US 2024 Presidential Election

Silvanus

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Mm, yes, we should all hope the next murder is committed by a serial killer, that would be so much better than if it were a first-timer.
This reply doesn't address the scenario in any way whatsoever, so I can only assume either you're refusing to engage with it or you've failed to understand it.

Here's a hint: the point of the scenario had nothing to do with what we "hope" happens or what would be "better". It was about how we determine probability of outcomes, & how that's very much affected by the inclinations of people and the alternative actions they may take.
 
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Elijin

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I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say so I'm just going to nod my head and smile
He's trying to insinuate your opinions lack nuance and you're just anti-republican as a reflex, and thus anti democrat when they do things Republicans are doing.

This is in spite of you clearly outlining its policy decisions you're unhappy with. He essentially is trying to boil down your opposition as purely tribal revulsion of Republicans and not thought out or worth merit. He does it a lot. One of his go to 'we're not that bad, you just hate us' bits.
 

BrawlMan

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Fucking lol.
Losers!

 

The Rogue Wolf

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tippy2k2

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He's trying to insinuate your opinions lack nuance and you're just anti-republican as a reflex, and thus anti democrat when they do things Republicans are doing.

This is in spite of you clearly outlining its policy decisions you're unhappy with. He essentially is trying to boil down your opposition as purely tribal revulsion of Republicans and not thought out or worth merit. He does it a lot. One of his go to 'we're not that bad, you just hate us' bits.
I'm anti-shitty ideas. It's not my fault that so many Republican ideas are shitty and then Democrats copy those shitty ideas.

If I hated an idea just because it was a Republican idea, I'd be a #VBNMW Democrat who is against the border wall, genocide, and various other things when TEAM RED is for it but ignoring it and/or celebrating it when TEAM BLUE is for it.
 
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Seanchaidh

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This reply doesn't address the scenario in any way whatsoever
The scenario was entirely irrelevant.

Here's a hint: the point of the scenario had nothing to do with what we "hope" happens or what would be "better". It was about how we determine probability of outcomes, & how that's very much affected by the inclinations of people and the alternative actions they may take.
Which doesn't matter at all.
 
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I'm anti-shitty ideas. It's not my fault that so many Republican ideas are shitty and then Democrats copy those shitty ideas.

We have all been made well aware of Repub’s various brands of bs over the years but funny thing is it’s kinda the opposite in some respects. Back in post civil war up to early 20th century days, it was primarily Dem’s that aligned with the old south mentality aka slave holders, KKK, etc. Then when civil rights came more into the picture they had to shift gears politically to make it appear they were “for” minorities, but really it was just a different form of control. Control of minds and hearts for votes to keep them in power, and to put it bluntly the Dem’s are just plain better at it. All one has to do is look up quotes of LBJ to realize it was an elite power play disguised as compassion. To know who has the most pull we only need to look at who controls the narrative (IE corporate media).




Not gonna argue with her that’s for sure.
 
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BrawlMan

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We have all been made well aware of Repub’s various brands of bs over the years but funny thing is it’s kinda the opposite in some respects. Back in post civil war up to early 20th century days, it was primarily Dem’s that aligned with the old south mentality aka slave holders, KKK, etc. Then when civil rights came more into the picture they had to shift gears politically to make it appear they were “for” minorities, but really it was just a different form of control. Control of minds and hearts for votes to keep them in power, and to put it bluntly the Dem’s are just plain better at it. All one has to do is look up quotes of LBJ to realize it was an elite power play disguised as compassion. To know who has the most pull we only need to look at who controls the narrative (IE corporate media).




Not gonna argue with her that’s for sure.
I listen to most of the video and while I see where she's coming from. Trump did not listen to us as blacks at all. All he did. It was hire a bunch of cronies that no longer became useful to him and dumped him the moment it was convenient. Obama I know it's not even close to perfect, but at least actually tried getting some stuff done. He did only for the Trump to fuck it all up or make a bad situation even worse. At least Obama actually locked down on a virus before it could spread. While Trump knew about it and sat on his wrinkly ass and did nothing until he got infected. It's funny how she conveniently forgets nor mentions that part. That's all I have to really say, because i'm not in the mood.
 

