Ukraine

[Seanchaidh]

You honestly think the US is gonna turn into an enemy? Turning into a not-an-ally, fine, I can see that happening, but an actual enemy?

The United States committed an act of war against Germany by blowing up the Nordstream pipeline. And Europe hardly dares acknowledge it.

 

[Bedinsis]

The United States committed an act of war against Germany by blowing up the Nordstream pipeline.

There is no substance behind your words, just speculation.

Edit: actually, that was a bit too dismissive. Could you substantiate your claims?

 

[tstorm823]

There is no substance behind your words, just speculation.

Edit: actually, that was a bit too dismissive. Could you substantiate your claims?

He doesn't require substantiation. He's never looked for it, because he thinks within a paradigm where it's moot. There are effectively 3 possibilities:

1) The US did it, in which case Seanchaidh is literally correct.
2) Another opponent of Russia did it, in which case Seanchaidh would point to the US as Russia's chief adversary and thus blame the US for creating the geopolitical environment in which anyone would even consider blowing up pipelines.
3) The attack was done by Russia or an ally of Russia as a false flag to justify continued war in Ukraine, a war which Seanchaidh blames on the US, once again making it the fault of the US.

You're looking for evidence from someone whose overall conclusions cannot be meaningfully effected, so there's a certain logic to him not bothering to substantiate any claims.

 

[Hades]

So it seems Trump, being the traitor that he is send a modern day Ribbentrop to negotiate with Russia's modern day Molotov about how to carve Europe between them. The Ribbentrop that the US send has already stated he plans to bar Europe from the negotiating table. You know, because both he and his master are scum. This would mean Ukraine loses the last entity that has Ukraine interests in mind, and would be bullied into submission by Russia and their American puppets.

Europe will not be part of Ukraine-Russia peace talks, US envoy says

Keith Kellogg tells countries to offer concrete solutions and boost spending instead of complaining about talks role

www.theguardian.com

 

[Seanchaidh]

There is no substance behind your words, just speculation.

Edit: actually, that was a bit too dismissive. Could you substantiate your claims?

'Deconstructing the obvious'? Seymour Hersh on why the US blew up Nord Stream

Hersh alleges that US Navy divers planted C4 explosive on the pipelines in June last year, before remotely activating the bombs three months later.

www.brusselstimes.com

The United States is the main economic beneficiary of Nordstream's destruction. Its officials all but confessed beforehand.

Alternative theories are silly. It was Russia that blew up its own pipeline when it could just shut it off and maintain leverage, torturing logic; it was a Ukrainian yacht incapable of carrying the necessary deep diving equipment somehow! If there were a better account than Seymour Hersh's, it would have been published by the tumorous mass of US-aligned media.

 

[Worgen]

The United States is the main economic beneficiary of Nordstream's destruction. Its officials all but confessed beforehand.

Alternative theories are silly. It was Russia that blew up its own pipeline when it could just shut it off and maintain leverage, torturing logic; it was a Ukrainian yacht incapable of carrying the necessary deep diving equipment somehow! If there were a better account than Seymour Hersh's, it would have been published by the tumorous mass of US-aligned media.

You still never miss a chance to be a russian shill.

 

[Seanchaidh]

You still never miss a chance to be a russian shill.

not an argument

 

[Worgen]

not an argument

No its not, but why would I give an argument to a russian operative?

 

[Seanchaidh]

No its not, but why would I give an argument to a russian operative?

you're not a serious person

 

[Worgen]

you're not a serious person

And you are a russian asset.

 

[Gergar12]

He's wrong on immigration, and the far right, but right about the lack of European dynamicism.

 

[CM156]

not an argument

Oh goodie, everyone's least favorite campist is back from his time away fellating dictators, simply because their atrocities incontinence America in some way.
I've been away for more than a year, and I came back on a lark to see this as the first thread. So Seanchaidh, let me just say this. You are one of the dumbest people I have ever seen on these forums, and I started posting back in 2011. And not dumb as in uninformed, but willfully misinformed. You have let propaganda scramble your morality to the point where your only frame of reference for something being good or bad is if the USA does it. I am convinced that if I described historic events to you in the abstract, without mentioning parties, you would be unable to describe if the action was good or bad until you knew if it was a western nation committing an atrocity (bad) or a non-western one (okay, good, or it never happened.)
Your life would improve immensely if you put down your computer, walked outside and never came back. And it would improve the quality of these forums immensely. I know you're not going to do it. Obviously. And that's a shame. At the very least, you should reconsider every single decision you have ever made in your life. Again, it's something you won't do. And the world is poorer for your continued existence in it as you are.

