US 2024 Presidential Election

tippy2k2

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Which is all the same holier-than-thou stuff. So it wasn't just in response to people telling you you have to vote a certain way. It was directed towards anyone voting outside the 0.4%, even tactically.
If all it takes to qualify as "Holier than Thou" is criticizing choices that people make then sure, Tippy is Holier Than Though to everyone.

I'm gonna go out and start blessing things. Maybe I can at least make some money being a Holy Man.
 
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Silvanus

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If all it takes to qualify as "Holier than Though" is criticizing choices that people make then sure, Tippy is Holier Than Though to everyone.
Obviously it's not. It's the whole attitude: insisting the only reason people could vote a different way is that they simply don't care as much as you about genocide. It's arrogant and moralistic, and makes zero effort to comprehend the other person's actual thought process. That's what makes it holier-than-thou.

And don't get me wrong, a good few Dem voters have exhibited similar attitudes in this thread too.
 

tippy2k2

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Obviously it's not. It's the whole attitude: insisting the only reason people could vote a different way is that they simply don't care as much as you about genocide. It's arrogant and moralistic, and makes zero effort to comprehend the other person's actual thought process. That's what makes it holier-than-thou.

And don't get me wrong, a good few Dem voters have exhibited similar attitudes in this thread too.
I mean...yeah, if the shoe fits. It's hard to believe that people voting for Harris, who has specifically stated she agreed with everything Biden did in the past and will make sure Israel will always have the weapons it needs to "Defend Itself" care that much about the Genocide. Harris made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that she had no intention of putting up any kind of real resistance towards Israel genociding an entire people.

So yeah...you might not be Pro-Genocide if you vote for Harris but Genocide is clearly not a deal breaker for you (and as I've stated before, in the short hand that might be beneficial but I 100% down to the pit of my very soul believe that telling Democrats this message would ultimately have far more dire consequences, we just wouldn't get to see them for another election or two). You might have had any number of other valid reasons to vote for Harris but people saying it was because Harris will stop Israel from doing a Genocide are either lying to us or they're lying to themselves. If telling the truth makes me holier than thou, then y'all can refer to me as Pope Tippy
 
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Silvanus

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I mean...yeah, if the shoe fits. It's hard to believe that people voting for Harris, who has specifically stated she agreed with everything Biden did in the past and will make sure Israel will always have the weapons it needs to "Defend Itself" care that much about the Genocide. Harris made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that she had no intention of putting up any kind of real resistance towards Israel genociding an entire people.

So yeah...you might not be Pro-Genocide if you vote for Harris but Genocide is clearly not a deal breaker for you (and as I've stated before, in the short hand that might be beneficial but I 100% down to the pit of my very soul believe that telling Democrats this message would ultimately have far more dire consequences, we just wouldn't get to see them for another election or two). You might have had any number of other valid reasons to vote for Harris but people saying it was because Harris will stop Israel from doing a Genocide are either lying to us or they're lying to themselves. If telling the truth makes me holier than thou, then y'all can refer to me as Pope Tippy
Yeah, we've heard all of this, i know this is what you think. But then don't go and pretend you're only throwing hands when others do it to you, or that you're only denigrating people who tell you you must vote a certain way. You're not.
 

Casual Shinji

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As soon as you show me how voting Harris stopped the bombs
It wouldn't have, it would've stopped a dictator from rising to power in one of the most powerful countries in the world. If you can't understand what this means for the people who would be most affected by this you really have some blinders on.
You might have had any number of other valid reasons to vote for Harris but people saying it was because Harris will stop Israel from doing a Genocide are either lying to us or they're lying to themselves.
Yeah, who exactly claimed this?
 
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Phoenixmgs

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50 % of what Trump says is exactly this. He goes further and suggests a regulation on who can vote or be elected

Perhaps the Dems need to make ridiculous claims... well, more ridiculous
When has he said this? You guys just make up shit Trump says. And then it doesn't even matter if Trump says what you want to hear because then you all just say he's lying.

