Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Silvanus]

During the pandemic, politics overruled science at the government institutions entrusted with protecting public health.

NEW REPORT: Biden Administration Pressured FDA and Ignored Risks During Initial COVID Vaccine Phase

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust, led by Chairman Thomas Massie (R-KY), released an interim staff report titled, "

judiciary.house.gov

That's a press release from a Republican representative (and a tea party fruitcake to boot).

I'm not pro raw milk by any means but hardly anyone is going to start buying raw milk regardless, it's wildly inconvenient.

Essentially, you think FDA guidance is compelling peoples' eating habits when it comes from someone you don't like, but you think FDA guidance is impotent when it's someone you do like telling people to consume dangerous things. There's zero consistency here. You just flip flop depending on what's convenient.

RFK endorses drinking disease-ridden produce. That's the long and short of it. And you're fine with the Secretary of Health endorsing such things.

No, I said a single word he probably used incorrectly. It's easy to misuse a word, you don't hold others to these ridiculous standards. If someone is going on and on about doing XYZ and they say one thing one time that negates XYZ, I'm pretty sure they made a minor slip-up (especially if you use any other synonym of that word,which makes it makes sense, and would be consistent to their prior statements).

But RFK hasn't said anything about retaining the FDA nutrition department. His statement about getting rid of it doesn't contradict a single thing he's said. You just don't want to believe that he means what he said.

I generally don't think you should drink your calories, but a glass of milk a day isn't bad for you (I don't drink milk myself because I never felt it has great flavor but I do love it in some vanilla chai tea). If milk is all you drink throughout the day, then that's too many calories from drinking when you can just have water. Tim Spector did say that milk being high in fat and that makes it bad for you is a myth and misconception (you said milk was bad because of the fat). Kids, as they are growing, definitely should have whole milk over skim milk IMO. I believe they discovered the C15 essential fatty acid after the most recent video I could find on his take on dairy. Generally, you want the fat in foods because it provides satiety (it helps you eat less) and a lot of nutrients are also found there and eating nutrient dense foods are good. Also, a large portion of Sardinia's diet is diary and they are a blue zone.

Firstly, no, I didn't say "milk is bad because of the fat".

Secondly, this is a lot of waffle to avoid answering the question succinctly. Do you agree with him that there's scarcely any difference between skimmed and whole milk, and that we should drink very little?

 

[Gordon_4]

 

[Phoenixmgs]

That's a press release from a Republican representative (and a tea party fruitcake to boot).



Essentially, you think FDA guidance is compelling peoples' eating habits when it comes from someone you don't like, but you think FDA guidance is impotent when it's someone you do like telling people to consume dangerous things. There's zero consistency here. You just flip flop depending on what's convenient.

RFK endorses drinking disease-ridden produce. That's the long and short of it. And you're fine with the Secretary of Health endorsing such things.



But RFK hasn't said anything about retaining the FDA nutrition department. His statement about getting rid of it doesn't contradict a single thing he's said. You just don't want to believe that he means what he said.



Firstly, no, I didn't say "milk is bad because of the fat".

Secondly, this is a lot of waffle to avoid answering the question succinctly. Do you agree with him that there's scarcely any difference between skimmed and whole milk, and that we should drink very little?

And, how does that make it wrong? Literally every other country did the opposite, I wonder why...

No, advising people to do something they will not do isn't dangerous. It would be like asking people to go to the farm to get beef instead of the store, nobody is gonna do that. And the people that would do that are already doing that.

And how are you going to give nutritional advice if you get rid of the department that provides nutritional advice?

Yeah, you did (quoted below), don't you think people getting satiety from foods they eat and nutrients during an obesity epidemic is important? Plus, there's a diabetes epidemic too and guess what of the 3 main macronutrients doesn't spike blood sugar at all, it's fat. I would say there's not a huge difference, I wouldn't say there's scarcely any difference. What's very little? Is a glass a day very little?

Food and drink with high fat content shouldn't be able to put "healthy" on the label in the middle of an obesity epidemic.

 

[Silvanus]

And, how does that make it wrong? Literally every other country did the opposite, I wonder why...

It simply doesn't prove your point that Gruber and Krause resigned for politicies contradicting "the science". That's what you quoted it for. On that count, it's worthless.

No, advising people to do something they will not do isn't dangerous. It would be like asking people to go to the farm to get beef instead of the store, nobody is gonna do that. And the people that would do that are already doing that.

OK, so you think FDA guidance isn't compelling anyone. In that case you shouldn't worry about them calling whole milk unhealthy. People won't change their eating habits because of what the FDA says, so it's silly to complain, right?