Seanchaidh

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"Failed to understand" it is.
Successfully recognized bullshit as bullshit.

To your decision-making process, maybe. To the actual outcome of the election, and how rational observers can evaluate likely outcomes of certain actions, it factually does.
If I vote Green, it adds a vote to the Green total. If I vote Blue, it adds a vote to the Blue total. If I vote Red, it adds a vote to the Red total. Any voter can do any one of these things, which necessarily means not doing the others (unless they're committing the most pointless felony). If a vote for Green is a vote for Red because it is not a vote or Blue, then by the same logic it is a vote for Blue because it is not a vote for Red. Probabilities do not enter into it.
 
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I listen to most of the video and while I see where she's coming from. Trump did not listen to us as blacks at all. All he did. It was hire a bunch of cronies that no longer became useful to him and dumped him the moment it was convenient. Obama I know it's not even close to perfect, but at least actually tried getting some stuff done. He did only for the Trump to fuck it all up or make a bad situation even worse. At least Obama actually locked down on a virus before it could spread. While Trump knew about it and sat on his wrinkly ass and did nothing until he got infected. It's funny how she conveniently forgets nor mentions that part. That's all I have to really say, because i'm not in the mood.
“The public health system has a playbook to follow for pandemic preparation — regardless of who’s president or whether specific instructions are coming from the White House. Those plans were put into place in anticipation of another flu pandemic, but are designed to work for any respiratory-borne disease.”



When Trump wanted travel bans early on the press called hlm a xenophobe.







Could not have been handled better? Of course, especially in hindsight. But it was rather unprecedented and health professionals/institutions clearly weren’t on the same page over what to do for one reason or another. I remember it being downplayed a lot at first too. Maybe to not cause a panic, but pretty much ended up damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
 

BrawlMan

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When Trump wanted travel bans early on the press called hlm a xenophobe.
I don't recall that, but I do recall him sitting on his ass about it. If they did, fuck them too and I don't care right now. He still knew and didn't do anything until it was way too late and after the fact.

remember it being downplayed a lot at first too. Maybe to not cause a panic, but pretty much ended up damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
There was down playing. Trump downplayed the effects of virus (multiple times) and told people they can inject themselves with disinfect spary to prevent it from happening. 2 people actually tried it and died. An older married couple. The CDC had to put out a statement and the Lysol company too. All of that shit tracks and we still have the covid thread. Remember? At least the CDC actually went out and did their job. I give no thanks to Trump at all because he sat on his ass and didn't do anything till the last minute. Mister "take the vaccine, if you choose" to vaccine deniers who don't want to take it and he encouraged them not to do it. Let's not downplay any of his shit. How you forgot this is beyond me.




Once again, at least Obama had a virus on lockdown early and made sure to keep it contained in quarantine and didn't wait at the last minute.



 
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Hades

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Could not have been handled better? Of course, especially in hindsight. But it was rather unprecedented and health professionals/institutions clearly weren’t on the same page over what to do for one reason or another. I remember it being downplayed a lot at first too. Maybe to not cause a panic, but pretty much ended up damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
That's just gibberish. Loudly shouting on tv that the dangerous pandemic is a hoax and that it will go away in the spring carries implications you'll do nothing about it which is far more likely to cause a panic then just saying there is a pandemic but that the nation can get through it.

Real leaders chose the later option, while frauds like Trump took the former one. Those who knew Covid was real got exactly zero reassurances from Trump, and those that weren't sure were probably spooked when it became clear it was real, and that their government had operated under the deluded assumption it wasn't.
 

Silvanus

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Successfully recognized bullshit as bullshit.
That would require comprehension. Talking about "hope" and "better" was a dead giveaway you didn't reach that point.