So the left pointing out how the "uneducated" voted for Trump and saying it's the basically "the worst thing that has ever happened" is not them at all implying that certain people shouldn't be voting?
 

tippy2k2

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Yeah, we've heard all of this, i know this is what you think. But then don't go and pretend you're only throwing hands when others do it to you, or that you're only denigrating people who tell you you must vote a certain way. You're not.
If you're feeling attacked by me when I lash out against The Pro-Genocide Candidate, then sure, I guess I'm denigrating everyone, not just people who keep coming to me in this thread saying that I have to vote for The Lesser Evil who had decided Genocide counts as a Lesser Evil.

It wouldn't have, it would've stopped a dictator from rising to power in one of the most powerful countries in the world. If you can't understand what this means for the people who would be most affected by this you really have some blinders on.
Yeah, who exactly claimed this?
I have said, repeatedly and often, that I understand why people voted Harris. I just wish these people would show me the same courtesy when I say I refuse to vote for the Pro-Genocide candidate.

As to "who exactly claimed this", you can't be serious, right? It has been the rallying cry of the #VBNMW crowd and Democratic Pundits that hey, a Genocide is going to happen either way so you might as well vote for the person who might one day grow the spine to stand up to Israel. Even now, you can't look at #VBNMW Twitter without seeing a bunch of them screaming that they hope we're all happy that Trump won because "now we'll all see what a Genocide in Gaza looks like"...


TBF (to my knowledge at least), no one in this thread has ever stated that they think that Harris would be better than Trump on Gaza but to me, that's tomato tomatoe. Ultimately when voting for Harris, you are accepting that Palestine is expendable in your fight. I understand why you might think that is for the best but I wholeheartedly believe that giving Harris and The Democrats the knowledge that genocide isn't a Red Line for voters would have far worse consequences. We wouldn't see those consequences for another election or two most likely but once you've given them the greenlight to do a literal war crime, there is nothing they can't do and no group that they can't burn in their quest to stay in power. This time it is Palestine (and immigrants and at least hinted at Transgender People with her chickenshit "State Rights!!!" answer to Transgender healthcare) but next time Democrats decide a minority group is expendable, it might end up being one you care about.
 
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Silvanus

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If you're feeling attacked by me when I lash out against The Pro-Genocide Candidate, then sure, I guess I'm denigrating everyone, not just people who keep coming to me in this thread saying that I have to vote for The Lesser Evil who had decided Genocide counts as a Lesser Evil.
No, not "lashing out against the pro-genocide candidate", i couldn't care less about that (and frequently criticise her myself).

But attributing mega hateful thought processes to people who don't vote the same way as you. Again, I wouldn't care much in isolation, you do you. But doing so and then pretending you only do it when people come at you first...? No, that's bollocks. Fling shade, own it, don't pretend its just retaliatory or restricted to those telling you how to act.

I have said, repeatedly and often, that I understand why people voted Harris.
And also shown, repeatedly and often, that that's a fib.
 

thebobmaster

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The real problem is that, according to you, there were four options.

Option 1: Vote the way you did.

Option 2: Don't vote, in which case you are just allowing everyone else to speak for you, and therefore have no room to complain when they say the wrong thing.

Option 3: Vote pro-genocide.

Option 4: Vote pro-genocide, pro-sexism, totalitarianisms, and pro-racism.

Now, if I'm misrepresenting Option 2, and you think not voting at all was just as valid as voting for Jill Stein, feel free to correct me. But I feel quite uncomfortable being told that by voting for Harris while holding my breath and banging my head on the table that it's come to this to try to prevent what has happened that I'm OK with genocide.
 
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tippy2k2

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The real problem is that, according to you, there were four options.

Option 1: Vote the way you did.

Option 2: Don't vote, in which case you are just allowing everyone else to speak for you, and therefore have no room to complain when they say the wrong thing.

Option 3: Vote pro-genocide.

Option 4: Vote pro-genocide, pro-sexism, totalitarianisms, and pro-racism.

Now, if I'm misrepresenting Option 2, and you think not voting at all was just as valid as voting for Jill Stein, feel free to correct me. But I feel quite uncomfortable being told that by voting for Harris while holding my breath and banging my head on the table that it's come to this to try to prevent what has happened that I'm OK with genocide.
I mean, there are plenty of options for people to do. I do think that not voting or voting Harris are the wrong options but I understand why people would do them.

