US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
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In case you're unaware, he was also charged with not paying taxes on large sums of money given to him by foreign entities for dubious reasons.
Indictment
Article on guilty plea
He plead guilty to tax crimes with a sentence of up to 17 years in prison, it's speculated he went with a guilty plea to avoid a trial where information would be publicized, now he's been pardoned anyway.
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Probably none. I'm also sympathetic to the idea that no-one would have bothered taking this so far if they weren't politically gunning for Joe.
On the other hand, it is in my view flagrant moral misuse of pardons to let your nearest and dearest, supporters and bagmen off the hook for committing crimes. In a worst case scenario, a president intentionally sets criminals loose and then shields them from repercussions. It is amongst the worst sort of arbitrary, monarchical powers, and offensive to the rule of law.
I can tolerate commuting a sentence more readily (i.e. with the conviction remaining on the books) especially where it is unusually punitive, but a full pardon should only be employed where there is powerful evidence of a miscarriage of justice or overwhelming national interest.
I can understand Biden pardoning Hunter. Trump has made it very clear he considers Biden not just an opponent but an outright enemy. Not the sort of person you'd put your son under his mercy. All the more because the last person Trump wanted dead in jail did a ''suicide'' when he was president.
Its also pretty grotesque the people upset about this said nothing about Trump pardoning Kushner's dad and making him an ambassador, not to mention Trump repeatedly floating the idea of pardoning the henchmen from his coup attempt.
That being said.....I think its bad Biden did this. He flat out shouldn't have done it. Because even with all the above there's little indication Hunter is secretly innocent, and its still a president using his power to shield his relatives from the consequences of being guilty. And while those arguments are certainly in bad faith this is going to give the far right ammunition to keep glorifying Trump's own nepotism.
Its also pretty grotesque the people upset about this said nothing about Trump pardoning Kushner's dad and making him an ambassador, not to mention Trump repeatedly floating the idea of pardoning the henchmen from his coup attempt.
That being said.....I think its bad Biden did this. He flat out shouldn't have done it. Because even with all the above there's little indication Hunter is secretly innocent, and its still a president using his power to shield his relatives from the consequences of being guilty. And while those arguments are certainly in bad faith this is going to give the far right ammunition to keep glorifying Trump's own nepotism.
Full history -
waysandmeans.house.gov
Impeachment Inquiry of President Joseph R. Biden – Ways and Means
waysandmeans.house.gov
Sure if you go by official numbers, but we all know the official numbers from China are just made up.
When you're an island country that can actually stop covid from coming in and spreading, that's a far different story than the vast majority of countries.
Sure, what loving father wouldn't do that for their son?
Oh yeah, when they're the president of the USA and supposed to uphold the f***ing law ahead of their family loyalties.
Yeah the Hunter Biden pardon falls into “I get why you did it. But you still shouldn’t have done it”
Well, the election showed that Americans don't care whether politicians abuse the rules for their families or try to uphold impartial justice. It won't win any votes, so they just lost much of the reason to restrain themselves.
The electorate wants to be run by nepotist criminals, so that is what they get.
To be fair, at least in terms of pardons, these have been in my view misused by pretty much every president in my lifetime (I mean, all I can think off but I'm leaving some wiggle room for those I just don't know enough about like Carter). Biden may as well just be another in a long trend.
But you are also right than in the election of Trump, effectively the public signalled that they don't really give a shit about corruption - or at least that if it does bother them, it's far from a deal-breaker.
It seemed pretty clear this go around that Republicans don't but people who would consider voting Democrat do given how many voters who voted Biden last go stayed home this go around.
It might not be fair that Republican voters hold their reps to different standards than Democrat voters but life isn't fair. Actions like this are what make potential voters believe both sides are corrupt bastards who bend the rules for their own gain so they just stay home rather than choose between the corrupt side and the corrupt side.
I don't know if there's a way to pardon part of a crime, or reduce a sentence? Hunter clearly did something illegal and should pay for that, but the punishment he got was way above what a normal citizen would have gotten for that crime, especially since he got a plea deal that was just cancelled for for political reason (crazy how quick justice moved in that case but slow walk the fuck out of attempting to overthrow an elected government).
Trump suggests Canada become 51st state after Trudeau said tariff would kill economy: sources
President-elect Trump told Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau his country should become the 51st state if it can't fix trade and immigration issues without ripping off the U.S.
www.foxnews.com
People who wanted less corruption could have honored the restraint of the less corrupt party. But they didn't. Corruption is not important to voters and the losers will now emulate the winners, particularly when they can personally profit from it.
There is plenty of corruption on both sides. It's hardly rare for a senior politician of either party to be found to be on the take in some form. I suspect dubious ethical conduct always has been the way, although perhaps systems were much more lax to oversee things in the old days so fewer were caught. Then there's the wider pattern of gerrymandering, pork barrel politics, lobbying and so on, all of which everyone knows is kind of wrong, but is so baked into the system that it is widely tolerated even if it maintains a constant stench of unethical behaviour. Plus of course that US politics is incredibly sclerotic, in the sense that few seats change hands at elections, helping ensure that the ineffectual or unethical are hard to replace.
But there is certainly a point where a party can either choose to fight that and be seen to fight it, and there will also be a risk is that the public become so desensitised that they start to tolerate ever-increasing excesses.
We keep trying to warn Democrats that being the Lesser Evil (or in this case, The Lesser Corruption Party) is going to keep making them lose but if that's the lesson you want to take from the last election, so be it I guess
Missed opportunity to just make it Make Europe Great Again i.e. MEGA
Anyway, starting to look more and more like the world needs to learn the lesson again.
Unlikely that they will find anything. The German anti-vaxxer party throwing allegations around wildly is nothing new.
And i told you before which kind of lessons the Democrats would learn from defeat (namely emulating Republicans more) and see, i was right.
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