As to the mods, feel free to punish me for this post all you wish. I wrote this knowing that it was entirely contrary to the rules, and do not intend to ever return here. Auf Wiedersehen, and Sean, may you one day get every single thing you deserve.

 

[meiam]

I'm going to say as a European, and someone who believes in the idea of Europe, European leadership has been awful, and Europe is kind of getting what it deserves.

This hasn't come out of nowhere. The invasion of Iraq was a key signal that the USA might not care what Europe says and thinks, over 20 years ago. Obama took over and things seemed superficially better because Obama was very polite, but underneath the USA was still distant, obviously looking elsewhere, and even frustrated that Europe seemed ineffectual. Putin invaded Crimea in 2014 and Europe barely twitched. When Trump took over in 2017, alarm bells should have been going off all over Europe that they needed to sort some shit out and fast. Instead, they spent 8 years dithering, and here we are.

Trump can negotiate with Russia over the EU's heads because Europe has dismally failed to put itself in a position where it merits being listened to. It talks about securing Ukraine's independence, and has done basically nothing to ensure it's in any position to do so. 500 million people and ~$25 trillion economy, and it's effectively powerless - diplomatically, politically, militarily. The EU also surely needs to start looking at other powers gradually carving up the world to control resource routes and develop key new technologies. Russia takes Ukraine, the USA takes Greenland, China buys Africa, where's the EU getting it's stuff from? Europe faces being shut out and left behind unless it gets its shit together. Just how many strategic reports does it need to write about the critical importance of increasing its defence capabilities until someone actually does it? Europe might be so incapable that even having been so comprehensively taken over by events here it still won't get into gear.

Europe needs to bulk up its military, and I mean a lot. By which I mean not equalling Russia / USA's, just that defence spending (%GDP) in many EU countries is so incredibly low, even if they doubled spending it would still be below average. It needs to make a lot more of its own hardware: if it can't trust the USA, it's got to stop buying American. It needs arms and munitions manufacture capable of independent action. And not just military, it needs whole technologies where it can stand on its It needs a proper, EU military capable of independent and effective action. I know this is a HUGE political issue, as this is a massive and direct erosion of national sovereignty. But a Europe where big decisions are perpetually held hostage by any prick who'll sacrifice the greater interest to win their next election, or actively sold out by traitors like Orban, is a Europe guaranteed to go into the future as a failure. A retirement home; affluent, bickering old fuddy-duddies fading away into obsolescence and insignificance.

Well on military, Macron has being banging that drum for awhile now and that hasn't exactly roused any spirit, so I don't think that's going to happen, ever. Plus he's about to be replaced and both contender are not going to be pushing for that. Germany is also looking at getting a new government that's historically being pretty Russia friendly, possibly needing support from another party that's extremely Putin friendly. So right there you got the main engine of the EU going firmly in the "Bah who care" category.

But the bigger problem is ultimately economic, Putin was never worried that the US would invade it, but the economic sanction are what caused the bigger problem for him, and that's why he's so desperate to have peace talk with the US. Him and his buddy Trump can just ignore Europe because they're not important enough economically speaking to matter that much, he's replace them by India and China as main client and is probably happier that way anyway.

More than military, the EU need to really rejig its economy. It need to stop being a project chiefly focused on providing comfortable retirement and protecting farmer and start investing seriously in its active and future population.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I've been away for more than a year, and I came back on a lark to see this as the first thread.

I recommend you avoid the thread on Palestine.

 

[Gordon_4]

And you are a russian asset.

Well, you’re nearly right……

Oh goodie, everyone's least favorite campist is back from his time away fellating dictators, simply because their atrocities incontinence America in some way.
I've been away for more than a year, and I came back on a lark to see this as the first thread. So Seanchaidh, let me just say this. You are one of the dumbest people I have ever seen on these forums, and I started posting back in 2011. And not dumb as in uninformed, but willfully misinformed. You have let propaganda scramble your morality to the point where your only frame of reference for something being good or bad is if the USA does it. I am convinced that if I described historic events to you in the abstract, without mentioning parties, you would be unable to describe if the action was good or bad until you knew if it was a western nation committing an atrocity (bad) or a non-western one (okay, good, or it never happened.)
Your life would improve immensely if you put down your computer, walked outside and never came back. And it would improve the quality of these forums immensely. I know you're not going to do it. Obviously. And that's a shame. At the very least, you should reconsider every single decision you have ever made in your life. Again, it's something you won't do. And the world is poorer for your continued existence in it as you are.