I can sugar coat it if you'd rather but if you vote Harris, you might not be OK with the Genocide but you are telling her that Genocide is NOT a deal breaker the same way that someone might not be OK with Trump's Racism but that his Racism is not a deal breaker for them.

Which as I've stated, in the short term maybe it would help as it would get Trump to lose but I strongly feel that in the long term, we'd all pay for it. You can disagree with me on that position but I 100% believe in that and there's nothing anyone here will be able to say to make me change my mind on that. Telling The Democrats (by voting for them) that a Genocide can't even be a Red Line for your vote is sending them a very loud and clear message on what they can get away with in the future.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Which as I've stated, in the short term maybe it would help as it would get Trump to lose but I strongly feel that in the long term, we'd all pay for it. You can disagree with me on that position but I 100% believe in that and there's nothing anyone here will be able to say to make me change my mind on that. Telling The Democrats (by voting for them) that a Genocide can't even be a Red Line for your vote is sending them a very loud and clear message on what they can get away with in the future.
Surely for that to be true, the Democrats would have to realise that supporting genocide has hurt their political position, and move away from it? I don't expect them to stop supporting Israel, win or lose, or stop going right on other issues. As such, a vote for them while committing genocide isn't going to encourage them to become worse, they'll do that anyway.

But, ok, if you believe that will make them worse (and that there will be free and fair elections after at least 4 years of Trump, which I'm not sure of), and if that will hurt worse than the Republicans being in power, long term, it follows that voting Democrats was wrong, but different people have different premises.
 
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If you're feeling attacked by me when I lash out against The Pro-Genocide Candidate, then sure, I guess I'm denigrating everyone, not just people who keep coming to me in this thread saying that I have to vote for The Lesser Evil who had decided Genocide counts as a Lesser Evil.



I have said, repeatedly and often, that I understand why people voted Harris. I just wish these people would show me the same courtesy when I say I refuse to vote for the Pro-Genocide candidate.

As to "who exactly claimed this", you can't be serious, right? It has been the rallying cry of the #VBNMW crowd and Democratic Pundits that hey, a Genocide is going to happen either way so you might as well vote for the person who might one day grow the spine to stand up to Israel. Even now, you can't look at #VBNMW Twitter without seeing a bunch of them screaming that they hope we're all happy that Trump won because "now we'll all see what a Genocide in Gaza looks like"...


TBF (to my knowledge at least), no one in this thread has ever stated that they think that Harris would be better than Trump on Gaza but to me, that's tomato tomatoe. Ultimately when voting for Harris, you are accepting that Palestine is expendable in your fight. I understand why you might think that is for the best but I wholeheartedly believe that giving Harris and The Democrats the knowledge that genocide isn't a Red Line for voters would have far worse consequences. We wouldn't see those consequences for another election or two most likely but once you've given them the greenlight to do a literal war crime, there is nothing they can't do and no group that they can't burn in their quest to stay in power. This time it is Palestine (and immigrants and at least hinted at Transgender People with her chickenshit "State Rights!!!" answer to Transgender healthcare) but next time Democrats decide a minority group is expendable, it might end up being one you care about.
Referencing to the other thread, but in any case there’s really not much of Gaza left to even finish off so it really remains to be seen. Highly doubtful anyone these days would go so far as to round up the millions of remaining Palestinians to be sent to extermination camps, I’d hope.
 

Thaluikhain

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Referencing to the other thread, but in any case there’s really not much of Gaza left to even finish off so it really remains to be seen. Highly doubtful anyone these days would go so far as to round up the millions of remaining Palestinians to be sent to extermination camps, I’d hope.
I'd not be so hopeful the killing stops because they got most of them already. Unless they can move on to Lebanon, say, but that would cost them more.
 

Casual Shinji

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Ultimately when voting for Harris, you are accepting that Palestine is expendable in your fight.
And ultimately by using an iPhone and iPad you accept that the Uyghurs are expenable in your need for the internet and gaming. And this isn't meant as an attack, it's meant as a cold hard fact that we are all complicit in this system. Though just because you are doesn't mean you can't still raise a stink and and try to fight back against it. Just as anyone who voted Democrat can't still protest the Palestinian genocide. However, from your activity in this thread so far I'm getting the impression you do mean it as a attack. You can say 'I understand why people voted for Harris' all you want, but if you follow this up almost immediately with 'you're accepting Palestinians are expendable' it's difficult not to see it as an attack. So stop acting like you're a cut above, and lording a superior sense of justice over people who are already at their wits end with what lays in wait for them for the 4 years.
 

tippy2k2

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Alright, I'll stop acting like I'm a "cut above" and "Holier than Thou" and whatever asinine insults you want to throw my way for daring for not shutting up and stepping in line like a good little Democrat should.

