Ukraine

[Agema]

Oh, that shouting match last night probably put a lid on that regardless.

I get the feeling the lid was shut a long, long time ago.

The only "deal" being worked on here is how best to sell the volte face into backing Russia to the US public. The strategy seems to be to blame Ukraine: first offer it a humiliating and appalling deal it would struggle to accept, then when Ukraine tries to work with it anyway, set up a diplomatic disaster.

 

[Chimpzy]

I get the feeling the lid was shut a long, long time ago.

The only "deal" being worked on here is how best to sell the volte face into backing Russia to the US public. The strategy seems to be to blame Ukraine: first offer it a humiliating and appalling deal it would struggle to accept, then when Ukraine tries to work with it anyway, set up a diplomatic disaster.

Probably, yes. Classic Krasnov. I wonder how far it'll go. Supplies? Arms? Troops? Not really discounting anything.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Is this some kind of robotic response to my repetition of Silvanus's phrase 'prevailing political orthodoxy'? What's going on here? Honestly, what the fuck are you talking about? And why do you think I should want to go to Russia when I say, about the matters we're comparing it on, that it is much like the United States?

"What I am talking about" is that, if you think that Russia and the US share much in the way of political similarity then you don't really seem to understand Russia at all, and it might help to actually engage to some extent with the real country that actually exists. Again, the barrier to information is virtually non-existent. You can get on a plane, fly to Russia and find out first hand what it is like.

You are not depoliticized, you just don't like having political responsibility. Those are not the same thing.

 

[Hades]

So aside from Hungary the western world unanimously condemned Trump for acting like a freak and randomly picking a fight with Zelensky. But I'm curious about what the reaction of the Americans themselves are, be it either through their media, opinion polls or sentiments online or on the street?

 

[meiam]

So aside from Hungary the western world unanimously condemned Trump for acting like a freak and randomly picking a fight with Zelensky. But I'm curious about what the reaction of the Americans themselves are, be it either through their media, opinion polls or sentiments online or on the street?

I'm guessing about 2/3 would be "what's a Ukraine?".

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

So aside from Hungary the western world unanimously condemned Trump for acting like a freak and randomly picking a fight with Zelensky. But I'm curious about what the reaction of the Americans themselves are, be it either through their media, opinion polls or sentiments online or on the street?

I've already seen someone compare supporting Ukraine to being mired in Vietnam. Republicans, the stalwart defenders of democracy the world over....

 

[Agema]

I've already seen someone compare supporting Ukraine to being mired in Vietnam. Republicans, the stalwart defenders of democracy the world over....

Are they also the sort of person who argues that the USA would have won if only the weakling lefties hadn't undermined morale and the politicians hadn't given up?

 

[Hades]

How JD Vance emerged as the chief saboteur of the transatlantic alliance

Vance snaked his way in first to the row between Trump and Zelenskyy, his second intrusion this month after Munich

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chimpzy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/02/28/trump-presidency-news/#link-U4SPRIDWBNBPZBXDLEHMNTMD7E

That took longer than expected

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Are they also the sort of person who argues that the USA would have won if only the weakling lefties hadn't undermined morale and the politicians hadn't given up?

Yep.

 

[Silvanus]

There's two possibilities.

One, that it was a manufactured diplomatic incident, to justify the withdrawal of American support that Trump wanted to pursue anyway. A set-up, ambush, whatever.

Two, that it wasn't. Which would mean that the course of the war, Eastern European sovereignty, and tens or hundreds of thousands of lives are being decided by the individual personalities of three or four people. Not by political platforms, national interests, international alliances, laws... but by one or two people feeling smug & argumentative and getting testy.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Trump was talking shit when he said that Zelensky wasn't "showing enough gratitude" to the United States. What Trump wanted was for Zelensky to bend a knee to him, to beg him for help, to give him whatever he asked for so that he could call himself "the best deal-maker". When that didn't happen, Trump reacted the same way he always does when he's kept from what he wants- like a whiny, tantrum-throwing child.