As to the mods, feel free to punish me for this post all you wish. I wrote this knowing that it was entirely contrary to the rules, and do not intend to ever return here. Auf Wiedersehen, and Sean, may you one day get every single thing you deserve.

So long and thanks for all the fish, dude.

 

[Seanchaidh]

You are one of the dumbest people I have ever seen on these forums, and I started posting back in 2011. And not dumb as in uninformed, but willfully misinformed. You have let propaganda scramble your morality to the point where your only frame of reference for something being good or bad is if the USA does it.

This is also not an argument.

 

[Agema]

<snip>

Farewell and good luck, your insight over the years was appreciated.

Well, you’re nearly right...

Yes, a real, intentional, paid Russian asset would be a great deal smarter about how they promoted Putin and Russia.

 

[Agema]

Well on military, Macron has being banging that drum for awhile now and that hasn't exactly roused any spirit, so I don't think that's going to happen, ever. Plus he's about to be replaced and both contender are not going to be pushing for that. Germany is also looking at getting a new government that's historically being pretty Russia friendly, possibly needing support from another party that's extremely Putin friendly. So right there you got the main engine of the EU going firmly in the "Bah who care" category.

Yes, there's something to be said, there.

Europe is afflicted by nationalists who'd throw everyone else to the wolves - even feed them to the wolves - just so they could get their hands on the levers of power. Whilst they run few European countries, they make life very difficult for those that do. And once they took power, obviously, they first thing they'd do is turn European countries against each other, because that's where nationalism always goes.

Take Orban. Like many such dictator wannabes, he loves insulting the EU and the attention he gets from Putin and Trump. However, actually, he needs intra-European solidarity for his free ride. if the EU really started to disintegrate then he's got no EU subsidies to prop himself up, and he's just dictator of small, poor, weak country that can be ruthlessly bullied by its neighbours. If he wants to dwell on what that's like, the period 1500-1990 is actually a pretty good representation of Hungary's likely place in a nationalist Europe full of leaders like him. One of the first things I think Europe should do is make a point by starting procedures to eject Hungary from everything it can, including the EU. Give the Hungarians one general election to think carefully about where they want to be, and if they choose Orban, wave them goodbye.

But it's true for the bigger countries like Italy, France, UK and Germany as well. At a global level, either they work together or they fall individually.

But the bigger problem is ultimately economic, Putin was never worried that the US would invade it, but the economic sanction are what caused the bigger problem for him, and that's why he's so desperate to have peace talk with the US. Him and his buddy Trump can just ignore Europe because they're not important enough economically speaking to matter that much, he's replace them by India and China as main client and is probably happier that way anyway.

Putin's obvious excitement about Trump is that Trump has offered to give Putin not just the core stuff that Putin wants, but a load of bonus stuff Trump doesn't need to give away. It remains to be seen whether that's what actually happens in negotiations themselves and maybe Trump will be much tougher, but based on previous conduct the chances do not look good. The Trump "Pee Tape" is almost certainly a myth, but it's easy to see why the idea Putin has kompromat on Trump is attractive given Trump's fawning and permissive attitude to Putin.

Trump has also pulled the plug on NATO. Yes, NATO will technically survive Trump, maybe the next president will try to patch things up and keep the edifice creaking on a bit longer, but it's dead. It's not just Trump, it's that the rest of the USA elected him and/or have offered no significant resistance whilst he's taking a sledgehammer to its principles and fellow members. He's made it clear that the USA and EU need to go their separate ways, and Europe should listen.

 

[Thaluikhain]

He's made it clear that the USA and EU need to go their separate ways, and Europe should listen.

He made that clear sometime during his first term, and that was at least all of Biden's term ago. Europe, it seemed, didn't listen.

(Also, that applies to, say Australia and New Zealand and the Pacific, who also seemed not to have listened)

 

[Trunkage]

He made that clear sometime during his first term, and that was at least all of Biden's term ago. Europe, it seemed, didn't listen.

(Also, that applies to, say Australia and New Zealand and the Pacific, who also seemed not to have listened)

Ah. sort of tried but then we had to do an AUKUS