And how are you going to give nutritional advice if you get rid of the department that provides nutritional advice?

You'll have to ask him. He's the one proposing it. I suspect he simply hasn't thought it through, because he's clearly not very bright. He'll probably back away from the whole area when it gets too complicated for him.

Yeah, you did (quoted below), don't you think people getting satiety from foods they eat and nutrients during an obesity epidemic is important? Plus, there's a diabetes epidemic too and guess what of the 3 main macronutrients doesn't spike blood sugar at all, it's fat. I would say there's not a huge difference, I wouldn't say there's scarcely any difference. What's very little? Is a glass a day very little?

That doesn't say the same thing. That's about labelling during an obesity epidemic. People don't require high-fat milk to attain satiety. And the average American is getting far, far above the level of saturated fat for 'satiety'. In that context? Yeah, it's poor practice to label it as "healthy", as if its helpful for the average (already overweight) American. I wouldn't label it unhealthy, but I wouldn't let it label itself as healthy either.

 

[Schadrach]

OK, so you think FDA guidance isn't compelling anyone. In that case you shouldn't worry about them calling whole milk unhealthy. People won't change their eating habits because of what the FDA says, so it's silly to complain, right?

I think the implication is that people might pay attention to FDA messaging but are also lazy and unlikely to follow through if it requires significant additional effort.

 

[Agema]

I think the implication is that people might pay attention to FDA messaging but are also lazy and unlikely to follow through if it requires significant additional effort.

Yes.

The point about public health messaging is often to try to present what's advantageous in a way that is also likely to be achievable. If the government tells people to do things they will hate, are far too complicated, expensive, etc. then the result is that fewer people will pay attention to the advice. In many cases, therefore, it's actually a form of compromise - not necessarily the absolutely best options, but an attempt to maximise practical outcomes given the limitations of what people are likely to do.

However, whilst a government agency can endorse what we might call "suboptimal" advice on the grounds it's still better than the alternatives generally being practised, it's another thing entirely for the government to endorse something that is outright worse that what is generally being practised. When the government is advising behaviour which causes more harm than the norm, something has gone badly wrong in government.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

It simply doesn't prove your point that Gruber and Krause resigned for politicies contradicting "the science". That's what you quoted it for. On that count, it's worthless.



OK, so you think FDA guidance isn't compelling anyone. In that case you shouldn't worry about them calling whole milk unhealthy. People won't change their eating habits because of what the FDA says, so it's silly to complain, right?



You'll have to ask him. He's the one proposing it. I suspect he simply hasn't thought it through, because he's clearly not very bright. He'll probably back away from the whole area when it gets too complicated for him.



That doesn't say the same thing. That's about labelling during an obesity epidemic. People don't require high-fat milk to attain satiety. And the average American is getting far, far above the level of saturated fat for 'satiety'. In that context? Yeah, it's poor practice to label it as "healthy", as if its helpful for the average (already overweight) American. I wouldn't label it unhealthy, but I wouldn't let it label itself as healthy either.

I wasn't trying to prove that. It's true that politics overruled science in the US during covid. The actual reason why they quit and the official release reason why they quit are most likely 2 different things.

Again, didn't say that... I said compelling people to do something they won't do isn't going to compel them to do it. Telling people say skim milk is better or that margarine is better than butter is something they will see in the grocery on the shelf right next to each other. If you heard one was better for you, you'll likely to choose that one over the other one. It's why we have ice cream that isn't ice cream (has to be called like a dairy dessert or some bullshit). I have to actually read the labels now to buy actual ice cream or cheese and most dairy products.

Pretty sure he just used a single word wrong and that's it.

Fat in general helps with satiety, doesn't really matter if it's from say milk or a burger. The recommended amount of saturated fat isn't a good recommendation. A ribeye puts you over for the whole day, it's an asinine recommendation. My friend that was on weight watchers (and is now trying some other thing since the New Year and all) had her only be able to eat a ribeye if that was the only thing she ate all day, this is why those programs don't work. You do realize we have cereals labeled as healthy and can't have eggs or milk labeled as healthy, it's a clown world.

 

[Silvanus]

I wasn't trying to prove that. It's true that politics overruled science in the US during covid. The actual reason why they quit and the official release reason why they quit are most likely 2 different things.

...OK, but you brought up these people resigning specifically about science contradicting policy. So if you acknowledge it doesn't prove that, then we're back to just your insistence.

