US 2024 Presidential Election

Schadrach

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And the other one shares a name with a famous medieval british alchemist.
Wasn't he Renaissance, like late 16th century or so? We are talking about John Dee's partner and not a different notorious medium and alchemist with the same name, right? Also, it's literally the same name, not just close like with Tate.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Wasn't he Renaissance, like late 16th century or so? We are talking about John Dee's partner and not a different notorious medium and alchemist with the same name, right? Also, it's literally the same name, not just close like with Tate.
Oh, true, that is well past medieval.
 

tstorm823

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Be honest for once, man.
I have told you the honest truth. You may choose to understand and benefit or dismiss it like always, but if nothing else, I have certainly told you the truth.
I'm also open to the possibility that he was given gifts more innocently, but on the other hand that's why policies and rules exist about refusing, or declaring/registering gifts, etc. (transparency - one of those things I keep banging on about).
He received gifts entirely openly and publicized the experience before he ran for mayor. The rules about refusing gifts apply to people once they are in the office. Nothing was behind closed doors, it was all out in the open. What more transparency are you looking for? The campaign donations that came from Turkey came through employees of Turkish owned companies. Those donations were reported as required and associated with the place of employment of the donors, and any that obviously violated campaign finance law were returned. What transparency is lacking here? What is it you're banging on about here?
 

Hades

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Anyway, release the pee tape.
On one hand it’s difficult to imagine the Russians having anything that can get Trump into problems. Even his ties with Epstein got met complete indifference despite child rape supposedly being the last thing all sides agree is taboo. Russia could show footage of Trump and Epstein literally cooking and eating their victim, and Maga would still find reasons to consider it glorious. If two impeachment, a coup, ties with Epstein, criminal convictions and history of rape wasn't enough to convince the US of Trump's degenerate nature then what could Russia possibly add to the conversation?

But on the other hand it really is strange how Trump being downright slavish in his desire to surrender Ukraine to Russia. Okay, we've always known he despised Europe and other rule based democracies, and we always known he adores dictatorships and would want to rule that way himself. But even when we take this into account his actions are still strange. Trump is giving everything away as well as torching all the US achieved since WW2 without asking for even a single thing in return from Putin. Its not even a deal, its just Trump giving Putin as many freebies as he can, and for such a repulsively selfish creature that's strange.
 
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meiam

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On one hand it’s difficult to imagine the Russians having anything that can get Trump into problems. Even his ties with Epstein got met complete indifference despite child rape supposedly being the last thing all sides agree is taboo. Russia could show footage of Trump and Epstein literally cooking and eating their victim, and Maga would still find reasons to consider it glorious. If two impeachment, a coup, ties with Epstein, criminal convictions and history of rape wasn't enough to convince the US of Trump's degenerate nature then what could Russia possibly add to the conversation?

But on the other hand it really is strange how Trump being downright slavish in his desire to surrender Ukraine to Russia. Okay, we've always known he despised Europe and other rule based democracies, and we always known he adores dictatorships and would want to rule that way himself. But even when we take this into account his actions are still strange. Trump is giving everything away as well as torching all the US achieved since WW2 without asking for even a single thing in return from Putin. Its not even a deal, its just Trump giving Putin as many freebies as he can, and for such a repulsively selfish creature that's strange.
Yeah that's one of the weirdest thing, there's literally nothing on earth Russia could have on Trump that would get him in trouble. Maybe he's worried they'd assassinate him or something?

Trump did beg him last week to spend less on defense so Trump could cut the defense budget, so maybe that's what he think he's negotiating to?

Otherwise, maybe Trump want a Belarus like deal, where if Trump tries to install himself as dictator, he'll be able to call in Russian mercenary to be his loyal guard dog that won't have a problem shooting american civilian. Maybe have russian spy help him out and be more layal to him that US spy/army, kinda like venezuela using cuban as loyalty enforcer.

But the most likely explanation, that's super depressing, is that Trump really just admire Putin and just want... I dunno... to be his friend or something? And he's just doing whatever he think will please him. Russia did buy a bunch of right wing influence, so maybe Trump is just watching those thing constantly and he's convinced that Putin is really the good guy in all this and need all the support they can get.
 

