Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Phoenixmgs

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Once again: policy isn't a matter of scientific consensus.



...which also advised eating eggs, yolk and all.



Yet again you've provided a whole ream of info about how dietary cholesterol and LDL do not have a direct causal link. Which I already know, and never disputed. I was talking about the harms of an overabundance of LDL. Not dietary cholesterol, and not claiming one directly causes the other.



No, you were blathering on about loads of saturated fat being a-ok and not causing anyone any problems. Which is definitely not in line with the scientific consensus.
Again, where is the science that says covid boosters should be had by all? Where is your proof of this "scientific consensus"?

But, again, why would anyone advise not eating the yolk?

That's why eggs were targeted as food that people should heavily limit intake of and you keep gaslighting me on that. And, again, high LDL isn't harmful, it's the quality of the LDL that matters, like when it becomes oxidized.

You don't seem to understand what the term "consensus" means. Saturated fat is very strong against oxidation so it's one of the best fats to eat.
 

Silvanus

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Again, where is the science that says covid boosters should be had by all? Where is your proof of this "scientific consensus"?
Policy is not a matter of scientific consensus. Get that through your head.

But, again, why would anyone advise not eating the yolk?
Don't know. But that's irrelevant, since the guidance you provided advised people to eat eggs, yolk and all.

And, again, high LDL isn't harmful, it's the quality of the LDL that matters, like when it becomes oxidized.

You don't seem to understand what the term "consensus" means. Saturated fat is very strong against oxidation so it's one of the best fats to eat.
Fucking lol. From your own article;

"Other experts—likely the majority—still agree with the idea that cholesterol levels are important. They hold this view because no matter how you cut it when it comes to atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, cholesterol does matter.

Atherosclerotic plaques are loaded with cholesterol. There is also strong evidence that the cholesterol that ends up in the plaques is delivered there by LDL particles."

[...]


Remember that lifestyle changes and medications you take to treat coronary disease, including lipid-lowering drugs, have proven benefits."

Actually read the articles you post. Read them. This one is not saying what you're arguing-- and categorically contradicts it. It concludes that since non-statin cholesterol-lowering drugs don't have the same benefits as statins, the cholesterol hypothesis alone is too simplistic. That is something i agree with. The article is also 100% clear that cholesterol and LDL do fucking matter.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Policy is not a matter of scientific consensus. Get that through your head.



Don't know. But that's irrelevant, since the guidance you provided advised people to eat eggs, yolk and all.



Fucking lol. From your own article;

"Other experts—likely the majority—still agree with the idea that cholesterol levels are important. They hold this view because no matter how you cut it when it comes to atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, cholesterol does matter.

Atherosclerotic plaques are loaded with cholesterol. There is also strong evidence that the cholesterol that ends up in the plaques is delivered there by LDL particles."

[...]


Remember that lifestyle changes and medications you take to treat coronary disease, including lipid-lowering drugs, have proven benefits."

Actually read the articles you post. Read them. This one is not saying what you're arguing-- and categorically contradicts it. It concludes that since non-statin cholesterol-lowering drugs don't have the same benefits as statins, the cholesterol hypothesis alone is too simplistic. That is something i agree with. The article is also 100% clear that cholesterol and LDL do fucking matter.
Again, where is the SCIENCE that says that? Where are the studies? Surely, they exist!!!

Guidance also said to not eat the yolk... Why the hell do you think egg whites only is even an option at restaurants?

Again, you don't read what I say. I didn't say LDL or cholesterol doesn't matter, I said that the overall number isn't that important because it's about the quality of the LDL, not how much you have. Oxidized LDL ends up as plaque. Eating fats that get easily oxidized and eating lots of sugars that cause oxidation leads to getting plaque in the arteries. Why would you then avoid saturated fats when they are strongest (or second strongest) fats against getting oxidized? Ancel Keys was wrong about saturated fat.
 
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Silvanus

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Again, where is the SCIENCE that says that? Where are the studies? Surely, they exist!!!
Why do you just keep on asking for scientific studies for a political policy? Why would they exist? Policy isn't the purview of science.