Again, didn't say that... I said compelling people to do something they won't do isn't going to compel them to do it. Telling people say skim milk is better or that margarine is better than butter is something they will see in the grocery on the shelf right next to each other. If you heard one was better for you, you'll likely to choose that one over the other one. It's why we have ice cream that isn't ice cream (has to be called like a dairy dessert or some bullshit). I have to actually read the labels now to buy actual ice cream or cheese and most dairy products.

Well, I hope you're right, and that the Secretary of Health has that little influence on peoples' habits.

Fat in general helps with satiety, doesn't really matter if it's from say milk or a burger.

Fat helps with satiety. Protein helps more, of course, and fat has a lot of other implications. The fact is that Americans generally eat far too much fat, saturated and otherwise. I have no problem with general guidelines to consume less of it.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

...OK, but you brought up these people resigning specifically about science contradicting policy. So if you acknowledge it doesn't prove that, then we're back to just your insistence.



Well, I hope you're right, and that the Secretary of Health has that little influence on peoples' habits.



Fat helps with satiety. Protein helps more, of course, and fat has a lot of other implications. The fact is that Americans generally eat far too much fat, saturated and otherwise. I have no problem with general guidelines to consume less of it.

Yes, but it's most likely that.

Again, that's not what I said... It's obvious government guidelines have massively changed people's eating habits over the last 50+ years (and not for the better). There's literally more skim milk in a grocery store than whole milk, that's because of government guidelines/recommendations.

Why are you saying Americans eat too much fat? Where is like any evidence supporting your claim?

 

[Silvanus]

Yes, but it's most likely that.

K, speculation.

Why are you saying Americans eat too much fat? Where is like any evidence supporting your claim?

America is in the midst of an obesity epidemic. Despite what you believe, fat is a major contributor to that.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

K, speculation.



America is in the midst of an obesity epidemic. Despite what you believe, fat is a major contributor to that.

It's speculation to go off of official releases when someone quits as well.

Again, the evidence?

 

[Silvanus]

It's speculation to go off of official releases when someone quits as well.

Ok, but I'm not relying on any conclusions about why they quit, I didn't bring it up and don't care.

Again, the evidence?

A highly saturated fat-rich diet is more obesogenic than diets with lower saturated fat content - PubMed

The present study tested the hypothesis that a saturated fatty acid (SFA)-rich diet is more obesogenic than diets with lower SFA content. In 8 female Sprague-Dawley rats fed a low-SFA canola or a moderate-SFA lard-rich diets at 67% of energy for 26 days, body weight gain, final body weight...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High dietary saturated fat intake accentuates obesity risk associated with the fat mass and obesity-associated gene in adults - PubMed

Fat mass and obesity-associated (FTO) is the strongest genetic determinant of obesity identified to date. Dietary fat is a key environmental factor that may interact with genotype to affect risk of obesity and metabolic syndrome (MetS). This study investigated associations among FTO rs9939609...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Ok, but I'm not relying on any conclusions about why they quit, I didn't bring it up and don't care.

A highly saturated fat-rich diet is more obesogenic than diets with lower saturated fat content - PubMed

The present study tested the hypothesis that a saturated fatty acid (SFA)-rich diet is more obesogenic than diets with lower SFA content. In 8 female Sprague-Dawley rats fed a low-SFA canola or a moderate-SFA lard-rich diets at 67% of energy for 26 days, body weight gain, final body weight...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

High dietary saturated fat intake accentuates obesity risk associated with the fat mass and obesity-associated gene in adults - PubMed

Fat mass and obesity-associated (FTO) is the strongest genetic determinant of obesity identified to date. Dietary fat is a key environmental factor that may interact with genotype to affect risk of obesity and metabolic syndrome (MetS). This study investigated associations among FTO rs9939609...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I care about politics getting in the way of science.

A mice study?

Fat and saturated fat intake has been going down in America, yet the obesity rate climbs.

Trends in Intake of Energy and Macronutrients --- United States, 1971--2000

The percentage of kcals from total fat decreased from 36.9% to 32.8% (p<0.01) for men and from 36.1% to 32.8% (p<0.01) for women. In addition, the percentage of kcals from saturated fat decreased from 13.5% to 10.9% (p<0.01) for men and from 13.0% to 11.0% (p<0.01) for women.



---

If saturated fat is causing people to become more obese, then why do diets higher in fat cause more weight loss?

Low Carb vs. Low Fat Diets — Which Is Best for Weight Loss?

Low fat diets were long thought to aid weight loss, but many people now assert that low carb diets are more effective. This article explains whether low fat or low carb diets are better for weight loss.

www.healthline.com