But that means I'm just going to stop responding to you #VBNMW peeps who keep lashing out at me for daring to tell Democrats to go pound sand over their Genocide (and yes, if you are telling people to vote Harris no matter her stance on Genocide, that is the "Blue No Matter" Who part). So you guys can circle jerk each other with how great you are for voting for a candidate who ultimately got her teeth kicked in because she refused to listen to people like me (and don't you all worry, I'll be sure to circle jerk myself with how great I am for voting Third Party and saying No to Genocide). Harris didn't lose because she went hard right on a number of issues, kept telling the poors that they're too stupid to understand that the economy rules right now while everyone struggles to survive, and had no intention of stopping a genocide; she lost because everyone is just racist against the black woman who ran the most perfect campaign ever.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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It wouldn't have, it would've stopped a dictator from rising to power in one of the most powerful countries in the world. If you can't understand what this means for the people who would be most affected by this you really have some blinders on.
Trump isn't a dictator...

Option 4: Vote pro-genocide, pro-sexism, totalitarianisms, and pro-racism.
Fixed that for ya.

---

Can we stop with the exaggeration and hyperbole? This is really getting old. This is one of the reasons Trump won because it's a message that people cared least about (because it's not real). Also the Dems don't even believe it because all the "next-up" Dems are positioning for 2028.

 

Silvanus

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Alright, I'll stop acting like I'm a "cut above" and "Holier than Thou" and whatever asinine insults you want to throw my way for daring for not shutting up and stepping in line like a good little Democrat should.
Bast almighty, get the hell over this. Nobody is calling you these things for "not stepping in line". They're calling you these things because you're smearing them.

Insult other people and expect them to insult you back. It's not bloody persecution.
 
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Mister Mumbler

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You might notice a pattern with all of my "holier than though" posts. They're all done in response to people telling me I have to vote for the Pro-Genocide candidate because otherwise the other Pro-Genocide candidate will win.

I've said repeatedly that while I wouldn't vote for Harris, I understand why others would be willing to but if people are still going to come at me, I have zero issues throwing hands right back. If people don't want me to punch back, they should stop throwing punches at me because I have zero qualms about matching energy.
So first of sure maybe, like I said I've come in here rather late and keeping track of internet feuds is beyond the scope of my time. But also, you have to realize that you're atleast partially to blame too, right? Like, no one had called you out or anything when you went and dropped this,
Happy "Choose which color the trolly is" Day to all those who celebrate! 🥳
Not even in response to anyone, you just went and hit 'Send All'.

Especially since trying to claim to someone that "things would have been worse later, this is much better, trust me" while those people seem to be the ones in real danger here feels gross. Doubly so when you nod along with the same notion being brought up here,
I hate Trump, but hate Harris even more for what she represents.
By someone who also posted this the same week,
I expressed my thoughts about the trans movement yesterday morning. It's evil.
But I've said my piece, and sorry if this has felt like a go at you. It has always come from a place of trying to help, which may have felt condescending so my bad there.

Christ I'm tired...
 
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FakeSympathy

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Apparently Trump Administration wants to continue its work on kicking out illegal immigrants. And this time, they are gonna target those with U.S. citizenship as well, mostly for those who gave false information during their naturalization process, or got their citizenship through illegal means.

I got my citizenship back in 2019, and the first major thing I did was to vote for Biden. Now I'm terrified because I might get roped into this mass deportation movement. I was honest in my interview and gave true information, but there is a good chance I might be forced to move back to Korea. And of course the USCIS will apologize for "making you caught in the middle of all this" but won't re-instate my citizenship

... which isn't any better because I pretty much skipped the required military service in Korea. So the first thing that happens when I land there is getting arrested and sent to jail.

Ugh.
 
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