If I vote Green, it adds a vote to the Green total. If I vote Blue, it adds a vote to the Blue total. If I vote Red, it adds a vote to the Red total. Any voter can do any one of these things, which necessarily means not doing the others (unless they're committing the most pointless felony). If a vote for Green is a vote for Red because it is not a vote or Blue, then by the same logic it is a vote for Blue because it is not a vote for Red. Probabilities do not enter into it.
A vote for Green isn't a vote for Red, and nobody here argued it was (well, except Lawrence O'Donnell, who's an idiot).

You obviously have no interest in engaging with what I actually argued, which is absolutely fine, you're under no obligation to do so. Nor am I particularly inclined to handhold you through it. So it'd seem that's the dead end.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Could not have been handled better? Of course, especially in hindsight. But it was rather unprecedented and health professionals/institutions clearly weren’t on the same page over what to do for one reason or another. I remember it being downplayed a lot at first too. Maybe to not cause a panic, but pretty much ended up damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
The US government was not the only on faced with the problem, and it handled it particularly badly compared with most of the developed world. Notable exception of the UK who also really botched the response.
 

Seanchaidh

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That would require comprehension.
Not necessarily true, but that's neither here nor there.

Are you typically "relieved" to find out something that isn't better than the alternative? Does your "despair increase" when you find out something that you would neither have hoped for nor against? Do you frequently try to claim someone hasn't understood you by pointing out their use of synonyms for the concepts you were using?

Talking about "hope" and "better" was a dead giveaway you didn't reach that point.

A vote for Green isn't a vote for Red, and nobody here argued it was (well, except Lawrence O'Donnell, who's an idiot).
You want Trump supporters to vote third party instead not because any third party candidate is better than Trump (which they typically are) but because it's not a vote for Trump from someone you expected might vote for Trump. Really deep. Also completely irrelevant to anything tippy2k2 was writing. You're not writing to Harris supporters. You are writing to people who are against Harris just as they are against Trump because both are completely terrible. And anyway, Trump supporters and Harris supporters and the third-party inclined all get the same ballots. They should all vote for a third party because the duopoly candidates are, once again, completely terrible.

You obviously have no interest in engaging with what I actually argued, which is absolutely fine, you're under no obligation to do so. Nor am I particularly inclined to handhold you through it. So it'd seem that's the dead end.
Ferric.
 
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Silvanus

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Are you typically "relieved" to find out something that isn't better than the alternative? Does your "despair increase" when you find out something that you would neither have hoped for nor against? Do you frequently try to claim someone hasn't understood you by pointing out their use of synonyms for the concepts you were using?
The value judgements weren't important to the point about probability, though i thought they'd be illustrative and let us skip a few steps later. I can rewrite it to be tone-neutral if that'd make it easier.

You want Trump supporters to vote third party instead not because any third party candidate is better than Trump (which they typically are) but because it's not a vote for Trump from someone you expected might vote for Trump. Really deep.
K, two posts on a row just making stuff up that I never expressed and attributing it to me. This one even seems to be a non-sequitur. Is this all you got now? Can I have a go?
 
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Seanchaidh

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The value judgements weren't important to the point about probability, though i thought they'd be illustrative and let us skip a few steps later. I can rewrite it to be tone-neutral if that'd make it easier.
They also weren't important to my point about how the probability is irrelevant. Incredible.

K, two posts on a row just making stuff up that I never expressed and attributing it to me. That all you got? Can I have a go?
My sincerest apologies for figuring out the subtext from a guy who wanted me to vote for Biden and Hillary.
 
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tstorm823

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This is in spite of you clearly outlining its policy decisions you're unhappy with. He essentially is trying to boil down your opposition as purely tribal revulsion of Republicans and not thought out or worth merit. He does it a lot. One of his go to 'we're not that bad, you just hate us' bits.
Republicans can be bad, that doesn't change the "you just hate us" bit. Open border policies don't make sense on any level. They do not advance peace, they do not promote prosperity, they aren't good for humanitarian efforts, it's crap on every level. The only reasons anyone supports open borders is if they are A) a Stalinist supporting crap positions on purpose because they want the west to collapse or B) so addicted the high of socially validated hatred that they oppose any policy Republicans support without any further consideration.