they made her masculine on purpose.I like the reboot redesign as well and much for the same reasons. (The game has other things that harm credibility)
However, i have difficulties recognizing the Crystal dynamics design in the pictures from the animation at all. I actually assumed it was supposed to be another new version/interpretation of the character.
No.
For example, for all the complaints and media attention AC Shadows is collecting and all the supposed wokeness some people seem to perceive, the female main character Naoe seems to be quite attractive, at least in cut scenes.
Or that.
Wait, does CDPR even count as "Western" ?
On the whole i won't complain too much about current designs. Sure, sometimes there are stinkers, but ~ 15 years ago the situation was not much better. Studios might have tried more universally for sex appeal and you would rarely see a female protagonist/love interest that was not supposed to be sexy. But all had the same idea what sexy means : very skinny, optionally with big breasts that doen't fit the rest of the proportions. You will generally find less curves in old games than in new ones if the curves in question are not breasts.
I found it quite annoying as those mismatched breast size/body types pushed many designs into uncanny valley territory for me.
Last edited:
It's also worth mentioning that the West didn't even have the best track record when it came to (human) character designs. You compare games from Japan to the West during the PS2 era, and Japan ate the West's lunch every single time. It's only during the PS3/360 era that western games started to catch up a tad when it came to character design and ingame character models, but Japan is still overall beter at it. Even now, I like the new God of War and Spider-Man games (minus SM2), but the character designs are still pretty tepid, or in Spider-Man's case downright flat and generic.
What really killed that MJ design in Spider-Man 2 was removing that original hairdo; the one thing that gave her design a bit of personality. Without it you're left with a rather awkward generic face and generic long hair. Similar to Peter's bed head. Regardless MJ sucked in the first game anyway, and the fact that people got this upset over her redesign, and this alone, shows they either never played the previous game or have really short term memory.
What really killed that MJ design in Spider-Man 2 was removing that original hairdo; the one thing that gave her design a bit of personality. Without it you're left with a rather awkward generic face and generic long hair. Similar to Peter's bed head. Regardless MJ sucked in the first game anyway, and the fact that people got this upset over her redesign, and this alone, shows they either never played the previous game or have really short term memory.
Huh, you're complaining about dual wielding pistols being unrealistic in a Tomb Raider game/show/movie? Tomb Raider is just using fun action movie type logic. Dual wielding pistols is perfectly inline with what Tomb Raider is going for. Tomb Raider doesn't get as wacky and cartoon-y as say Indiana Jones (that has a Scooby Doo bit in it) but it's not a very serious/practical/realistic world either. As long as the model (or actress for live-action) looks muscularly tone (or in shape) in really any kind of manner, that's good enough for Tomb Raider.
What about the women complaining about the new Dragonage not letting them be busty or true to themselves? Do they not count? The pretty girl doesn't just exist for the male gaze, it's a ludicrous notion. People regardless of gender like seeing pretty people, and when it comes to entertainment they would rather watch pretty people than realistic people.
I think Angela Jolie and Alisha Vikander both served Lara very well in live action and those two women have very very different body types. It's fine to be leaner and more toned, but not at the cost of the femininity. Lara is admirable because she's still got the softness of a woman and is (or becomes) a badass on top of that. Lara and James Bond I think fill the same sort of niche, sexy when needed, badass always.
And believe me, I would be making these same arguments if they did this shit to male characters but unfortunately male heroes are always build like Ambercrombe and Fitch Models. Always jacked always, six-pack abs, sometimes lean like Cloud Strife, sometimes a walking tank like Kratos, but never not manly.
I do not almost constantly drown in the backsplash of lesbians constantly thirsting over videogame women to let "western devs don't make sexy women" pass by without comment.
The vast majority of videogame character creators don't have my body type either, they can suck it up. There's plenty of busty options in the new Dragon Age game, you just have to pick a base body type that isn't "stick"
This is an interesting paragraph because despite intending to show a consistent standard, it displays an inconsistency in how you approach the two.
Your contention seems to be that female characters are sometimes not presented as traditionally feminine (which is bad), and that meanwhile male characters are always presented as traditionally masculine. But you describe that as "unfortunate".
Why do you think it's unfortunate...? Characters all fitting a homogeneous traditional gender role is exactly what you're saying you want for female characters, so why would it be unfortunate?
