US 2024 Presidential Election

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Democrats are evil. Republicans are evil. The only way to make that evilness not happen is to not vote for either of them!
If that truly is your only way, you're just going to watch what you fear would happen happen anyway.

If it's just 'fuck you both, I really don't care since you both suck, I have my principles', fine I guess, but to act like you're not putting yourself out of commission by (pressumably) voting third party is naive. This long con of ignoring the two party system has not made much of any headway. Not by just voting third party and hoping it'll stick eventually anyway.
 
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Silvanus

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Electoral defeats, starting at the midterms. Especially note that Trump himself is insulated, but the downticket Rs aren't nearly as tough. They won the senate, but only by a small amount, and most contested R elections underperformed Trump himself. He has a devoted cult, not the party.
I think we've just been shown that it doesn't matter what he says. The "will of the people" line won't do any more damage than "floating island of garbage", or all the other batshit racism. Why would it? He has never been careful about what he says, and the worse it is, the more it gets rewarded.

Electoral defeat would require people to vote for someone else. It's been made abundantly clear that preventing the fascist taking power isn't enough, and whoever stands against him will have a skeleton somewhere, because everyone does. So Trump's opponents will stay home. Punishing him for the arrogance of "will of the people" will absolutely, 100% not motivate them to turn out.

I like the optimism. But I'm really fucking depressed about future prospects. I feel like I've been given the strongest possible message that the country is fundamentally and intensely hostile to people like me. I'm sure that'll be reflected again and again.
 
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meiam

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I'm reminded of something a bloke called de Maistre once said: "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite"
Still suck for the millions who voted Harris (the Trump voter/no show/3rd party can get bent). Also suck for the rest of the world who didn't get a vote but will suffer the consequence, we can console ourselves that American will have it worse.
 
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Seanchaidh

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If that truly is your only way, you're just going to watch what you fear would happen happen anyway.

If it's just 'fuck you both, I really don't care since you both suck, I have my principles', fine I guess, but to act like you're not putting yourself out of commission by (pressumably) voting third party is naive. This long con of ignoring the two party system has not made much of any headway. Not by just voting third party and hoping it'll stick eventually anyway.
The Democratic Party is vacuous and evil. The Republican Party is false and evil. At least one must perish for genuine improvement to occur.
 

Jarrito3002

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In fairness, Bernie Sanders by himself has been a more effective 3rd party on a federal level than the Green Party under Jill Stein
All this talk of Dems failing this and having no epectations for Republicans that lets give some energy to the third parties.

I know system is fucked but for years something anything to get start at least ground level and local.

Lets be real 3rd parties really show up during election season to give the illusion of multiparty and then disappear into oblivion. Hot take most people who hype up 3rd parties just love the feeling of superiority of being above it all and either knowing or unaware of their status to not be too affected by who gets in and dismiss the collateral of other people.

I have voted for green to get in circuit courts, sanitation and anything on lower level to get their weight up to no avail.

So Jill and your boy Butch get the moving and grinding and pray the your elected VP treating abortion as a "60/40" don't have people giving you a more critical eye you may not be ready for.
 
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Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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The Democratic Party is vacuous and evil. The Republican Party is false and evil. At least one must perish for genuine improvement to occur.
Which will happen by voting third party and doing nothing else how? The only way to dismantle the current two party system requires much more drastic measures, unless you're actually undertaking those on the sly. But if not, voting third party will do far less good than voting Democrat. I guess you'll feel good about yourself, but you're really not doing anything else.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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In 2019, employment was up, real wages were up, housing costs relative to wages were down, violent crime was down, American participation in foreign wars was down, public unrest was almost non-existent. Sure sounds like hell to me...
You think wages are going to go up under "let's joke with Musk about firing unions who strike" Trump? Violent crime has been going down for years; wages and housing costs have a lot to do with fallout from COVID (and I won't pretend that there's a whole lot Trump could've done about some of them). As for the public unrest, a whole lot of that seems to be coming from the right.

Democrats are evil. Republicans are evil. The only way to make that evilness not happen is to not vote for either of them!
Well don't you worry none. If Trump behaves the way I think he will, you'll never have to worry about how Americans vote ever again- because we won't be able to.
 
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crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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I think we've just been shown that it doesn't matter what he says. The "will of the people" line won't do any more damage than "floating island of garbage", or all the other batshit racism. Why would it? He has never been careful about what he says, and the worse it is, the more it gets rewarded.
I don't mean speaking it, I mean governing on that attitude. I'm saying his support isn't actually any better than it was 4 years ago when he lost because of his inept rule.

Electoral defeat would require people to vote for someone else. It's been made abundantly clear that preventing the fascist taking power isn't enough, and whoever stands against him will have a skeleton somewhere, because everyone does. So Trump's opponents will stay home. Punishing him for the arrogance of "will of the people" will absolutely, 100% not motivate them to turn out.
If only you realized this when it was repeated to you constantly.

I like the optimism. But I'm really fucking depressed about future prospects. I feel like I've been given the strongest possible message that the country is fundamentally and intensely hostile to people like me. I'm sure that'll be reflected again and again.
Yeah, centrists don't do well here it seems.
 

Seanchaidh

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Which will happen by voting third party and doing nothing else how? The only way to dismantle the current two party system requires much more drastic measures, unless you're actually undertaking those on the sly. But if not, voting third party will do far less good than voting Democrat. I guess you'll feel good about yourself, but you're really not doing anything else.
Voting third party and doing nothing else is more helpful than voting for a Republican or a Democrat, because any vote for a Republican or a Democrat counterproductively strengthens the illusion of their popular support.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Jesus Fucking Christ...