Guidance also said to not eat the yolk...
Not the guidance you posted. Your guidance involved eating yolk. If you want to moan about guidance, show it actually exists first, or you're just jumping at shadows.

Again, you don't read what I say. I didn't say LDL or cholesterol doesn't matter, I said that the overall number isn't that important because it's about the quality of the LDL, not how much you have. Oxidized LDL ends up as plaque. Eating fats that get easily oxidized and eating lots of sugars that cause oxidation leads to getting plaque in the arteries. Why would you then avoid saturated fats when they are strongest (or second strongest) fats against getting oxidized? Ancel Keys was wrong about saturated fat.
And all this is in direct contradiction of the article you yourself posted. You say I can't read what you post, but you haven't even read your own damn source.[/quote]
 

Phoenixmgs

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Why do you just keep on asking for scientific studies for a political policy? Why would they exist? Policy isn't the purview of science.



Not the guidance you posted. Your guidance involved eating yolk. If you want to moan about guidance, show it actually exists first, or you're just jumping at shadows.



And all this is in direct contradiction of the article you yourself posted. You say I can't read what you post, but you haven't even read your own damn source.
[/QUOTE]
You said it was scientific consensus that boosters work for everyone. Where is the proof of this?

---

It did recommend that someone making 4 eggs for a kid should give them 2 without the yolk, why?

---

From my article:
Many lipid experts and cardiologists are now questioning whether the cholesterol hypothesis is true after all. That’s because trials have failed to show a clinical benefit when using drugs other than statins to reduce cholesterol levels.

The problem is that if the cholesterol hypothesis were true, it should not matter which drugs were used to reduce cholesterol; any method of lowering cholesterol should theoretically improve clinical outcomes. But that has not been shown.


Also, literally what I just told you, it's about the quality of the LDL. Saturated fat doesn't matter.

Scientists are rapidly learning more about the various lipoprotein particles and what influences how they behave.
For instance:
Size: Some are small, dense particles, and some are big, “fluffy” particles. The small particles are much more likely to produce atherosclerosis than the larger particles.

Oxidized: Oxidized LDL particles are relatively toxic to cardiovascular health. These particles are more likely to worsen atherosclerosis.
 

Silvanus

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You said it was scientific consensus that boosters work for everyone. Where is the proof of this?
No, I didn't say that. I said effectiveness was quite significant although waning with time. Some evidence for this is here.

It did recommend that someone making 4 eggs for a kid should give them 2 without the yolk, why?
Dunno. Ask them.

From my article:
Many lipid experts and cardiologists are now questioning whether the cholesterol hypothesis is true after all. That’s because trials have failed to show a clinical benefit when using drugs other than statins to reduce cholesterol levels.

The problem is that if the cholesterol hypothesis were true, it should not matter which drugs were used to reduce cholesterol; any method of lowering cholesterol should theoretically improve clinical outcomes. But that has not been shown.


...And then it goes on to say the stuff i quoted. That the majority agree cholesterol does matter, that lowering it is beneficial.

Also, literally what I just told you, it's about the quality of the LDL. Saturated fat doesn't matter.
Contradicting your own source, as usual.
 

Phoenixmgs

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No, I didn't say that. I said effectiveness was quite significant although waning with time. Some evidence for this is here.



Dunno. Ask them.



...And then it goes on to say the stuff i quoted. That the majority agree cholesterol does matter, that lowering it is beneficial.



Contradicting your own source, as usual.
The vaccine/booster doesn't stop infections so what's the point in using that as your basis. Paul Offit said you cannot stop covid infections based on the type of virus it is so why try? The boosters don't lower hospitalization rate or death rate of most people. Plus, your study doesn't even look at the harms. People get symptoms from the boosters and have to call off, and myocarditis is also a thing that the boosters cause. This is why science committees didn't recommend covid boosters for all.

The point is they provided guidance to not eat yolks, which you said isn't a thing.

Yes, that means it's not scientific consensus, which is what you claimed.

My source literally said that and I quoted them saying that...