Gergar12

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They are firing people at the JPL or Jet Propulsion Laboratory at UCLA. My country is burning around me as we speak. Planes are crashing, the federal government is being hollowed including the military/DOD, FBI, CIA, DOJ, and even small USAID, and social security, Medicaid, and Medicare are possibly ax. Student loans are being axed. The Department of Education is perhaps being destroyed but in reality, it's likely just student loans which means less college funding for possibly my kids in the future without borrowing from a bank like Sofi so I better hope for low interest rates and that the banker thinks my kids are smart.


Edit: Company layoffs are everywhere except skilled blue-collar, and random oil rigs in Texas.
 

Bedinsis

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I did not say either of those things. I said you don't critically assess them, and you believe them.

Let me offer this comparison: a Catholic that criticizes church leaders for their behavior isn't any less Catholic. One can truly believe in Catholic doctrine, and follow the derived guidance for how to live their life, and still criticize priests and bishops for their actions without any change in beliefs.

You being critical of the behaviors of Democrats does not mean you aren't totally bought into their world view. You judge them for not meeting the same standards they claim to believe in. You criticize the people, sure, but you defend their projection of reality tooth and claw.
Define "world view". Both the Democrats and the Republicans are big tent parties, containing disparate views; claiming one's world view is contained entirely within one of them is then not meaningful. And you have called yourself cynical about politics; one possible view of cynicism is that the core of the parties is "whatever is likely to ensure a win in the election".
 

tstorm823

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... one possible view of cynicism is that the core of the parties is "whatever is likely to ensure a win in the election".
Which is why it's so obvious when an individual has tied their thinking to a party. It's pretty much impossible to organically agree with a political party all the time, especially one whose positions shift dramatically over time, but some people manage to be that chameleon.
 

Bedinsis

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Which is why it's so obvious when an individual has tied their thinking to a party. It's pretty much impossible to organically agree with a political party all the time, especially one whose positions shift dramatically over time, but some people manage to be that chameleon.
I fully acknowledge that there are people whose thinking ends and starts with "What does this entity think on the matter? I believe that.". I know I've behaved that way though I try not to. Stating it as "obvious" when someone is behaving that way I disagree with.
 

Seanchaidh

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Yeah that's one of the weirdest thing, there's literally nothing on earth Russia could have on Trump that would get him in trouble. Maybe he's worried they'd assassinate him or something?
Maybe he's just persuaded that Russia does not constitute a threat to anything he cares about unless they were to use nuclear weapons, but also isn't worth trying to surround and bully like neoconservatives and mainstream liberals seem obsessed with doing for whatever reason.
 

Agema

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Nothing was behind closed doors, it was all out in the open. What more transparency are you looking for?
The indictment says that Adams accepted a load of gifts without declaring them. I'm going to assume the DoJ got their facts right, because that's a pretty easy thing to check up. The bulk of the indictment suggests Adams was taking illegal campaign donations routed through middlemen to hide the donor, and the DoJ claim to have evidence that he was aware of the fact and soliciting them.
 

Hades

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Maybe he's just persuaded that Russia does not constitute a threat to anything he cares about unless they were to use nuclear weapons, but also isn't worth trying to surround and bully like neoconservatives and mainstream liberals seem obsessed with doing for whatever reason.
So in other words Trump is fine with Russia violently expanding into, and ethnically cleansing eastern Europe. The ''whatever reason'' is funny since the moment you look at what Russia does to neighbors that don't have protection against Russia is plenty of reason enough to keep it contained already.
 

tstorm823

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I fully acknowledge that there are people whose thinking ends and starts with "What does this entity think on the matter? I believe that.". I know I've behaved that way though I try not to. Stating it as "obvious" when someone is behaving that way I disagree with.
To circle back and give a proper answer to your previous post, I've got an example from earlier this week. Trump ordered out the remaining US Attorneys left from Biden's administration. Articles about it looked like this:
and then internet comments about it looked like this:

So we've got media headlines about Trump firing US Attorneys and a left-wing response about how corrupt and/or authoritarian that is, and if you read the articles they basically all admit this is perfectly normal. So a fictional argument might go basically like this:

Lefty: Trump is firing all the US attorneys and installing his own loyalists!
Me: Yes, and?
Lefty: They're overthrowing the government, they're fascists.
Me: This happens every administration. Democrats do it too.
Lefty: The Democrats are fascists too!