Internet searches for "Did Joe Biden drop out" jumped on election night, suggesting that some Americans had no idea the current president was not running again.

The spike began around 6 a.m. on Election Day, and continued to rise over the course of the day until reaching its peak at midnight Wednesday, according to Google Trends. After a brief drop overnight, searches for the question spike again around 8 a.m.
Imagine knowing so little about politics that you had no idea Joe Biden had dropped out of the race over 3 months ago. Wild.

I imagine those people didn't vote, and never planned to vote, and only found out who the candidates were when they started looking at the election results. Still I can only imagine people showing up at the polls, starting to fill out their ballots and panicking because they can't find Joe Biden and desperately googling to figure out why.
 

meiam

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I don't mean speaking it, I mean governing on that attitude. I'm saying his support isn't actually any better than it was 4 years ago when he lost because of his inept rule.
Thats more or less the message of this election, republican will vote literally anything if it has an R next to it, Biden could have replaced Trump and they still would have all voted for him with that magic R. But large swaths of Democrat voter are fickle and will show up only if they feel like it.
 
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Silvanus

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If only you realized this when it was repeated to you constantly.
I knew beforehand it could happen. I hoped it wouldn't, but knew it could. And I know it's likely to happen at midterms too; voters won't start punishing Republicans for governing like kings. They can do and say what they want. There's no limit.

Anyway. I'm already in a pit of self-loathing after seeing such an overwhelming expression of hate towards marginalised people and others like me. I'm really not interested in getting shat on yet again here. So if that's the way this is going to go, please just skip it.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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Thats more or less the message of this election, republican will vote literally anything if it has an R next to it, Biden could have replaced Trump and they still would have all voted for him with that magic R. But large swaths of Democrat voter are fickle and will show up only if they feel like it.
That's the problem when you don't expect your constituency to be cultists and have critical thinking skills.

I knew beforehand it could happen. I hoped it wouldn't, but knew it could. And I know it's likely to happen at midterms too; voters won't start punishing Republicans for governing like kings. They can do and say what they want. There's no limit.

Anyway. I'm already in a pit of self-loathing after seeing such an overwhelming expression of hate towards marginalised people and others like me. I'm really not interested in getting shat on yet again here. So if that's the way this is going to go, please just skip it.
But all your energy was spent telling people like me otherwise. To only admit it at a loss is a bit galling.
 

Silvanus

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But all your energy was spent telling people like me otherwise. To only admit it at a loss is a bit galling.
No, i was talking about how I thought people should use their energy and votes, not making predictions about how they would or could.

But it doesn't matter. That discussion is in the past, the approach I had encouraged was roundly rejected.

And now its done, do you seriously want to spend your posting time shitting on despondent people? Or just me? I'm almost certain to lose the right to marry in the states, probably to adopt, and protections from legal & workplace discrimination. But god forbid i feel shit about it, eh? I wanted people to vote a different way to you, so I must be repeatedly denigrated even after losing.

Fucking hell I'm tired.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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No, i was talking about how I thought people should use their energy and votes, not making predictions about how they would or could.

But it doesn't matter. That discussion is in the past, the approach I had encouraged was roundly rejected.

And now its done, do you seriously want to spend your posting time shitting on despondent people? Or just me? I'm almost certain to lose the right to marry in the states, probably to adopt, and protections from legal & workplace discrimination. But god forbid i feel shit about it, eh? I wanted people to vote a different way to you, so I must be repeatedly denigrated even after losing.

Fucking hell I'm tired.
I want people to demand better from their politicians, and as I recall you're British anyway, not that having empathy for others is bad or anything, but turning it into something about yourself is kinda weird, ngl.
 

Silvanus

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I want people to demand better from their politicians, and as I recall you're British anyway, not that having empathy for others is bad or anything, but turning it into something about yourself is kinda weird, ngl.
It's not about me. When policies are targeted directly at people like you, there's going to be a feeling of vulnerability and hostility, particularly if you may have previously considered moving country (as I have) or when it shares so much of its culture with your own.

I tried to be a bit more detached about it before when I said "people like me", but you turned that into an excuse to insult me again, so I then wanted to be a bit more explicit about what I meant.

Whatever. If shitting on people feeling miserable is how you want to spend your post-election time, have at it. I really don't have the energy to be shat on anymore.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
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So, social media is basically so radioactive right now that its servers could probably be converted into power plants. A lot of hand wringing because it seems demonstrably proven that the Democratic National Convention couldn’t organise a bunk up in a brothel even when they cheat. I don’t know enough about how US candidate selection works to know if it was illegal or just party room chicanery that’s legal but makes you look like a knob.

Whatever, your side fucked it Democrats, fucked it like they paid for it with someone else’s money. So, big two questions: which poor unfortunate soul are you going to start prepping for 2028 - seriously it weirds me out how little time actual governance seems to occur - and are you going to take a big old look in the mirror about all this or are you too scared your own visage will turn you to stone?
 
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crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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It's not about me. When policies are targeted directly at people like you, there's going to be a feeling of vulnerability and hostility, particularly if you may have previously considered moving country (as I have) or when it shares so much of its culture with your own.

I tried to be a bit more detached about it before when I said "people like me", but you turned that into an excuse to insult me again, so I then wanted to be a bit more explicit about what I meant.

Whatever. If shitting on people feeling miserable is how you want to spend your post-election time, have at it. I really don't have the energy to be shat on anymore.
But you started it off framing it in personal terms, "me", "I", how bad *you* felt. And that you've suddenly seen the light on how things work, it just comes off as disingenuous.