I'm saying that they are trying to erase the standard for women but not for men. And keep in mind having women of different body types is fine, but when you erase femintity from existing characters then it's a stupid "problem". The Unfortunate part in regards to the men is that for all the claims of toxic masculinity, and whatnot, why is it still acceptable for the men to remain hyper perfect men in terms of body, but not okay for that to be the case with the women?
The push to erase the notion of gender really seems to only ever apply to women, why is that? Why is it not happening to the male characters. I don't want it to happen to either, but why is it only happening to one sex? Nobody seems to be reimagining Nathan Drake as a gay femboy, why not? It seems perfectly okay to make Lara gay and masculine and couple erase her old identity under the guise of "realism". Where is my lean cross-fit dick sucking Nathan Drake then?
Astarion in Baldur's Gate 3 says hi if you want to talk about feminine leaning men. As for Lara being considered "masculine" now that she has muscles...isn't that an issue, that visible muscles are considered strictly a men's thing?
ETA: Not to dismiss toxic masculinity as being a problem, mind you. People flipped the FUCK out when James Bond implied he was bisexual in Skyfall, and I do agree that they really shouldn't. However, it is very possible to see both as a problem without dismissing either one out of hand.
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,495
- 2,981
- 118
- Country
- 'Merica
- Gender
- 3 children in a trench coat
Like I said, the original Lara Croft design was just "rule of cool" which worked fine when the games weren't attempting gritty realism. Once the games moved into more high fidelity realism territory with the 2013 reboot by Crystal Dynamics the more cartoonish elements wouldn't have fit.
In fact I would say that the less grounded and more cartoony style would have worked much better for the current animated series, which is part of why animated Lara just doesn't work as well. She's too grounded and not cartoony enough for being in a cartoon.
Feminine? Feminine?! What you obviously meant to say was drop-dead gorgeous.
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,495
- 2,981
- 118
- Country
- 'Merica
- Gender
- 3 children in a trench coat
I think you've described the live action Tom Holland Nathan Drake.
I joke.
Seriously though, you seem to have forgotten the shitstorm over Dante's redesign for DmC Devil May Cry and how people were screaming that he was too feminine and that they made him look like a lesbian.
Last edited:
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,495
- 2,981
- 118
- Country
- 'Merica
- Gender
- 3 children in a trench coat
I think the cartoon Lara is based on this design from Shadow of the Tomb Raider
‘Shadow of the Tomb Raider’ – Cosplayers Guide
Ever since the “End of the Beginning” trailer made its public debut on April 27, cosplayers around the world have been begging for reference pictures of Lara Croft’s Shadow of the…
tombraiderhorizons.com
When these discussions come up anything that isn't from Japan, Korea, or China get lumped together as "western."
Except she looks fantastic here. I have no complains about the new lara though the 3rd game had a shit story and lara is a twat in the game, her design is great. Notice that in this picture she has toned arms but her womanly shape remains.
The way I look at it is this. There's no denying there is a double standard when it comes to what men are supposed to look like in media versus what women are supposed to look like. The real issue is how to handle it. You seem to think that the solution should be to go back to the way things were, where women are busty waifs and men are manly men with biceps that have biceps. I think the better solution is to continue what they are doing to diversify women, while also putting the same effort into diversifying men.
I won't argue that they seem to be focusing more on diversifying women than men. I can find examples of less traditionally masculine males than even 5 years ago, but it's a lot easier to spot less traditionally feminine women. I just think the way to solve the dichotomy is to make more of the former, not less of the latter.
I won't argue that they seem to be focusing more on diversifying women than men. I can find examples of less traditionally masculine males than even 5 years ago, but it's a lot easier to spot less traditionally feminine women. I just think the way to solve the dichotomy is to make more of the former, not less of the latter.
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,495
- 2,981
- 118
- Country
- 'Merica
- Gender
- 3 children in a trench coat
You keep saying "womanly shape" and I still don't know what you mean.
Here's the model render from Shadow of the Tomb Raider:
Here's the upcoming Tomb Raider reboot
Bust size looks about the same, or bigger on the newer version. Hips are more prominent and waist is skinnier on the newer version.
Yet for some reason you think the first design is better because it's "more womanly" in some way.
And yes, I agree that the top design is better than the bottom design, but apparently not for the same reasons that you do.