So that strawman I'm arguing against has criticized Democrats, sure. But what they haven't done is questioned the premise. In this moment, the idea that replacing the US Attorneys is malicious or illegal works toward the benefit of Democrats because Republicans are in power. Accepting the premise that this is a bad action still leads to a call to action against Republicans, and consequently for Democrats. It's not a long established worldview, no, it is subject to change, but people can still buy into that premise in the now.

The internet is full of left-wing people who think Democrats aren't good on healthcare, or minority rights, or Gaza, or any number of things, but even condemning Democrats as being insufficient in those areas is more often than not politically helpful for Democrats as it is emphatically in line with the premises that Democrats claim they care about. And for things like those, big consequential things, there's a likelihood that people actually care about those things independent of what party says what, but where it becomes obvious that someone is just parroting a party is when it's things that nobody has honestly put any thought into. Suddenly people have very strong opinions on tariffs, or USAID, and you can point out all sorts of things about the history of tariffs or USAID, but some people are going to be firm in their commitment that tariffs are terrible and USAID is good, even if that involves condemning some Democrats, because those are the premises that work against Republicans now. Those Redditors talking about replacing attorneys as a second coup or as weaponization of the Justice Department have absolutely never in their life even wondered whether US Attorneys change with each administration, and certainly don't have informed opinions about whether it's a good or a bad thing that they do, but the premise that it's a bad thing pushes in the direction they want to push, so they run with it.
 

Thaluikhain

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But the most likely explanation, that's super depressing, is that Trump really just admire Putin and just want... I dunno... to be his friend or something? And he's just doing whatever he think will please him. Russia did buy a bunch of right wing influence, so maybe Trump is just watching those thing constantly and he's convinced that Putin is really the good guy in all this and need all the support they can get.
He did cosy up to NK last time, IIRC.
 

Trunkage

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To circle back and give a proper answer to your previous post, I've got an example from earlier this week. Trump ordered out the remaining US Attorneys left from Biden's administration. Articles about it looked like this:
and then internet comments about it looked like this:

So we've got media headlines about Trump firing US Attorneys and a left-wing response about how corrupt and/or authoritarian that is, and if you read the articles they basically all admit this is perfectly normal. So a fictional argument might go basically like this:

Lefty: Trump is firing all the US attorneys and installing his own loyalists!
Me: Yes, and?
Lefty: They're overthrowing the government, they're fascists.
Me: This happens every administration. Democrats do it too.
Lefty: The Democrats are fascists too!

So that strawman I'm arguing against has criticized Democrats, sure. But what they haven't done is questioned the premise. In this moment, the idea that replacing the US Attorneys is malicious or illegal works toward the benefit of Democrats because Republicans are in power. Accepting the premise that this is a bad action still leads to a call to action against Republicans, and consequently for Democrats. It's not a long established worldview, no, it is subject to change, but people can still buy into that premise in the now.

The internet is full of left-wing people who think Democrats aren't good on healthcare, or minority rights, or Gaza, or any number of things, but even condemning Democrats as being insufficient in those areas is more often than not politically helpful for Democrats as it is emphatically in line with the premises that Democrats claim they care about. And for things like those, big consequential things, there's a likelihood that people actually care about those things independent of what party says what, but where it becomes obvious that someone is just parroting a party is when it's things that nobody has honestly put any thought into. Suddenly people have very strong opinions on tariffs, or USAID, and you can point out all sorts of things about the history of tariffs or USAID, but some people are going to be firm in their commitment that tariffs are terrible and USAID is good, even if that involves condemning some Democrats, because those are the premises that work against Republicans now. Those Redditors talking about replacing attorneys as a second coup or as weaponization of the Justice Department have absolutely never in their life even wondered whether US Attorneys change with each administration, and certainly don't have informed opinions about whether it's a good or a bad thing that they do, but the premise that it's a bad thing pushes in the direction they want to push, so they run with it.
We had strong opinions about Tariffs and USAID beforehand. You just weren't listening

Eg. USAID has been used by the CIA to topple governments. It's pretty corrupt and needed to change. Its the literal deep state bullshit MAGA is worried about.

But was ANY of this the reason why it's going down? No, it's woke apparently. So, now we will get an agency that will just topple governments and not at least do a bit of normal humanitarian stuff to offset this. Because Elon is looking for the wrong problems... or possibly, this was the intention all along.

You personally just never cared about the government toppling stuff. So it never registered for that THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT THE WHOLE TIME